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Heljan Beyer garratt


Hugh Flynn
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One of the problems with producing scale model locomotives and coaches is trainset curves. There are probably many hundreds of modellers using them for convenience and space reasons, but they are undoubtedly holding the hobby back at this stage of the game. If everyone moved out a little and adopted something like 24" radius minimum, it would at least give manufacturers of RTR and kits a bit more leeway. Designing a Beyer-Garratt to negotiate trainset curves must have been a challenge to say the least.

Coachmann is on the right track (pardon the pun, it was deliberate).  The fact that most model locomotives will negotiate these curves is a wonder in itself.  With a long articulated locomotive your asking for one power unit to curve one way and the other to do the opposite.  In the real world there have been derailments where the transition (straight track) between two opposing curves wasn't long enough.  In one case there were two derailments 12 months apart with the same type of vehicle, where the wagon was initially blamed.  Then the penny dropped and it was realised that the track was non compliant.  With these loco's you might need to have some 'route restrictions' ie routes where the loco doesn't go.  Avoiding reverse curves etc. 

 

Don't expect the impossible from the loco.

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I've cancelled my order too, purely for the fact that I won't have the time to run it and it's a big investment to have just sitting around in it's box.

Interesting point.Another issue concerning me is that it does not take kindly to being "on and off" the track.Chris Leigh in his Model Rail review reckons that it's really best to keep it permanently on the rails as over handling exposes its fragility. A wrestle here between desire and common sense,I think !

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I've returned four BGs to Hattons for QC issues of one type or another and my current engine is not perfect but acceptable providing I can get replacement steps and sanding pipework. The thing is they all derail on S bends consisting of  a pair of Hornby R608s 3rd radius curves with a straight in between. The leading set of driving wheels derail both on my layout and on a test track I set up to see what's wrong. None of my other over eighty engines derail including fine scale and 10 coupled. Any ideas anyone? 

 

The fist thing is don't blame the loco, your trying to get a very long loco (the longest to run in the U.K.) to go around a curve of less that 24". Why not relay the reverse curve with a length of flex track and smooth out the curve? As you have mentioned you have to have a short section of straight track between the two curves. 

This loco is not like any other loco. The pivot points are not like a Diesel  that are quit close together, nor a ten coupled loco that is quit short.

The real thing would have been pushed to go around a 4 1/2 chain rad. curve (in 4mm approx. 48") and that would have been at dead slow.

 

OzzyO.

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Thanks for the suggestion chaps - but the short straight isn't that short so the engine is not bending both ways at once and my Kitmaster version running on Lima Crab underpinnings has no problem at all. The Kitmaster is very similar in dimensions to Hatton's version.  I've investigated further and built a dummy centre boiler section thus avoiding the magnetic pivots of the original. It seems to cope well when pushed manually. Furthermore some of my curves are 4ft radius and two of the earlier engines suffered pony truck derailing on these long curves. I'll look at the back to back, but what is essentially a 2 6 0 shouldn't derail on 3rd radius - Hattons say they should cope with 2nd radius and have been very helpful - possibly the best customer service I have experienced in decades. If it is the back to back I don't fancy the job to say the least!   

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Interesting point.Another issue concerning me is that it does not take kindly to being "on and off" the track.Chris Leigh in his Model Rail review reckons that it's really best to keep it permanently on the rails as over handling exposes its fragility. A wrestle here between desire and common sense,I think !

 

.....just needs Peco to introduce a longer "loco lift" specifically for the Beyer Garratt (and, hopefully, for American Mallets etc,)

 

My local modelshop advised that his Peco representative is aware of the need for a longer "loco lift" but at the moment the only solution offered was cobbling together (with difficulty) a longer lift using two of the current lifts.....

 

Keith

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 ...the engine is not bending both ways at once and my Kitmaster version running on Lima Crab underpinnings has no problem at all. The Kitmaster is very similar in dimensions to Hatton's version.  I've investigated further and built a dummy centre boiler section thus avoiding the magnetic pivots of the original. It seems to cope well when pushed manually...

 

The track curvature is just one way it has to bend (yaw), there's pitch and roll to take into account also. The magnetic hinges are unlikely to significantly limit pitching, thanks to the leverage of the length of each engine unit; but they might limit the ability of one engine unit to roll with respect to another. Weakening the magnetic clamping might do it if the two engine units are trouble free with non-magnetic hinging.

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I thought these recent releases were to be without pony wheel brakes?
Must have misread it somewhere.

Edit:- no I didn't

 

Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 loco 47995 in BR number on cabsides with plain tanks, Revolving coal bunker and no pony wheel brake. 9/4/49 - 4/11/50. Lightly weathered. With 8-pin DCC socket and 2 motors.

 

 

Edited by Free At Last
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I thought these recent releases were to be without pony wheel brakes?

Must have misread it somewhere.

 

Edit:- no I didn't

 

 

The bogie brakes were removed in early LMS days. Something has gone awry with anglo-chinese communication!

Attention to detail is again failing Heljan, but lets hope the build/finish quality is better than the first batch

 

Tony

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.....just needs Peco to introduce a longer "loco lift" specifically for the Beyer Garratt (and, hopefully, for American Mallets etc,)

 

My local modelshop advised that his Peco representative is aware of the need for a longer "loco lift" but at the moment the only solution offered was cobbling together (with difficulty) a longer lift using two of the current lifts.....

 

Keith

 

 

You could use the DCC concepts MPD lifts.

 

http://www.ehattons.com/59749/DCC_Concepts_MPD_360_360mm_OO_gauge_loco_storage_box_drive_on_off/StockDetail.aspx

 

http://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/search/mpd360-motive-power-depot---small.aspx

 

OK Very expensive, but if the loco is £199 whats £37.05 to keep it safe and be able to just drive it straight on/off the track?

Thats the small one pictured in the links, might possibly need to go to the medium size, I'm sure hattons would see if it would fit though.

 

Only a thought!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited by traction
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I agree and proved it with the dummy boiler section. I suggested to Hatton's that rounding off the tops of the pivots may help but a simple ball and socket would suffice without the magnetics. I've relaid a section of my foam underlay track using a flat plate for reference to ensure that curves are aligned precisely with the plane of neighbouring sections of tracks. What I observed on curves was that the leading driving wheels tilted up slightly clear of the track and ran over the edge on curves. Although this also occurred to a degree on straights the wheels dropped back in place on straights. The need for precision is surprising and I would suggest that foam underlay is best avoided - but cork should be okay.

 

Mind you my other Beyer Garratt and all the other engines including finescale rattle through without any such problems.

 

My next problem is a section of track in a  long tunnel behind a domestic water tank with little access.....!!

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I have just sent them an email requesting a change to Heljan 266205 Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 47967 (on cab) BR black with "BRITISH RAILWAYS" lettering 1948-49. Pristine condition as I can weather it my self and it will will still suit my layout as an earlier version.

 

Peter

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Seems like the heavily weathered BR versions are coming in two or more batches as Hattons has advised me that my order for Heljan 266208 - heavily weathered BR 47996 now has a June delivery date. I've seen on the new releases on their site today, that three of the rotating bunker versions have arrived, one in LMS and 2 BR

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amdaley, on 30 Apr 2014 - 14:06, said:

 

I am waiting for the same model.

With seven more versions still to come and stocks of more than ten still showing for the first two I hope they are selling well enough for the order to be completed.

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