Heljan Beyer garratt

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

What we learn from this announcement is that clearly Hattons achieved a successful result the first time around.

[Hroth]

Or for a total of £210, Hattons can sell you the front, middle and backs of the Garatt, evidently for replacing faulty parts on an old one.

 

ItsaBitsaGaratt !

 

Put them together and its £2 cheaper than the pre-order locos....

(and only £11 more than you'd have spent on the original issue!)

[cbeagleowner]

This is great news. I dropped Hattons an email a few weeks ago suggesting they re-release (not that I think my email really did much to help the cause!)

 

In terms of the model I thought it could benefit from blackened handrails and on the rotary bunker the ledge thing needs to be extended a little - I wonder if this was what affected the size of some of the numbers which were too big.

 

However seeing the cosmetic improvements made with the class 28, I'd be hopeful!

[ndg910]

Hmm, dilemma alert. My layout is nowhere near the Cricklewoid Toton sphere of Garrett operation but, and this might swing it, my grandfather was Shed master at Cricklewood Shed. It will definitely be rule one operation with a capital R. I resisted last time as I was wary of the Hattons Heljan link up which in hindsight avoided the resultant issues.

 

This time however I’m sorely tempted! Releasing a new GWR RTR class like an Aberdare would have been so much easier to justify. At least it could hide in the shed with the other GWR locos when the snap Shed master inspection takes place. A rogue LMS loco won’t be quite so inconspicuous!

[Deltic]

The BGs are expected to arrive in Q3 of 2019. Will be interesting to see whether they can hold that figure for the next 12 months.  Others have quoted RPs which have increased just before actual delivery.

[Ian Hargrave]

Leaving aside the "issues " and assuming these have been addressed,the factor that detracts fron its obvious appeal for me is the sheer size and cumbersome bulk when it's time to put it on the tracks and remove it for storage.Ultimately once it's on ,it stays put I imagine.

 

I think IIRC,there is or was a facility available for this from Hattons.This is an intriguing prospect and as has been posted above by colleague B&D,one which would not have been repeated if the sums didn't add up first time round.

[Colin_McLeod]

A part exchange option would be welcome.

[amdaley]

A part exchange option would be welcome.

 

Two chances I would say 

[Colin_McLeod]

Ever the realist Tony

[Garethp8873]

Won't complain over this announcement. Been wanting to get a LMS Garratt with a rotating bunker for a long time now...

[Jamiel]

I wonder if the new motors will be available as spares, or if Hattons will offer an upgrade/motor replacement service to those who bought the first less than reliable batch?

Edited September 11, 2018 by Jamiel

[adb968008]

Interesting that this now seems to be part of Heljan's core range rather than a retailer commission. I presume they've come to some agreement with Hatton's to permit that.

I’m hoping the same is true of the class 76..

[stewartingram]

I'm still convinced that the motors are no worse than any other model.

I've had mine to pieces 3 times now, for painting/mods on the wiring etc. I've also got one here from a friend, and have rebuilt it (including many stripdowns & re-assembly during the process) so that it does actually work - I'm told he has had it back to the shop for repairs and still had further faults. The problems I have found with the design all concern its fragile method of assembly, just look at it and it falls to pieces. Nevertheless a wonderful model, that I do not regret buying. And if it starts to fall apart, the mechanism jams, stalling the motor, which could then become a failure. That is not the primary fault of the motor. 

The one I have just rebuilt has had all the joints on slide bars, hangers etc secured with araldite (obviously not the moving bits!). It can now be handled safely. and runs sweetly. Also, due to working on it, the pickups needed careful adjustment, and again some araldite added for security. In addition, a lot of small items of detail needed to be put back on - a common fault with modern models all of the time. BUT, during one of these multiple rebuilds, I had the valve gear fail (not sure which loco, pretty sure it was mine), which caused the loco to stall with much smoke from the motor. I was resigned to changing it, I have spares. However, upon removal I thoroughly tested it (comparing with another good one), no fault apparent. It went back in, unharmed. Both locos are for DC only, so have had all wiring stripped out, and simple wiring, from pickups to motors (in parallel which helps prevent stalling) has been fitted instead.

 

Stewart

[Francis deWeck]

This is a surprise...2019 looks expensive, but my current Garratt will be content with a shed companion. Interesting to note that Hattons' are selling a sound fitted unit (sourced from Olivia's).

[cctransuk]

... if it starts to fall apart, the mechanism jams, stalling the motor, which could then become a failure. That is not the primary fault of the motor.

 

 

Exactly !!

 

Fragile valvegear + heavy handling = jammed valvegear = motor stalled = smoke !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[robmcg]

this one makes a lot of smoke

 

 

 

one picture edited,will remove if asked.

 

Superb models these, I have test-run about a dozen, admittedly not for long periods, and never had a single problem.

Edited September 11, 2018 by robmcg

[Jamiel]

Exactly !!

 

Fragile valvegear + heavy handling = jammed valvegear = motor stalled = smoke !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

A carefully handled loco is quite capable of stalling.

 

In my experience it is a long 'S' shaped bend that perhaps puts the motors out of synch and causes a lock. Once stalled I have never left it long enough to cause smoke. Presumably those who have changed the motor have allowed the strength of a new motor to overcome small seizes in the valve gear, which I suspect is the issue with stalling locos.

 

I resent the implication that only locos that have been badly handled have had issues with stalling. After reading of the concerns with the loco on this thread mine was handled very carefully and watched closely in case of problems. Despite this the loco stalls and no other loco on my layout has that issue, so it is not badly laid track.

