Heljan Beyer garratt

[Downer]

I just have to ask - how long is the box?

[Prometheus]

This is frankly more than a little disappointing. Mine will be returned for a replacement on Monday morning as a number of parts are missing [and not in the packaging]. Returning this parcel will be expensive also, I have asked for a refund.

 

Otherwise, the model ran very smoothly and was really impressive. It's such a shame that this has happened as the quickest of lookovers would have seen that parts were missing [something which should have fitted into a small hole on the left hand side of the smoke box and a part which should have been attached to the outside of the triangular bracket situated half way along the bottom of the footplate on the right hand side].

 

Hattons are to be commended for commissioning this remarkable model but I'd be less than honest if I said that I wasn't expecting to find some defects with the replacement [given earlier comments here]. I really do hope that I'm wrong.

 

Tony

[neal]

About 400mm

 

N

Edited March 1, 2014 by neal

[Garethp8873]

For 1 year, 4 months and 8 days I have awaited the release of this loco and I can certainly say that the wait was well worth it!! Very impressed with the loco in general. Only slight problems were having to bend one of the sandpipes back into place and the other being the back pony wheel derailing now and again. Bar that I am very pleased with it!! For Heljan's first attempt at recreating a British steam engine in OO scale, they have certainly achieved what they set out to accomplish!! Think I will be ordering their Tango and GWR 1366 at somepoint...

[7013]

Interesting so far, it seems that it is pot luck whether you will get a good or bad one. One thing that is unacceptable is a model that comes with parts missing and not in the box. Much as I am looking forward to the Garratt if it is a ropey one I will be wanting any replacement inspected before despatch.

[Ian Hargrave]

Interesting so far, it seems that it is pot luck whether you will get a good or bad one. One thing that is unacceptable is a model that comes with parts missing and not in the box. Much as I am looking forward to the Garratt if it is a ropey one I will be wanting any replacement inspected before despatch.

Indeed,a good point.Why should not ANY model,replacement or otherwise,be inspected before despatch to the customer ? Or is this expecting too much ?

[Prometheus]

I have to say that I'm impressed. Less than an hour after e-mailing Hattons about the return, I was sent a collect+ postage label.

 

Tony

[steve45]

Hat tons are excellent on returns, I've sent 2 engines back in the past - no problem

[Stevelewis]

Hat tons are excellent on returns, I've sent 2 engines back in the past - no problem

Fully  agree  I buy  from  hattons   on  a  very  regular  basis,  I dare not  add up   my invoice  totals!!  inevitably there  is  the  odd item which proves be faulty,  I  have NEVER had  any problems  returning them and  getting  an immediate refund + refunded postage,

 

Only  this  week  I returned a Faulty  USA outline N gauge  loco, It was posted  late on Wednesday by 2nd class post, By 10-30 AM on  Friday (yesterday)  I recvd a confirmation email  that  the  refund  had  been processed to my credit card.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Stevelewis

[Oldddudders]

Indeed,a good point.Why should not ANY model,replacement or otherwise,be inspected before despatch to the customer ? Or is this expecting too much ?

I think many customers would want exactly the opposite, actually. A sealed box, factory fresh, is as "new" as you can get it. Even getting some locos and stock out of the packaging, let alone replacing it, can cause minor damage. The shop risks actually causing damage, so is by no means certain to want to do this, anyway. Quality control is the responsibility of the manufacturer, not the shop.

[250BOB]

Hat tons are excellent on returns, I've sent 2 engines back in the past - no problem

 

But with all the recent Bachmann, Hornby and now Heljan issues.........returns just might start to become a problem for Hattons, because of the volume involved (the costs).??

Edited March 1, 2014 by 250BOB

[250BOB]

I think many customers would want exactly the opposite, actually. A sealed box, factory fresh, is as "new" as you can get it. Even getting some locos and stock out of the packaging, let alone replacing it, can cause minor damage. The shop risks actually causing damage, so is by no means certain to want to do this, anyway. Quality control is the responsibility of the manufacturer, not the shop.

But who is footing the postage costs for returns etc.,  I think perhaps most people would prefer it thoroughly checked before despatch....although you are right to say it is the manufacturers responsibility. 

Can the likes of Hattons send the likes of Bachmann etc., a bill for unnecessary postage costs incurred I wonder.??

 

Although how many locos do hattons despatch daily........a quick five minute quick check of each loco.....say they are despatching 50 locos a day.?

 

That alone is going to take an extra person to be employed to do this every day.......thats quite a cost.

Edited March 1, 2014 by 250BOB

[7013]

Indeed QC is the responsibility of the manufacturer and that is something for Hattons not the purchaser to worry about. The responsibility for ensuring the customer gets a decent model ultimately lays with the seller I.e.Hattons. It would probably mean using an employee to check every model being despatched. Under the sale of goods act the buyer can llegitimately request postage back which if everyone pushed for it may be worth (cheaper) inspecting every model before despatch. However all that said I personally would only ask for a replacement to be checked and hope that when mine does arrive in May Hattons will have sorted out any quality issues with a Heljan.

The model itself sounds as if it has spectacular strength., and a good 'un is worth every penny of the £200

[Brian Hawkins]

I must point out 7013 that the price is actually £199, I know its only a quid but, it don't half make me feel like ive got a bit of a bargain !

Edited March 1, 2014 by Brian Hawkins

[steve45]

Indeed QC is the responsibility of the manufacturer and that is something for Hattons not the purchaser to worry about. The responsibility for ensuring the customer gets a decent model ultimately lays with the seller I.e.Hattons. It would probably mean using an employee to check every model being despatched. Under the sale of goods act the buyer can llegitimately request postage back which if everyone pushed for it may be worth (cheaper) inspecting every model before despatch. However all that said I personally would only ask for a replacement to be checked and hope that when mine does arrive in May Hattons will have sorted out any quality issues with a Heljan.

