Heljan Beyer garratt

[bigherb]

If it is pivoted close to the inner drivers then there is likey to be about the same overhang as a bogie coach

[tetsudofan]

...don't forget that Hattons/Heljan are not the first to make big locomotive models......other manufacturers, including European Manufactuers like Rivarossi have been making them for years. I'm sure that Heljan will make use of what has gone before...

 

Keith

Edited September 6, 2011 by tetsudofan

[bertiedog]

The K's kit version went round 2 foot 6 inch radius easily, after a bit of attention to the cab. as mentioned it is only the rotary bunker that can cause a problem with models, the Kitmaster version went around curves about the same, but there it depended whether the chassis were scale or nearest commercial types. With commercial chassis it went around tight curves, but the rotary coal drum fouled. I seem to remember converting a couple of the plastic kits to the plain coal bunker for this reason, then they go around the tightest set curves without any issues, bar slight overhang from the boiler, (in terms of set track curves)

 

As designed the K's also did not allow sudden gradient changes, the units did not pivot up and down enough, it was OK on decently graded track, but on set track with the kind of gradients that Tri-ang used, it derailed, lifting the inner wheels. Slackening the joints allowed it to operate.

 

I very much doubt that Heljan would expect it to track the old Tri-ang gradients, which was for years the governing design requirement for Hornby, resulting in the strange front bogie on the Lord of the isles for instance. With modern set track it should be one of the easiest large locomotives to operate, with scale track or P4 no issues at all. The whole point of the Beyer Garratt was to operate on normal track, without having to adjust everything for larger clearances, unlike the Mallett articulated system, which generally does require bigger clearances, and in model form causes major overhang problems.

 

Stephen.

[coachmann]

Just taken some pics of a Hornby Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 on my test track using Roco R3 (435mm radius) from which you can see the overhang etc.

Nice to see this big locomotive, but I'm afraid the Mallett system of articulation does't have much in common with the Beyer Garratt...

[DerekEm8]

 

 

As designed the K's also did not allow sudden gradient changes, the units did not pivot up and down enough, it was OK on decently graded track, but on set track with the kind of gradients that Tri-ang used, it derailed, lifting the inner wheels. Slackening the joints allowed it to operate.

Stephen.

 

This was a similar problem found with the 3 original Garrets- Derby had not informed Beyer Peacocks that the Garrets were to go over Toton hump. - Cab floors had to be modified and the hump 'rounded off'. (LMS Locos vol5 (RE&DJ))

[stewartingram]

This was a similar problem found with the 3 original Garrets- Derby had not informed Beyer Peacocks that the Garrets were to go over Toton hump. - Cab floors had to be modified and the hump 'rounded off'. (LMS Locos vol5 (RE&DJ))

 

I have visions of that hump being rounded off the way we did a layout many years ago.... if you are squeamish look away now!

 

My mate acquired a roundy-roundy built with Wrenn fibre track; never one to waste anything, he proceeded to resurrect it. In the centre he constructed a polystyrene (ceiling tile) hill/mountain, which was duly carved to a smooth shape (using the wife's carving knife, another story!). Upon running a train round, the overhang in the centre of the bogie coaches fouled the hill, so it was decided to take a slice off the base of the hill, to reduce its diameter. (It wasn't fixed down yet).

A redundant electric fire element was found (remember them? a coil of resistive wire wound on a heat resistant former, operated at mains voltage). Also 2 household bricks, a couple of pairs of strong pliers, and a mains lead. Oh, and me of course!

The wire was unwound from the element, stretched taut across the bricks, held by the pliers, and connected to the mains lead. It promptly glowed, and I was ordered to push the hill towards it, thus hot-slicing the base off!

Oh the joy and fun of real modelling - don't try this at home!

 

Stewart

[edcayton]

Brilliant!

 

Ed

[Rugd1022]

An odd coincidence perhaps, but there are some photos / slides of the Garretts up for grabs on ebay right now...!

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Railwayana-/1444/i.html?Type=Photographs&Company%252F%2520Era%252F%2520Region=British%2520Rail%2520%25281948%252D1997%2529&_trkparms=65%253A10%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1&rt=nc&_catref=1&_dmpt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&_sc=1&_sop=10&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1581&_pgn=3

 

[The Stationmaster]

An odd coincidence perhaps, but there are some photos / slides of the Garretts up for grabs on ebay right now...!

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...14.l1581&_pgn=3

 

 

Nothing like striking while interest's high Some fascinating photos on there Nidge - with some interesting erroneous descriptions such as the one at the top of page 1 which is described as 'Salisbury' and is very obviously Westbury while there's a 9F at 'Leicester Midland' which is all too obviously not there (I'm fairly sure it's actually Leicester Central but it's a long time since I was last there, or indeed since the railway was last there).

