Guest dilbert Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 If Carmine & Cream was strictly applied to passenger coaching stock, then the parcels railcars N°s 17 & 34 wouldn't have received this, they would have received a maroon paint job... Is there a photo out there that supports the crimson & cream livery on parcels cars ?... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 If Carmine & Cream was strictly applied to passenger coaching stock, then the parcels railcars N°s 17 & 34 wouldn't have received this, they would have received a maroon paint job... Is there a photo out there that supports the crimson & cream livery on parcels cars ?... dilbert No - both of the parcels cars were lined crimson, and were withdrawn as such. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 No - both of the parcels cars were lined crimson, and were withdrawn as such. Regards, John Isherwood. John, I would be surprised if either of the parcels cars were still carrying lining at withdrawal since it was abolished in 1952. Colour-Rail slide DE1634 shows 17 without it at Tyseley in June 1960, which would be around the time of withdrawal. DE659 shows 34 in crimson at Waltham St Lawrence in August 1959 but it is too dirty for me to be certain whether it is lined or not! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 John, I would be surprised if either of the parcels cars were still carrying lining at withdrawal since it was abolished in 1952. Colour-Rail slide DE1634 shows 17 without it at Tyseley in June 1960, which would be around the time of withdrawal. DE659 shows 34 in crimson at Waltham St Lawrence in August 1959 but it is too dirty for me to be certain whether it is lined or not! Chris I have a very clear Transport Treasury photo of W34W at Paddington, in what is far from pristine lined crimson. Since it was withdrawn in 1960, I cannot believe that it received a repaint prior to that date. Admittedly, the published photo of W17W that I have, when it was in VERY woebegone condition, is in unlined crimson. The point that I was making was that NO ex-GWR railcar, parcels or otherwise, was ever painted in maroon livery. There is a very great difference between maroon and crimson, and the former word was used in contrast to crimson to describe parcels car livery. Furthermore, a significant amount of non-corridor and NPCS stock was running around into the late 50s and even 60s in lined crimson livery, from my observations of contemporary photos. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted August 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2011 According to the "Great Western Way" (second edition) No.34 was painted lined crimson, however No.17 did not receive it's red livery until 1953 and was therefore unlined. It also notes that when the green livery started to be applied in 1959 to the passenger cars some had white roofs and some grey! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 According to the "Great Western Way" (second edition) No.34 was painted lined crimson, however No.17 did not receive it's red livery until 1953 and was therefore unlined. It also notes that when the green livery started to be applied in 1959 to the passenger cars some had white roofs and some grey! Keith Could this be the just the ends of the roof in white? (cf the new DMUs). The BR livery for roofs was lead grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2011 Could this be the just the ends of the roof in white? (cf the new DMUs). The BR livery for roofs was lead grey. In some cases, judging by pics, the roof ends of (some??) ex-GW cars painted green was done in white, presumably to 'match'(ish) the new Pressed Steel built cars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 An undated photo of 32 in green in the Judge book appears to show a grey roof with white ends, but others are shown with all grey. The white ends also appear on a photo of 28 in two colour livery in 1961. Otherwise, all grey appears to be the norm for the BR era. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Bit off topic, but my earliest trips on the Staines branch in the late fifties were in ex GWR railcars, all painted red and cream. I can't recall seeing a green one on the branch before the bubble cars took over. My last ever trip in an ex GWR set (33/38, green with additional coach) was from Hayes on an up suburban service, substituting for a Class 117 DMU, must have been in the early sixties. My chum and I were astonished to see this set arrive, as it didn't put in a regular appearance on services. We travelled in the coach, which seemed to have been newly painted, and I seem to remember very antiseptic in appearance, with everything painted in a gloss off white/cream, and any superfluous fittings having been removed. Just a note on my previous post for the sake of historical accuracy! I didn't want to imply that green GW railcars never went to Staines, only that I can't remember them (I was young and it was a long time ago!) However they certainly went to Uxbridge Vine St. There is a good picture of green W30 at Cowley on 4th May 1960 in "Britain's Rail Super Centres: London: The Great Western LInes" by Laurence Waters, along with a picture of a pair, both in red and cream, on the branch on the same day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm pretty sure that green was applied from 1959 so that rules out 35+36... Going ever so slightly off-topic, that date rules out all except 13 and 14 from the earlier streamlined types. Does anyone have any evidence of the earlier types appearing in green? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Chris, I had thought of posting that I remember seeing these very strange beasts in red and cream at Southall, and it must have been about 1960. Although Chris Leigh insists they were used on the Staines West Branch I don't remember them. I do remember a steam hauled train late one Saturday night, and the green DMU single unit - I did Staines to W. Drayton in the cab one Saturday when I went up to Dads office in Paddington (so probably about 1958 when office work still had Saturday attendance). Paul Bartlett I don't 'insist' without evidence, particularly as I never saw them myself. I do, however, have countless photographs of them at Staines West and elsewhere on the branch. I was told by one of the branch railwaymen that Chris Turner and I interviewed (Tom Bye the Station Master at Staines West, I Think) that the railcars were introduced on the branch in the early 1950s due to staff shortages (they needed one less crew than an autotrain). Also, I have no evidence of GREEN ones on the branch - because they were painted post-1958 by which time the Gloucester 122s were in use on the branch and the GWR cars were whisked away to Worcester. I do however recall seeing in the IA photo library, pictures of the green 2-car GWR set on the Uxbridge branch. I have never seen evidence of that on the Staines branch, though. I would put the painting of GWR cars into green no earlier than 1958 and most probably later than that. Note, also, that not all the green ones had the white/cream roof domes. At least one was plain grey. None of the streamliners (ie before No. 20) lasted long enough to receive green. It was a popular belief that one of the streamliners was used on the Staines branch in the early days, and failed to stop at Staines West, running through the stopblock and wrecking part of the station canopy. A large concrete block behind the stopblocks and a non-matching canopy column seem to bear this out. It has certainly been said that the streamliners were 'banned' from branch line use because of their poor brakes. They were used mainly on cross country and local services along main lines. CHRIS LEIGH CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 ...None of the streamliners (ie before No. 20) lasted long enough to receive green... I assume that '20' was a typo? 19 was the first of the flat panelled type, and it's a moot point whether 18 should be called a streamliner. Otherwise, I'm sure you must be right as I've just found a note in Judge that 13 and 14 were converted to parcels cars in 1959. Although they lasted until 1960, there would be no reason to paint them green in this role. Does anyone know what form the conversion took, did they panel over the windows, or just take the seats out? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I assume that '20' was a typo? 19 was the first of the flat panelled type, and it's a moot point whether 18 should be called a streamliner. Otherwise, I'm sure you must be right as I've just found a note in Judge that 13 and 14 were converted to parcels cars in 1959. Although they lasted until 1960, there would be no reason to paint them green in this role. Does anyone know what form the conversion took, did they panel over the windows, or just take the seats out? Nick Sorry, should have said 19, not 20. 18 was withdrawn in carmine and cream. I suspect the term 'converted' to parcels cars was used loosely. I think it is quite possible they were USED as parcels cars without even taking the seats out. The railbus that I used to own (W79976) worked as a parcels car between the stations in Yeovil after the Junction-Town passenger service was withdrawn. It still had its full complement of seats. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2011 None of the streamliners (ie before No. 20) lasted long enough to receive green. It was a popular belief that one of the streamliners was used on the Staines branch in the early days, and failed to stop at Staines West, running through the stopblock and wrecking part of the station canopy. A large concrete block behind the stopblocks and a non-matching canopy column seem to bear this out. It has certainly been said that the streamliners were 'banned' from branch line use because of their poor brakes. They were used mainly on cross country and local services along main lines. CHRIS LEIGH No1 was used on the Henley branch both pre & post war although no information about for post 1950. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.