kevpeo Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hi all, anybody that's seen Boldon Junction or its replacement Coppell out and about has probably seen this and her two sisters passing by, behind a pair of ''nuclear peds'' of course - One of three (out of the nine prototypes) 101 ton, four bogie, import/export flask carriers. They were used mainly between Barrow-in-Furness docks and Sellafield. Now I would like to build a fourth model of one of these but I'm struggling to source the bogie's. The first three are fitted with Appleby (is that the correct spelling?) Models white metal kits which are no longer available. So before I stick a post in the wanted section to see if anybody has some spare, I'd like to confirm the correct name for them - I believe they are Sambre et Meuse cast steel Y25CSNM, but there is also the very similar looking Sambre et Meuse VNH1! Are these the latest version perhaps? Inter-City models don't seem to have them in their range, are there any alternatives out there? I promise a blow by blow account of the build, then again, that might put people off! Thanks for looking, Kev, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 ISTR that a VNH1 is essentially the same as a cast Y25, but with smaller wheels. Genesis kits do a cast Y27, but only a fabricated Y25. The Y27 and cast Y25 are outwardly similar but I've never studied the differences in detail, they might be suitable, however. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Cheers pugsley, but the Y27's, as on the Seacows etc, I've seen don't seem to have the long ''sticky out bits''(technical term!) at each end of the bogie frame. Shame, kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think they're called cross-members I see what you mean - I did warn you that I hadn't looked at the differences that closely Looking at these two images: http://www.garethbayer.co.uk/wotw/displayimage.php?pid=9927&fullsize=1 http://www.garethbayer.co.uk/wotw/displayimage.php?pid=5404&fullsize=1 You could modify the Y27 with some milliput and styrene channel, the wheelbase is identical at 1800mm, and it's only the ends that appear to be really different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted August 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2011 The bogies you have used are cast Y25s. Have you tried Appleby direct given that they have re-introduced some of the range? Interesting model - I hadn't realised they were used for pairs of the old flasks, I had only ever seen them with the cylindrical flasks. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Hi red death, you only see the cylindrical ones these days, new wagons though! Even the square ones had a strange cover on the top in later days. I didn't realize Appleby were doing any 4mm these days, thanks for that tip. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDBLUE17 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Hi Kev, I will keep an eye out for your step by step guide to building these wagons as my future planned layout will get away with needing at least one of these. Thanks, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Anywhere close to the Tiphook KFAs as just done by Hornby? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thanks NSE, they may well work with larger wheels fitted! I've sent a letter to John Talbot to see if he still does them, the favored option as at least they will all match! Thanks for all the help chaps and watch this space Mark. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Kev, I have some Appleby 4B13 Y25C cast bogies, is this what you need? Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Oh, you are a star Paul! Have you got four? I'll let you know when/if I get a reply from John, I don't want to deplete your stocks if not necessary! thanks, kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Kev, Let me know if you still need them. I can lose two pairs no problem. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 After a bit of a pause (3 months! I've been busy ) I'm ready for action(ish!) Now before I start, rivet counters better turn away now . When I built the first of these wagons back in the 80's (when I still had some hair!!!) the drawings for these wagons were, shall we say, a bit on the rare side! Despite contacting several people at BNFL they were ''reluctant'' to let me (or anyone else for that matter!) have any info, for obvious reasons!!! Therefore the original wagon was based on my best ''guesstimate'' from photo's, and later its two clones were copied from that one. I know, bad form, copying another model! So if anybody now has access to the drawings, now that the wagons have been scrapped, and would be willing to put a copy on here so that everybody else can get it right! That would be very helpful indeed. In the absence of further info, all the measurements quoted from this point on are invariably going to be wrong, so use them at your peril! First job, strip down one of the existing wagons so I can remember how it was built (!) and start to measure up for the new one - The photo shows the component parts, with the castings for an Appleby bogie in the centre thanks to that nice Mr Lyddrail, although John Talbot does indeed still do them. Next job, prepare a block of hardwood 209mm x 31mm x 23mm for the main body. I'll be back when that's ready, will anybody care! Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 Well, no offers of better drawings, so time to press on with my attempts! After preparing the block of wood (beech, if you interested!) to size, the main well body was marked out for cutting using the sizes copied from the first/second batch - A drawing of said sizes! - The shape was cut out using a band saw and cleaned up with a chisel and sanding block.- Shown here faced in plastic sheet so you can see it against the background. It doesn't need a perfect finish as long as the sizes match, as its all covered in plastic sheet. Now if your not handy with a chisel you can always use the above drawing to cut out two sides from plastic sheet and use 31mm x 8mm spacers to build up the basic form. I use the wood because (1) I'm a woodworker by trade. (2) it adds a bit of weight and (3) it gives me something to screw into later! Both sides are then faced, one at a time, with 20 thou plastic sheet (as shown above) using contact adhesive thinly spread onto the wood and weighted down overnight, and yes, they are Bachman 37 underframe tank weights! And thats as far as I've got so far. I keep getting distracted by Heljan 86's!!! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2011 Despite contacting several people at BNFL they were ''reluctant'' to let me (or anyone else for that matter!) have any info, for obvious reasons!!! Excellent work there Kev. I had a similar "security reasons" response when trying to track down drawings of the KUA's. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 It will be even worse now that the site has been taken over by an American company. Just look how they stopped steam specials going in to turn on the triangle. Looking forwards to the build Kev. Do you not have any problems with the wood moving. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hi OzzyO. I did check out the dismantled 15 year old one, and its still flat! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 I had a similar "security reasons" response when trying to track down drawings of the KUA's. Cheers, Mick Thanks Mick. I'm still kicking myself that when DRS had an open day at their dockside site, and one was on display, all I did was take photo's of the barrier wagons for Steve! never mind, kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hi all, not much done due to ''distractions'' and a lack of plastic sheet, now rectified with a trip to 'Crafty Hobbies' our local model shop. I did finish cladding the ends using four pieces 8mm x 4mm (in this case from black sheet so it stands out!) and two pieces 33mm x 8mm, all 20thou thick. It now just needs a careful clean up ready to fit the decking sheets. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trains12 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Hi Keve Have sent you a PM Keep up the work.Will post some shots of the EXL4 Flasks that I have started some time ago. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Feel free Trains12, the more the merrier! I have done some more work, so should get some more photo's up at the weekend. kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Once the sides were cleaned up it was on with the decking. First a piece of 10 thou plastic sheet (used for all the decking) 89mm x 33mm was cut for the well bottom and fixed with contact adhesive, with liquid poly run along the joint between the top sheet and side sheet. This was followed by a piece 94mm x 33mm for the base, all held down with the class 37 weights again - When dry, two pieces 21mm x 33mm were fixed to the well sides - As you can see, I'm not exactly rushing this wagon! Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardog73 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 hi peo you going to put a cylindrical flask or stay with the old flasks on the new one :locomotive: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oh, good question! I don't remember seeing a mixture of flasks on one train, so if I do some more flasks it'll be more of the square ones. I do remember seeing loaded and empty together, so I may go that route! kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 A couple of posts seem to have disappeared during the festive difficulties, not that they will be missed; it was only me & OzzyO! To finish off the cladding, two pieces 43mm x 33mm were added to the lower deck, with two pieces 47mm x 33mm for the upper deck - Note, if you're not using a wooden former for the construction you will need to add a couple of bolts through the lower pieces to attach the sub-bogie structures later! To finish the cladding, two last pieces 23mm x 33mm were attached to the well sides - After this is cleaned up there is very little detail on the well structure other than the eight tie-down loops and a few valves on the sides, so for now I'll move onto the sub-bogies! Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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