 

It is also telling that the new models are advertised as ‘Model has been revised with new improved motor and other upgrades’ on the Kernow Model Rail Centre website.

 

Jamie

Edited September 11, 2018 by Jamiel

[Golden Fleece 30]

A carefully handled loco is quite capable of stalling.

 

In my experience it is a long 'S' shaped bend that perhaps puts the motors out of synch and causes a lock. Once stalled I have never left it long enough to cause smoke. Presumably those who have changed the motor have allowed the strength of a new motor to overcome small seizes in the valve gear, which I suspect is the issue with stalling locos.

 

I resent the implication that only locos that have been badly handled have had issues with stalling. After reading of the concerns with the loco on this thread mine was handled very carefully and watched closely in case of problems. Despite this the loco stalls and no other loco on my layout has that issue, so it is not badly laid track.

 

It is also telling that the new models are advertised as ‘Model has been revised with new improved motor and other upgrades’ on the Kernow Model Rail Centre website.

 

Jamie

That is very true Jamie, I too am very careful with my models and do not like the comment that I was heavy handed which is far from the truth.

 

The answer to issues is in the line "revised with improved motor" which speaks volumes and acknowledges the fact that was a problem.

 

Garry

[adb968008]

A part exchange option would be welcome.

I think it’s a possibility this model makes history...

 

In that the re-runs sell greater than the original batch, as everyone offloads the old to ebay, and competes buying new with those who held back/missed out on the first ones :-)

 

In a way i’m Breathing a sigh of relief here, I’ve owned 4 of the first ones, but passed on 3 between £300-400 each, partially out of fear of being left holding the baby if they got knackered. Turns out I’ve done ok.

 

I will be ordering a new one, and maybe consider time on the old one, whilst it’s never gone pop I don’t want to tempt fate.

 

Perhaps there’s a factory tip to be learnt here... before fitting the motors... test them and group motors with similar start up volts and amps together, so risk of two differing speed motors is reduced.

Alternative fit the motor in the boiler, like the 47xx, with a drive chain down to a shaft going full length of the boiler/frame with bevelled gears to each end, so it’s and allows pivoting the chassis drives, bit like how Roco does it between tender and loco.

Edited September 12, 2018 by adb968008

[MikeParkin65]

A carefully handled loco is quite capable of stalling.

 

In my experience it is a long 'S' shaped bend that perhaps puts the motors out of synch and causes a lock. Once stalled I have never left it long enough to cause smoke. Presumably those who have changed the motor have allowed the strength of a new motor to overcome small seizes in the valve gear, which I suspect is the issue with stalling locos.

 

 

Surely it is asking a lot of any loco, even an articulated one,  to negotiate an S shaped bend however well laid the track is? 

[Jamiel]

Surely it is asking a lot of any loco, even an articulated one,  to negotiate an S shaped bend however well laid the track is? 

 

If the 'S' shape is over 3ft long and has very slight curves. This is not set track!

 

It seems that there are a lot of people who are very ready to criticise things they have no knowledge of (ie. a layout they have not seen) in defence of what many others have commented on as a poorly manufactured model.

 

No other locomotive has had any issue with this track, 8 or 10 coupled steam engines included.

 

I would therefore conclude that this locomotive which is essentially a double headed 2-6-0 has been manufactured to a lower standard than the rest of my rolling stock.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Jamiel

[Ian Hargrave]

this one makes a lot of smoke

 

47996_Garratt_portrait30_1ab_r1200.jpg

 

47996_Garratt_shed_2abcdef_r1200.jpg

 

one picture edited,will remove if asked.

 

Superb models these, I have test-run about a dozen, admittedly not for long periods, and never had a single problem.

Yes well your key phrase is. "Not for long periods ".Maybe we tend to assume if a model performs well 'out of the box' then all will be well.It ain't necessarily so,I'm afraid.

[cctransuk]

That is very true Jamie, I too am very careful with my models and do not like the comment that I was heavy handed which is far from the truth.

 

The answer to issues is in the line "revised with improved motor" which speaks volumes and acknowledges the fact that was a problem.

 

Garry

 

My comment did not say that - it indicated that heavy handling COULD lead to stalling and motor damage.

 

Nowhere did it say that heavy handling was the SOLE cause of stalling.

 

Please read more carefully in future.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Jamiel]

My comment did not say that - it indicated that heavy handling COULD lead to stalling and motor damage.

 

Nowhere did it say that heavy handling was the SOLE cause of stalling.

 

Please read more carefully in future.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

To quote you exactly.

 

"Exactly !!

 

Fragile valvegear + heavy handling = jammed valvegear = motor stalled = smoke !!"

 

I understand mathematical symbols, these are exact terms, they do not imply 'could'.

 

2+1=3 means, two plus one equals three.

 

It does not say that two plus one could be three depending on some circumstances.

 

Sorry to quote semantics in this reply, but you are contradicting what you said.

 

That said, I’m sure a good accountant could take 2+1=3 and devise a quite different result.

 

Jamie

Edited September 12, 2018 by Jamiel

[Ian Hargrave]

My comment did not say that - it indicated that heavy handling COULD lead to stalling and motor damage.

 

Nowhere did it say that heavy handling was the SOLE cause of stalling.

 

Please read more carefully in future.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I think your meaning is clear. You would help yourself immeasurably if you took a rest from telling others what to do or think. It is both tiresome and overbearing.