Heljan Beyer garratt

[Hastings Thumper]

I politely asked the chap on the Heljan stand at Warley if he viewed the number of motor failures discussed here as an issue.

 

I was curtly informed that he did not read RMWeb (or it's Danish equivalent) and therefore knew nothing of the reported problems.

 

Sam

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

I would expect that Heljan do know all about the motor failures. Perhaps you just asked the wrong question. I suggest that if you had asked about the motor failures and not mentioned RMWeb, then he could not have used the irelevant excuse that he did not read RMweb.

[Colin_McLeod]

.... RMWeb (or it's Danish equivalent)....

 

Sam

 

Try This: http://baneforum.dk/   

 

 

There is even mention of RMweb:

 

http://baneforum.dk/search.php?keywords=rmweb

Edited November 24, 2014 by Colin_McLeod

[Hastings Thumper]

I did ask about motor failures first.  When he said he didn't know anything about them I then mentioned that a number had been reported here.  It was towards the end of the day on Saturday so maybe the poor guy had his fill of probing questions by then.  I walked away with a feeling that I'd (unintentionally) touched a nerve though. 

 

It was a genuine enquiry on my part as I have a BG with probably only about 30 mins running time on it.  If I'm feeling brave at the weekend I'll let it have another run.

[bigherb]

My little motors arrived today. They fit nicely although the shaft may be a tad too long. Tested the motors out of the loco, start up smoothly and seem to have plenty of torque. Also looks like it may be a nice motor to fit high up in a boiler.

 

 

 

[Brian Hawkins]

I firmly believe Heljan/Hattons should recall all these BG's and remotor them, no way should you have to do this yourself, they cost £200 for god's sake, Hattons are fully aware of the motor problem and should act NOW ! As I have posted earlier on this thread, I have purchased all twelve of these Garratts in good faith and obviously at great expence to myself and have suffered motor failure on seven occasions, I still have to return one for replacement but I'm in no hurry as I'm sure the new replacement will fail within hours, it has now become blatenly obvious to all of us who own these models that the continuing problems are with the motors, I've shown Heljan/Hattons my support on their venture and now its their turn to show us some positive action in sorting this unsatisfactory matter asap, rant over for the time being.

[JSpencer]

I firmly believe Heljan/Hattons should recall all these BG's and remotor them, no way should you have to do this yourself, they cost £200 for god's sake, Hattons are fully aware of the motor problem and should act NOW ! As I have posted earlier on this thread, I have purchased all twelve of these Garratts in good faith and obviously at great expence to myself and have suffered motor failure on seven occasions, I still have to return one for replacement but I'm in no hurry as I'm sure the new replacement will fail within hours, it has now become blatenly obvious to all of us who own these models that the continuing problems are with the motors, I've shown Heljan/Hattons my support on their venture and now its their turn to show us some positive action in sorting this unsatisfactory matter asap, rant over for the time being.

Well if the motors are all faulty, I would be just happy to assured that if they do blow, then I receive a pair of new ones with flywheel and gear fitted.

I cannot bare posting back a what is otherwise a perfect loco, knowing the return may have damage elsewhere!

Edited November 25, 2014 by JSpencer

[Grovenor]

 

My little motors arrived today. They fit nicely although the shaft may be a tad too long. Tested the motors out of the loco, start up smoothly and seem to have plenty of torque.

Same here, I checked the motors with a 9V battery and they seem to run OK and gripping the shaft when running the torque, as big herb says, seems OK. They are now in the spares box as my originals have not yet failed.

 

then I receive a pair of new ones with flywheel and gear fitted.

Flywheels yes, but there are no gears attached the connection to the gear is via a universal joint, see big herb's photo above.

 

 

I firmly believe Heljan/Hattons should recall all these BG's and remotor them, no way should you have to do this yourself, they cost £200 for god's sake, Hattons are fully aware of the motor problem and should act NOW ! As I have posted earlier on this thread, I have purchased all twelve of these Garratts in good faith and obviously at great expence to myself and have suffered motor failure on seven occasions, I still have to return one for replacement but I'm in no hurry as I'm sure the new replacement will fail within hours, it has now become blatenly obvious to all of us who own these models that the continuing problems are with the motors, I've shown Heljan/Hattons my support on their venture and now its their turn to show us some positive action in sorting this unsatisfactory matter asap, rant over for the time being.

