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Heljan Beyer garratt


Hugh Flynn
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......and Colonel Stephens picked up one cheap for the coal trains on the East Kent Railway....the loco was borrowed by the Southern Railway to help move the big guns on the Elham Valley line during the war and later ended up on Stephen's Kent and East Sussex to help move trains up Tenterden Bank.

 

Sure I saw the loco lurking at the back of Rolvenden Shed when I last passed :yes: :laugh:

 

Keith

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The intention was for the Hattons anniouncement to be made this coming Wednesday, with details also appearing in the September issue of Hornby Magazine which also should arrive with Subscribers on Wednesday / Thursday next week. There will be standard and revolving bunker types in a variety of liveries and weathered options.

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Blimey this thread has rocketed only been out for the day and now four pages.

Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about the bunker. I just wondered as they didn't list a BR version with a plain bunker, unless I missed it.

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....and the one repainted into BR lined green, named "Duchess of Cambridge" and used on the Cambridge Buffet Express until 1964......

 

Well, if you want silly...

 

Ed

 

Thats not silly...our school overlooked the line just south of Hills Road bridge in Cambridge, we saw it every day.........except when the prototype diesels appeared on the CBE instead! But Heljan have done those already anyway.

 

Stewart

 

PS true story time. We had Taurus come through one day on a goods (yes, it did actually). For those who don't know it, Taurus was an 0-8-0 centre cab diesel. My mates house overlooked Coldhams Lane disel shed in Cambridge; having missed seeing it pass the school, he woke up the next day to see Taurus visible inside the shed behind the opaque glass. He dashed to the shed, & asked the shedmaster if he could go in & photo it. Got a rather blank look, but he was escorted in, only to find 2x 03 shunters parked cab to cab.....

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Great news. I've just pre ordered mine. I also have an old K's kit (still unbuilt). Perhaps I'll still build it anyway. Its value on e-bay has probably just collasped.

 

I believe they visited every single foot of track on every route on a very regular basis (more than once an hour in fact!) and still do, with several members of the class preserved ;) :blink: :yes:

 

Not forgetting the one that got converted to 5'3" gauge and operated on the Belfast - Dublin line. :laugh:

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This loco is getting a terrific welcome (here if nowhere else) which must say something about both polls and the state of the hobby. Poll wise it was well down the field except on the individual LMS list which it topped but hardly a huge number or percentage of the votes yet someone has got the guts to go ahead with it in a time of economic uncertainty. The latter must say something about the resilience of our hobby with so many people welcoming a £200 loco with not a whisper of discontent about the price (well it is two locos in one in the most expensive part so the price is not out of order in my view). The other thing is that this thread indicates that, yet again, an iconic loco with relatively limited geographical use and a restricted range of liveries is receiving a wide welcome once it is promised as a reality instead of just another name on a poll list.

 

All in all it makes me even more convinced that the commissioners and some manufacturers know a lot more than the pollsters about what is going to be popular and likely to sell in commercial quantities - and that can't be a bad thing for our hobby.

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All in all it makes me even more convinced that the commissioners and some manufacturers know a lot more than the pollsters about what is going to be popular and likely to sell in commercial quantities - and that can't be a bad thing for our hobby.

 

^This. I totally agree with you Mike. I might add, it's a locomotive which seems to be causing modellers in general to think of buying one, not just those of an LMS persuasion.

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Well it's nice to see that at last somebody has the sense to order a popular locomotive type that will sell out of region or country, as these should sell abroad as well as in this country. Can't really see why it should not sell well, hardly overpriced at the cost of two Beattie Well Tanks back to back!..perhaps even a bit underpriced for such a relatively complex model.

 

Not one for set track curves, unless sliding loco to tanks joints are used, I hope they do not waste too much time making it go around really tight curves, and concentrate on the details and finish from the makers.

 

Great show case models as well as a sight on a large layout. Although unknown delivery dates so far, but what has Heljan's record been like before on announcement to delivery? ..and is this a Hatton's exclusive commission?

 

Anyway, one on order all ready!

 

Stephen.

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Obviously some good prototype research gone into the seleection of loco numbers - carefully avoiding the 3 prototype locos with their different smaller front water tanks and bunker variations.

They all have 2 motors fitted - was some doubt expressed earlier ?

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and is this a Hatton's exclusive commission?

 

From an email from Hattons...

