RMweb Premium richierich Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2011 Its the age old obsolescence problem that bedevils electronics! Its the first I've heard of PluX DCC connector, but its otherwise known as NEM658 connector. However there are 8 /16 / 22 pin versions. This web links has some interesting background on NMRA proposals:- http://dcc-mueller.d...ra/proposal.htm Plus NMRA working groups:- http://www.nmra.org/...ion_topics.html Guess the question is regarding backwards compatibility, especially to 21pin DCC sockets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Its the first I've heard of PluX DCC connector, but its otherwise known as NEM658 connector. However there are 8 /16 / 22 pin versions. Guess the question is regarding backwards compatibility, especially to 21pin DCC sockets? The links you give are rather out of date now, but there is some background elsewhere on the NMRA website. In the final outcome, PluX connectors are available in 4 sizes. The PluX12 has since been added and I think some of the dimensions on the other sockets have been adjusted slightly. Regards your question on 21-pin connectors; no, they are not compatible with the PluX connectors. As mentioned further back in this thread, since January 2010 (2 years ago) the NMRA have recommended that 21-pin connectors are no longer fitted to new model designs. I am not aware of any US RTR manufacturer ever using them anyway (I'm sure someone will say if they have.). In the meantime, many of the European RTR manufacturers who have used 21-pin connectors, are now changing over to the PluX standard on brand new model releases. The 21-pin MTC connector was only ever a short term "fix" until a suitable multi-pin connector could be agreed upon. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 The links you give are rather out of date now, but there is some background elsewhere on the NMRA website. In the final outcome, PluX connectors are available in 4 sizes. The PluX12 has since been added and I think some of the dimensions on the other sockets have been adjusted slightly. Regards your question on 21-pin connectors; no, they are not compatible with the PluX connectors. As mentioned further back in this thread, since January 2010 (2 years ago) the NMRA have recommended that 21-pin connectors are no longer fitted to new model designs. I am not aware of any US RTR manufacturer ever using them anyway (I'm sure someone will say if they have.). In the meantime, many of the European RTR manufacturers who have used 21-pin connectors, are now changing over to the PluX standard on brand new model releases. The 21-pin MTC connector was only ever a short term "fix" until a suitable multi-pin connector could be agreed upon. . Its been suggested a 21pin/8pin combo soloution. ANY THOUGHTS????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Its been suggested a 21pin/8pin combo soloution. ANY THOUGHTS????? I'm not sure what you mean by that Charlie? Do you mean two individual sockets on the PCB? The two types of connector can't be combined. 8-pin will scupper any attempt to put in more than very basic lighting functions, as it only supports 3 functions. But then I don't know what's needed for a Pacer, or if you intend to include interior lighting etc? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean by that Charlie? Do you mean two individual sockets on the PCB? The two types of connector can't be combined. 8-pin will scupper any attempt to put in more than very basic lighting functions, as it only supports 3 functions. But then I don't know what's needed for a Pacer, or if you intend to include interior lighting etc? . A PCB with an 8Pin & a 21Pin fitted, was one suggestion we got! The 144 has 'Daytime' Headlights & red Tail lights, plus interior LED passenger compartment lights. The working Toilet digital flush & door has been replaced with an 'Sorry Out of Use' sticker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 A PCB with an 8Pin & a 21Pin fitted, was one suggestion we got! OK I've got you. That's what I thought you meant. It's a novel approach and would cover both bases for the legacy decoder types, but would this eat up the space and cost more for the extra wiring and connectors? Just playing devil's advocate for a minute; if you are happy to put two in, why not go for 8 & PluX, or 21 & Plux and get a lead on the competition? It would show you're right on the ball with DCC developments. The working Toilet digital flush & door has been replaced with an 'Sorry Out of Use' sticker. :lol_mini: . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2012 The working Toilet digital flush & door has been replaced with an 'Sorry Out of Use' sticker. I know of someone who threatened to put separate DCC controlled toilet lights into a DMU, but has since seen the error of his ways.................. Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I know of someone who threatened to put separate DCC controlled toilet lights into a DMU, but has since seen the error of his ways.................. If he'd done it, do you think he'd feel flushed with success? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2012 hmmm... how to make a working toilet that discharges on to your 16.5mm track? I dont have a suitable layout o run one of these dmus on but after seeing the one Charlie had at Wigan I suspect I will be getting one. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Now if you ever need a sound effect for someone using the dunnie, I have one somewhere on my computer which I did for an abortive Microsoft Train Sim project which would have had a "Crappercam" passenger view.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 NOW. Back to the future. Does a 21Pin & PluX 8 Pin connector on one board sound logical. OR any other suggestions. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Does a 21 Pin & PluX8 Pin connector on one board sound logical. OR any other suggestions. Charlie The problem with going for a PluX8 connector, is that it supports the least number of accessory functions, but more importantly will not allow for any of the current sound decoders to be used. Better to go for a PluX16 or Plux22 connector. Everything smaller will fit - with the PluX16 you can fit 8, 12 and 16 decoders and with the PluX22 you can fit every size, 8, 12, 16 & 22. Zimo sound decoders are available with PluX16 (MX648P16 & MX645P16 ) & PluX22 (MX645P22 ) connectors.... The ESU LokSound V4.0 is available with a PluX12 connector.... As such, you can guess the PluX8 won't be popular with those wanting to fit sound. If you really want to employ two sockets, then a suitable PluX size and a 21-pin MTC will probably do it. That PCB is going to be "busy". . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2012 The more options the better as long as the PC board still fits without being to obtrusive into the interior would be my preference although I would rather see an 8 pin socket plus the new Plux connector. Athearn (or was it Proto 2000) put both the 8 pin and 21 pin on some of their USA locos not so long ago. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If you really want to employ two sockets, then a suitable PluX size and a 21-pin MTC will probably do it. That PCB is going to be "busy". This is more because I don't know and for information... 1) Are the PluX connections electrically incompatible with a 21, 8 pin or hardwired decoder? 2) Do the Plux connectors need a blanking plate for instance? If the answer to 1) is no, and 2) is yes, then surely what could be offered is a plug in blanking plate from a PluX 22 that has a 21 pin adaptor (with a blanking plate) in it and that then covers the two bases? If the answer to 1) is yes, then obviously forget about this suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is all interesting stuff about the lighting effects that are being put in and considered by the team behind these units. My ideal scene would see that they had a decoder capable of allowing the lights to 1. Have headlights only working off the 0 light function to turn on lights. 2. have tail lights controlled by a separate function so that each set could be controlled independently, meaning they could both be on, or off, or one end set on. That would mean you could have them on with headlights to shunt, both on as in standing in a station and both off so that when coupled the front unit has just its headlights on while the second unit would have just one set of lights on. 3. Finally you would be able to switch on your inside carriage lights. If it did all that with sound then the units would be so impressive it would make all other manufacturers envious by your initial success. I know you go could do further with door lights to, but given what I'd like aboe would require four lighting functions, and some major wiring in the boards, it's a lot to ask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 1) Are the PluX connections electrically incompatible with a 21, 8 pin or hardwired decoder? 2) Do the Plux connectors need a blanking plate for instance? If the answer to 1) is no, and 2) is yes, then surely what could be offered is a plug in blanking plate from a PluX 22 that has a 21 pin adaptor (with a blanking plate) in it and that then covers the two bases? If the answer to 1) is yes, then obviously forget about this suggestion. 1) No - regards the 21 & 8 pin. As for hardwiring - not sure why you'd want it, but IIRC Uhlenbrock do a break-out connector to allow for hardwiring. I'll have to check on that? 2) I haven't given that any thought. I suppose they do, unless there is a separate switch to isolate the socket for DC operation - highly unlikely I would have thought? Your solution is novel, but one has to ask why? Surely it would be much simpler to just buy an appropriate decoder for the connector provided. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is all interesting stuff about the lighting effects that are being put in and considered by the team behind these units. My ideal scene would see that they had a decoder capable of allowing the lights to 1. Have headlights only working off the 0 light function to turn on lights. 2. have tail lights controlled by a separate function so that each set could be controlled independently, meaning they could both be on, or off, or one end set on. That would mean you could have them on with headlights to shunt, both on as in standing in a station and both off so that when coupled the front unit has just its headlights on while the second unit would have just one set of lights on. With a 21 pin (and the PluX 12 and above) this should be standard on future releases. It's not difficult to achieve as the hardwired modification to the likes of a 21 pin Bachy 66 takes about 5 mins......... As an aside, has the Dapol 21 (and presume 10000/1) got switched tail lights? (Not forgetting the 22 pin problem) Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Your solution is novel, but one has to ask why? Surely it would be much simpler to just buy an appropriate decoder for the connector provided.. It seemed like the logical way to offer the two socket solution proposed whilst minimising the PCB clutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2012 When I buy a new item I tend to give it a test run and a bit of running in before fitting a spare decoder or a cheaper one such as the Hornby decoder available in some places for under a tenner. This then means I havent spent too much on a specific type of decoder that will eventually get replaced whern a suitable sound decoder is released. This cheaper decoder then gets recycled ino something else. Not sure if others do this but its something worth thinking about. There are adaptor plugs avilable but thry do tend to tke up a lot of dpace and certainly more than a pc board with dual sockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard brown Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I know this might be a bit late but ESU have a plux 12,16,22 to nem652 (8pin) adapter in thier new 2012 range so this could be a idea for the train Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I know this might be a bit late but ESU have a plux 12,16,22 to nem652 (8pin) adapter in thier new 2012 range so this could be a idea for the train The adapter was announced as new last year in their 2011 catalogue. It allows a loco fitted with a PluX connector, to accept an 8-pin decoder. Personally I'm not a fan of adapters and I think it's worth pointing out the extra cost to buy one. The ESU 51969 PluX to 8-Pin is available for about €9.00 (£7.60) from Germany and €9.95 (£8.35) off eBay, plus p&p (another £1.30 - £2.00 on top). . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 HI All A small vid from the factory arrived today. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Very nice. Close coupling between the units seems to be work a treat and the gangway between the coaches definately helps there as well. Big question for me is what is/are the two bogied chassises sitting in the middle of the oval..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I loved the shots there of the unit being run. Certainly very smooth operation and you can make out the lights on the front and back of the unit too. Looking impressive! Cant wait! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2012 Big question for me is what is/are the two bogied chassises sitting in the middle of the oval..? Maybe this is RT's secret next unit - a B*** P******? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.