Brian,

Have you said this to Hattons? And if so what was the response? If not, why not? You must be their best customer for these locos. (answers are not compulsory!).

 

Regards

Keith

[Brian Hawkins]

Hello Keith,

No, but I will do, I hope to make a visit in the next few weeks, work permitting, I'm so frustrated with this problem that it is starting to get to me, to be fair with Hattons, they have been superb with the replacements, but, I'm so frustrated with my many visits over the last 6 months or so only to return home and after a few hours of running in  I find myself back to square one again, if I had only brought one Garratt I would have asked for a full refund and left it at that, but, no, I had to go for it big time and now i'm paying the price, I still believe the actual model is superb but as someone on this thread earlier posted Heljan obviously did not test these models sufficiently before release, I and everyone on this forum has a love for model railways and it is a hobby that should be enjoyed and I'm afraid to say that I'm getting no enjoyment out of the hobby at the moment.

I will obviously report back on this thread how I get on with my next visit to Hattons.

[amdaley]

I got notice of my refund this evening.

Got my return postage as well but only after asking for it.

I was sorry to see it go back after waiting three years for it.

 

I would have taken a replacement but after reading on here that it wasn't a once off I just couldn't go through having to send parcels back to Liverpool every couple of weeks.

I told Hattons this was the reason for asking for a refund.

A sad end to my ownership of a BG. 

[Ian Hargrave]

Hello Keith,

No, but I will do, I hope to make a visit in the next few weeks, work permitting, I'm so frustrated with this problem that it is starting to get to me, to be fair with Hattons, they have been superb with the replacements, but, I'm so frustrated with my many visits over the last 6 months or so only to return home and after a few hours of running in  I find myself back to square one again, if I had only brought one Garratt I would have asked for a full refund and left it at that, but, no, I had to go for it big time and now i'm paying the price, I still believe the actual model is superb but as someone on this thread earlier posted Heljan obviously did not test these models sufficiently before release, I and everyone on this forum has a love for model railways and it is a hobby that should be enjoyed and I'm afraid to say that I'm getting no enjoyment out of the hobby at the moment.

I will obviously report back on this thread how I get on with my next visit to Hattons.[/quote

If you have acces to a printer take with you copies of some of these posts.What more does it take to motivate Hattons to remotor the lot ?

[250BOB]

I wonder what % of BG's are failing due to the motor burn outs......judging by the posts on this thread.....it is steadily growing.

 

But it is likely that the only people to post are those with negative experiences, and in the greater scheme of things, it might not yet be great enough for Hattons / Heljan to react in the appropriate manner.

 

It is very disappointing to hear of the failures, and very disheartening for the owners of such beautiful models.

 

I live in fear of mine giving up the ghost at any moment........but it still performs impeccably (schhhhh).  Running for hours at a time at a scale 10-15mph. ( 3 hours this afternoon again - non stop)

 

This all very bad for Heljan, and I dare say that Hattons are just sitting there and replacing faulty models, probably at no cost to themselves.............I remember my two motor burn outs with my Heljan Clayton, eventually cured with the addition of a Mashima motor

[lee74clarke]

I think I have been hit by the curse of the Garratt. Having had the model several months (one of those later weathered jobs) it has run beautifully without any hiccups, including several hours on Tony Wright's Little Bytham layout, until tonight when is was as dead as the proverbial.

Ran it Sunday for half an hour or so with no problems, and tonight it's kaput.

Does that sound familiar to anyone? If I get this thing back to Hattons, are they replacing the whole model, or carrying out repairs if it's the motor issue?

I think it's an amazing model, at least when it's running and I really want to support Hattons on this, but at two hundred quid, I am a bit peeved.

I get the impression that amended models are still going belly up further down the line?

[250BOB]

I think I have been hit by the curse of the Garratt. Having had the model several months (one of those later weathered jobs) it has run beautifully without any hiccups, including several hours on Tony Wright's Little Bytham layout, until tonight when is was as dead as the proverbial.

Ran it Sunday for half an hour or so with no problems, and tonight it's kaput.

Does that sound familiar to anyone? If I get this thing back to Hattons, are they replacing the whole model, or carrying out repairs if it's the motor issue?

I think it's an amazing model, at least when it's running and I really want to support Hattons on this, but at two hundred quid, I am a bit peeved.

I get the impression that amended models are still going belly up further down the line?

 

Thanks for that Lee...................mine is one of those later heavier weathered ones too, 47996....................its like its definitley going to fail...just a case of when...?????