 

This is new item that has just been announced and unfortunately we have no estimated date of release or any delivery information on this item as of yet. This item is exclusive to Hattons and will be a limited run quantity's of each is yet to be announced.
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From an email from Hattons...

This item is exclusive to Hattons and will be a limited run quantity's of each is yet to be announced.

That strikes me as a little silly to be honest. Going by this thread alone, the garratt seems very popular indeed, and limiting the number will only limit the sales and hit the potential income. I cannot imagine many people would ONLY buy it because not that many are available? If its done to encorage preorders its of no financial advantage because your not charged until its dispatched. The NRM sure learned from it mistake in seriously under estimating the number of DP1s that it could sell, and has made sure all subsequent models have been in plentiful supply.

Just my opinnion of cause

Jim

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Does anybody have any experience of Heljan's Danish steam locos?A post on uk.rec.models.rail would indicate they have had problems.Lets hope they are not being too ambitious with their first UK steam loco.

As I remember it, Heljan's first steam outline loco (Danish Litra P) was not the greatest success from a technical/running point of view. But that was 10 years ago and the recent improved P is supposedly much improved and a good runner (according to reviews). (video of the new P here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtqIJ-L_NTM&feature=player_embedded)

 

Their Faulhaber-powered Litra E had some problems with the front bogie, although I believe that was fixed. Other than that I believe it received decent reviews on the running and detail.

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Obviously some good prototype research gone into the seleection of loco numbers - carefully avoiding the 3 prototype locos with their different smaller front water tanks and bunker variations.

They all have 2 motors fitted - was some doubt expressed earlier ?

 

Let's just hope that they have been to Manchester Museum of Science and Industry and been through the Beyer Peacock collection with a fine toothcomb.

 

A selection of a few drawings and photograhs below. There are a lot more.....

 

Link 1

 

Link 2

 

Link 3

 

Link 4

 

Link 5

 

Link 6

 

Link 7

 

Pre-ordered mine last night and I know my friend ordered one too.

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Well done Heljan for having the balls to do it. Put my order in for a British Rail version, well it might have been tried out on the Fawley oil tanks, that's my excuse.

Did rather fancy a plain bunkered version. No being a LMS man my information library is not that comprehensive. Did the early bunkers get converted to rotary bunkers before BR days?

 

 

IIRC, not all the plane bunkers got converted to rotary bunkers, but I will check my books later. Also the first three of four had different hight front tanks.

 

OzzyO.

 

Edit: sorry for reposting this information, I posted it as I read the message without reading all the other posts.

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That strikes me as a little silly to be honest. Going by this thread alone, the garratt seems very popular indeed, and limiting the number will only limit the sales and hit the potential income. I cannot imagine many people would ONLY buy it because not that many are available? If its done to encorage preorders its of no financial advantage because your not charged until its dispatched. The NRM sure learned from it mistake in seriously under estimating the number of DP1s that it could sell, and has made sure all subsequent models have been in plentiful supply.

Just my opinnion of cause

Jim

 

Sorry Jim, but limiting the numbers increases the model's desirability and therefore the demand. If people think this is it - one chance, or they're gone - they'll order them! Second batches rarely do as well, Deltic being the exception rather than the rule. Ask any retailer how many of the second batch of Heljan Falcons they have sold, in comparison to the demand for the first batches, and that of Kestrel, Lion etc thereafter...!

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IIRC, not all the plane bunkers got converted to rotary bunkers, but I will check my books later. Also the first three of four had different hight front tanks.

 

OzzyO.

 

I sometimes wonder why I bother sad.gif- must be Beast's invisible ink on my posts yet again! Number 54 in this thread read as follows (although I didn't mention the tanks as the question was about bunkers) - so here it is again for those who missed ityes.gif

The coal bunker history on the LMS Garratts is not entirely simple: 4997 came with a rectangular sided bunker and I presume 4998/99 matched this but the latter two definitely had a single coal rail atop the bunker whereas this is not entirely clear on the only pic I can find of 4997 (and one source states that it did not have coal rails); these 3 locos were also equipped to work vacuum braked trains and thus had screw couplings. 4998/99 remained unaltered into early BR days but I don't know if they were altered later.

With one exception the second, large, batch (4967-96) of 30 originally came with the top of the bunker turned inwards to increase capacity and didn't have coal rails; they also had 3 link couplings as they were not equipped to work vac braked trains. However 4986 of this batch was built with a 9 ton capacity roatary bunker - which was later transferred to 4997 when the whole of the second batch (4967 to 4996) were fitted with 10 ton capacity rotary bunkers in 1932-3. The whole class was renumbered in 1939 when they changed from 4967-99 to 7967-99, in the BR period 40,000 was added to these later numbers resulting in the series 47967 - 47999.