The model itself sounds as if it has spectacular strength., and a good 'un is worth every penny of the £200

Hi 7013, on both occasions I returned a loco to Hattons they paid for the postage without my asking them to, its part of their normal service 

[JSpencer]

Interesting that they changed their packaging recently. For the worse it seems....

Actually it is for the better. The new vacccuum formed wrap around inner cases are much more solid than those of 2 years. I went through 6 of the original baby deltics before finally getting one intact. In fact for the sixth one, I made 800 mile round trip to collect it which is the only reason why it is intact.

The packaging on the new early baby deltic is much more solid and holds the model very secure. It also seems to have been inspired by ladies panty towels as the packaging even now has wings!

 

Admittedly I had only one issue if we go back to the days when the entire packaging was sponge (snapped buffer beam on Falcon), which theoretically would stop shock waves from reaching the model if dropped, however it will equally distort if suddenly loaded which may brake parts through sharp loading forces on tiny areas.

 

I wait my Jasper Garret which is BR heavily weathered rotating bunker version, to arrive. But agree the stress or worry about it arriving in pieces is a major concern.

Edited March 1, 2014 by JSpencer

[250BOB]

Hi 7013, on both occasions I returned a loco to Hattons they paid for the postage without my asking them to, its part of their normal service 

 

So Hattons pay for three lots of postage then....????

1. First despatch

2. Return postage

3. Replacement despatch.

 

Doesnt sound much for one event...................but when that starts to multiply, its not long before there is a problem.

 

My family business spends £1000 a month with a courier......if half those items were retuned for replacement, it would double to £2000

 

Now imagine if your postage costs are initially considerably more like Hattons are........then the increase in cost for returns and replacements begins to get out of hand and unsustainable.

[steve45]

So Hattons pay for three lots of postage then....????

1. First despatch

2. Return postage

3. Replacement despatch.

 

Doesnt sound much for one event...................but when that starts to multiply, its not long before there is a problem.

 

My family business spends £1000 a month with a courier......if half those items were retuned for replacement, it would double to £2000

 

Now imagine if your postage costs are initially considerably more like Hattons are........then the increase in cost for returns and replacements begins to get out of hand and unsustainable.

Yes you only pay postage on the initial supply, they pay for return of faulty item and re-delivery of replacement. Excellent in my opinion. They send through a collect + label to your email address, and you take it to your local collection point, a local Spar in my case and they give you a receipt as proof of postage - Simples

[brian777999]

In view of the delicate and complicated nature of this loco then Hattons might consider extra wrapping/packing for this item. It might save them money in the long run and avoid disappointed cutomers.

[Stevelewis]

In view of the delicate and complicated nature of this loco then Hattons might consider extra wrapping/packing for this item. It might save them money in the long run and avoid disappointed cutomers.

I feel  HATTONS  packing  is  always  first  class,  bubble  wrap  and  'sealed air' packs to take up unused space in the carton, I have purchased several 0n30 locos recently from them which in size  and 'fragility'  probably rate the  same  as the Garratt which have arrived with me  unscathed.

 

I feeel that  the reported  damage problems  are  more likelty to have occured  in the locos 'boxing' phase at the point of manufacture, rather in shipment.      

[Prometheus]

Agreed - mine were definitely production / boxing problems, not postal damage. The box itself was first class and the absence of missing parts indicates from where the issue originated. I do have real sympathy for retailers in situations like this.

 

With regard to earlier reference to pre-postal checking, I'm not certain that all faults would be spotted by retailers anyway. I went over mine with a magnifying glass several times to look for faults. I found several places where paint either had not adhered and had flaked off [or been scratched away by careless fitting of details], where there were small glue marks or just signs of rough finishing. I probably didn't see them all but all were, in my view, easily rectified and not worth a return. The faults which did generate the return were not spotted until later, at a time when I thought that I had a good 'un. It's a big model and really easy to miss things, even when in hindsight they appear obvious. And of course, if you are not familiar in detail with the prototype...........

 

Tony

[7013]

Indeed Steve I purchase from Hattons regularly and they always take great care with packaging, even if the item is an awkward shape. My posting #594 was not meant as a criticism of said company, it was merely to point out consumer rights.

Full marks to Hattons for their prompt attention when there has been a problem, and I am sure they will address any problems that arise. Your point Steve about the problems occurring at source is spot on and I am sure that Hattons and Heljan are taking steps to remedy this.

[Stevelewis]

 A friend  has  asked  me  if  anyone  has  reported  the  minimum suggested  radius  for  the  Garratt, He  has  15"  curves into hidden  sidings!  I would  imagine that  18" would  be  the recommended  minimum radius,  but  would   imagine  if ' push  comes  to  shove'  they  may  just  take  15" min  slowly.

 

(some  of  my 0n30 locos  have  a  22" recommended  minimum but  they  will  just  about  traverse  15"  when   asked  nicely  )

[Prometheus]

Unfortunately mine is wrapped up for return so I cannot access the handbook - I've a feeling that just over 17 inches was recommended as a minimum. I'm sure that others will be able to correct this if incorrect.

 

Tony

[Garrattfan]

I got mine last Friday. Excellent model I must say, well worth the wait.

 

The general impression is very good, running capabilities are good and it is a good puller. In the detail there are many signs of quick work, but nothing serious. For the price I can only recommend it.

A detailed English review is available on http://www.modelrailroading.nl/collection/LMS%20Garratt/LMS%20Garratt.html

To view all versions look at: http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/results.aspx?searchfield=beyer+garratt

Edited March 13, 2014 by Garrattfan