[lee74clarke]

Thanks for that Lee...................mine is one of those later heavier weathered ones too, 47996....................its like its definitley going to

fail...just a case of when...?????

I know, it has felt like that hasn't it, since we started hearing the bad reports?

After a fair amount of running time, I thought I had a decent one.

Has anyone had a Garratt repaired, only to have the thing go wrong again?

As I say, I really want this model to be a success and to carry on supporting Hattons, but I am in two minds whether to ask for a repair or a refund.

Made me think again about a Heljan O2, but then surely they can't let rogues slip through the net again?

[Ian Hargrave]

I know, it has felt like that hasn't it, since we started hearing the bad reports?

After a fair amount of running time, I thought I had a decent one.

Has anyone had a Garratt repaired, only to have the thing go wrong again?

As I say, I really want this model to be a success and to carry on supporting Hattons, but I am in two minds whether to ask for a repair or a refund.

Made me think again about a Heljan O2, but then surely they can't let rogues slip through the net again?

I'm afraid Heljan has "form" with motor problems.Remember the disaster with the Clayton diesels ? So yes,it could happen again,sorry to say.

[lee74clarke]

I'm afraid Heljan has "form" with motor problems.Remember the disaster with the Clayton diesels ? So yes,it could happen again,sorry to say.

I know, caught out on the Clayton's as well! Wouldn't you think once bitten and all that?

Anyway, not had chance to contact Hattons today, and after having another quick read of certain parts of this thread, I had an ' I wonder' moment. Unpacked the Garratt, whacked it on my test track after checking front & rear valve gear for any locked joints (nothing obvious, apart from lots of fiddlers elbow joints) and it briefly lurched back into life, on front motor only.

After getting a bit of a warm motor niff, I quickly killed the power, but that looks like the problem.

For two hundred quid I don't aim to investigate any further, so we'll see what Hattons have to say tomorrow.

Apologies if anyone heard my blue language.......

On the plus side, managed to get one of my old A2/3's back to life.

Every cloud and all that. Those Millholme Pacifics don't seem such a pile after all.

[trw1089]

Well, my sweet running Garratt was still doing rounds of my layout this morning with 45 minerals in tow when the front engine unit came to an abrupt halt.  Oh no says I, don't tell me the curse of the Heljan motor failure has struck.  The first thing done was to cut the power (the back engine unit was spinning considerably) then put it in reverse.  The front engine unit started moving again, so the motor was still working.  I then checked it again in forward and as it went around a right hand curve (one of the tightest on the layout), the front engine unit stopped again.  OK, so repeatable means that it is likely to be mechanical.  I then lifted it onto a foam cradle in the stopped position and it was definitely a bind in the motion, as the wheels themselves were locked.  It turned out that the front driver crankpin had jammed against the back of the crosshead on the left hand side.  This is identical to the problems I have had with two Hornby Black 5s.  I levered out the back of the crosshead and slidebars slightly and all was good.  I also checked the rear driving unit and could see that if going tight curves, the same thing could happen, but it might be that this would happen only if it was leading (the trailing engine unit doesn't seem to get the same amount of deviation).  

 

I wonder therefore whether this bind might be the cause of some or all of the motor failures noted.  It is certainly something that could happen relatively randomly depending on how the loco is running and the layout itself (curvature).  Also, if the loco was being run fast or left in the bind for a little, these both might cause the motor itself to fail (if it gets hot, soldered joints or even windings may melt or be compromised).  I would therefore strongly advise that you check your locos to see how the crosshead and slidebars are mounted, and with a little gentle pressure, lever the ends outward slightly.  This is a rather common failure on scale locomotives, because the clearances allowed for on driving wheels to go around tight corners and oversized model components compared to full size means that tolerances between the outside of the crankpin and the back side of the crosshead are always tight.  I have seen this on kit built and brass locomotives, in addition to the aforementioned Black 5s. Whether you pay 20, 200 or 2000 quid for a loco doesn't matter.

 

Now this is only one sample that I have checked, but it may well indicate what the problem is and hopefully this info will help others with theirs.  I would be very interested if anyone else could verify it.