Thus - assuming the above information from one of Brian Haresnape's volumes is correct - the only locos not to have rotary bunkers when they they numbered in the 79xx series were 7998 and 7999 and they also had vacuum pipes and screw couplings. The rest had rotary bunkers (albeit with 47997's being slightly different), no vac pipes, and 3 link couplings. Hattons appear to be producing only the second pattern of bunker and the larger revolving bunker but their date information against the loco specs in the ad sounds to be spot on.

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Given that a kitbuilt V4 reached 250+ quid, and a kitbuilt Deeley 0-4-0T, (about as big as a Sentinel!!), reached 348 quid on Ebay last night, there seems to be no shortage of interest in esoteric and one-off machines! Z4/5 anyone???

Cheers, Peter C.

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I sometimes wonder why I bother sad.gif- must be Beast's invisible ink on my posts yet again! Number 54 in this thread read as follows (although I didn't mention the tanks as the question was about bunkers) - so here it is again for those who missed ityes.gif

 

 

Hello Stationmaster,

 

as I said in my edit to my post, I posted my message as I read the message in the thread and before I got to the end of the thread, so no invisible ink involved, just me being over eager to reply to a message.

 

OzzyO.

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That strikes me as a little silly to be honest. Going by this thread alone, the garratt seems very popular indeed, and limiting the number will only limit the sales and hit the potential income. I cannot imagine many people would ONLY buy it because not that many are available? If its done to encorage preorders its of no financial advantage because your not charged until its dispatched. The NRM sure learned from it mistake in seriously under estimating the number of DP1s that it could sell, and has made sure all subsequent models have been in plentiful supply.

Just my opinnion of cause

Jim

 

 

Commissioned models are always limited editions, as the commissioner has to tell the manufacturer how many to make. And, since it's the commissioner, not the manufacturer, who will bear the cost of any unsold items, the number has to be set at a level which can reasonably be expected to sell out (or, at least, get close enough to selling out for any unsold models not to result in an overall loss).

 

If demand is underestimated and the initial number is too low then it's always possible to have another manufacturing run later. But overestimating demand and ending up with a lot of unsold models can be very costly indeed, so it's always sensible to err on the low side. That's particularly the case for something at this end of the price scale.

 

 

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I have to agree. The costings would have been done up front and a break even position established. The name of the game is to recover your costs as quickly as possible and anything beyond that is pure profit. Far better to increase the demand by making it a limited edition and reducing your risk than making it open ended and have a lot of prospective purchasers sitting on the fence until the model is available.

 

OK, there is a risk, it may be pup....or it could be superb. Sometimes you've got to take a punt and as I'm a glass half full guy, my order has gone in.

 

I definitely saw one at Wood Green on the ECML in the '60's...;)

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Sorry Jim, but limiting the numbers increases the model's desirability and therefore the demand. If people think this is it - one chance, or they're gone - they'll order them! Second batches rarely do as well, Deltic being the exception rather than the rule. Ask any retailer how many of the second batch of Heljan Falcons they have sold, in comparison to the demand for the first batches, and that of Kestrel, Lion etc thereafter...!

 

There's also the very practical consideration that Hattons have to commision a certain number, which divided among the various livery varaiations gives you a limited edition almost by definition. These are the only ones that Hattons are commiting to doing after all. If they give the impression that they are an unlimited resource then there is a risk of sitting with more unsold stock. If you can sell the lot before even having manufactured one you're on to a winner ;)

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Well done Hatton's and Heljan!

 

I have always been impressed by the quality of Heljan locos (albeit Diesels) and I am sure that the will do justice to the Beyer Garratt. I will order an LMS one with the revolving bunker ( now how does one get that to work?) and although I suspect it would never have come close to Bristol, this (like the Blue Pullman) is a must have loco. Now, can SWD produce a double sound decoder with approriate sound for this beast! What about a working revolving bunker DCC mechanism and a Seuthe smoke unit- no shortage of space! Hopefully it will be followed by a 47xx and a 72/42XX!

 

Since it is a limited edition it will be a sell-out!

 

BTW, has anyone put a micro loksound unit in the Dapol Sentinel?

 

Regards

 

Brian Patterson

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