[AMJ]

Unless I have missed it amongst the many pages wasn't there proposals from Dapol to do the very same locos when they started up? There was an article in a mag and this has been discussed in the models that were not produced thread on here.

[barrowroad]

Midland Outpost - Memories Of Barrow Road Shed by D J Fleming. RP Publishing of Bristol. No ISBN number 1984/5.

Also, The Best Way To Bath by Neil Burgess with the same publisher 1984. Of note too is Memories by Anthony Wray with Avon Valley Publishing 1988. These are all paperback but i should think now difficult to find. The Avon Valley Railway may be able to help. Their own Semiphore booklets may also shed light.

 

I already have copies of the first two books but don't recall seeing any photo of a Beyer Garratt in them - perhaps I'll have another look.

[darren01]

Can i get one into Torrington.......

[Captain Kernow]

I'm getting extremely interested in evidence of the Garratts working south of Gloucester now and especially to Bath (Midland). There's absolutely no reference to them in the Colin Maggs book on the Midland route to Bath. He's normally a bit of a stickler for details like that, so this just gets more and more intriguing!

[The Stationmaster]

I'm getting extremely interested in evidence of the Garratts working south of Gloucester now and especially to Bath (Midland). There's absolutely no reference to them in the Colin Maggs book on the Midland route to Bath. He's normally a bit of a stickler for details like that, so this just gets more and more intriguing!

 

Well it is only half the story but they are conspicuous by their absence from the 1933 S&DJtR Appendix to the WTT and all supplements thereto issued up to and including May 1945 but I presume an LMS Appendix in fact covered moves off that Company's lines into Bath so such exclusion tells us not very much.

[stewartingram]

Just to add interest, I've seen a picture of one passing through Whittlesey station between Peterborough & March, though I've no idea where I found it.

 

Stewart

[coachmann]

Maybe the LMS Society could provide the answers as to where the Garratts strayed. It would also be useful to know what and where restrictions were in force. Platform clearances?...........Neighbouring LNER and GWR lines restrictions.

[juggy0_1]

Another good book that relates to stories of what was like to drive and fire the garretts, its called 'Hobsons Choice - recollections of a north country engineman' by DENNIS HOBSON. ISBN 0-86093-370-9.

[Bomag]

Just to add interest, I've seen a picture of one passing through Whittlesey station between Peterborough & March, though I've no idea where I found it.

 

Stewart

 

I did not know the Midland had their own line from Peterborough to March! I would of thought that the GE one via Whittlesea would have sufficed

[Metr0Land]

Looks like someone couldn't wait for the Hattons/Heljan jobbie:

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5d2fd6218b

 

Admittedly it is a 2-8-8-2 so maybe he wants to race them?

[APOLLO]

Here is my (very) old non working Kitmaster, waiting patiently to be scrapped. (Been in this scrapyard 10 years !!)

 

 

Brit15

[bike2steam]

I'm getting extremely interested in evidence of the Garratts working south of Gloucester now and especially to Bath (Midland). There's absolutely no reference to them in the Colin Maggs book on the Midland route to Bath. He's normally a bit of a stickler for details like that, so this just gets more and more intriguing!

 

I have seen references of them working into Westerleigh Yard, but not beyond (south thereof), likewise, as someone else has mentioned, working into March, and they were occasionally seen in York.

[2ManySpams]

CK

 

I'm sure evidence will come to light that they were tested out on the S&D.

[Captain Kernow]

I have seen references of them working into Westerleigh Yard, but not beyond (south thereof), likewise, as someone else has mentioned, working into March, and they were occasionally seen in York.

I have now found a definite reference to a daily freight working from Toton to Westerleigh Yard, with the Garratt loco going to Gloucester shed for servicing, not Barrow Road or Bath, apparently. This started circa 1950 until circa 1956. There is a photo of 47994 on shed at Gloucester taken during tihs time frame. 47994 was not finally withdrawn until 1958, according to this source.

[Re6/6]

Although absolutely nothing to do with this thread, but to do with 'oddities' running outside their usual haunts I love this one, An LMS 'Austin Seven' 0-8-0 on the S&D. If only there were some pics!

[RP29]

Does anybody have any idea of how we might learn what back-to-back setting Heljan will use for the Hattons/Heljan Garratt? On page 9 (posts 209, et seq.) of the Eastwood Town thread (blog?) on RMweb there is a discussion of B2B wrt 00-SF trackwork. There it is stated that Heljan use a B2B of 14.2 mm and that this is uncomfortably small. The thought of a Garratt is very attractive, but the thought of trying to increase the B2B on so many axles isn't.

 

Robert