 

Just to reiterate, if you loco stops running on one engine unit, cut the power immediately, then reverse the direction and see if it moves under a little power.  If it does, the motor is OK and the motion will need adjusting.  If not, the motor may have been damaged.  Regardless, I would adjust the clearance between the crankpins on the front drivers and the back of the crosshead on both engine units.  Be gentle though, this is a delicate loco.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

Tony

[Peter Beckett]

Hi Tony,

I am glad that you have found the cause for your motor failure but in my case (I wonder therefore whether this bind might be the cause of some or all of the motor failures noted.) not the case as the mechanism was not binding and running perfectly. I am still inclined to think that mass production and not high quality in the motor department has a lot to do with the problem. This is based on my working with electric motors both AC and DC, high and low voltages over a 40 year period. (I have been known to be wrong about most things, though  )

 

Cheers

(from a Mexican)

 

Peter  

[faulcon1]

I too have a BG and no problems yet but if I do have problems then back to the manufacturer it goes. I wouldn't be taking it apart as the manufacturer could say my unqualified attempts to fix the problem have rendered the warranty given by them (Heljan) null and void.

I'm surprised at the many on here who attempt to fix the loco themselves.

I've only had one other loco from Heljan which didn't work properly and that was Lion and I sent it to Denmark and they fixed it free of charge and it's been right ever since.

So if my BG conks out I'll send it to Heljan in Denmark as Hattons is just the retailer and any faults in the loco are Heljans responsibility not Hattons.

Also the possible binding valve gear is a thing to watch out for and could save a headache or two.  

[cctransuk]

So if my BG conks out I'll send it to Heljan in Denmark as Hattons is just the retailer and any faults in the loco are Heljans responsibility not Hattons.

 

Not so - the legal contract of sale is between you and Hattons; where Hattons got the BG from is irrelevant.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Prometheus]

Try This: http://baneforum.dk/   

 

 

There is even mention of RMweb:

 

http://baneforum.dk/search.php?keywords=rmweb

 

There are some wonderful Google-driven Danish to English translations on that forum: this one is completely beyond me though 'The ladies Englishmen do much in the exhibition installations - both large and small '.

 

Tony

[trw1089]

I'm surprised at the many on here who attempt to fix the loco themselves.

 

I'm not sure why you are surprised, its something we used to do in model railways all the time, it just seems people's expectations to have everything running perfectly all the time mean that they will send it back rather than figure out whether it is something they themselves can rectify.  If I had to send back all of the locos and rollingstock that had failed over my 30 or so years in the hobby, I wouldn't have much left to run and I know I would be waiting forever for some of them to come back.  

 

I have repaired all types of locos and rollingstock and if something goes wrong I will always try to fix it myself, because that way I learn what has caused the problem and can try to rectify it myself if it happens again.  Perhaps, along with scratchbuilding and kit building, attitudes are changing in this hobby, though I agree, if there is a manufacturing fault then it would be nice if the manufacturers addressed it.  Again, it doesn't happen overnight.  I remember the Life Like Proto 2000 US prototype locos where the drive axles split and would cause the mechanism to bind.  It took nearly 10 years to resolve that fault and I am still waiting on replacement axles.

 

Peter, I don't disagree with you on the motor front, they must be a fairly weak component to not handle a bit of higher load under binding conditions or other factors, so if it is that weak, then it could fail under a variety of conditions, but my post was simply my observations of what occurred on mine and perhaps extrapolating that out further than my own is not realistic.  It's just that the symptoms seemed to replicate many of the failures noted on here and the cause, once identified on mine, was an easy fix and may save others considerable anxiety.

 

Cheers

Tony

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I'm not sure why you are surprised, its something we used to do in model railways all the time, it just seems people's expectations to have everything running perfectly all the time mean that they will send it back rather than figure out whether it is something they themselves can rectify.  If I had to send back all of the locos and rollingstock that had failed over my 30 or so years in the hobby, I wouldn't have much left to run and I know I would be waiting forever for some of them to come back.  

 

I have repaired all types of locos and rollingstock and if something goes wrong I will always try to fix it myself, because that way I learn what has caused the problem and can try to rectify it myself if it happens again...

In support of which, some of us positively enjoy a little prodding about in a small mechanism to diagnose and fix problems, such that it constitutes a fun part of the hobby. With past experience of building the running gear for 4mm models from kit and scratch parts - at a cost which allowing for inflation would be much larger than purchasing equivalent current RTR - it is typically a whole lot easier persuading a recalcitrant RTR mechanism to run well, than having to build it from kit parts and then get it running sweetly. This actually counts as relaxation...

[Colin_McLeod]

A minor repair can be much less hassle than sending the item back.