Scottish Region photos 1980's

[Smallwonder]

Shiny 37403 on The Royal Scotsman at Waverley on 4 July 1989.

 

And from the front.  It was shown on the Platform display as the 1118 to Taynuilt. 

 

47715 at Waverley on 4 July 1989 propelling the 1130 to GQS.

 

26005 at Waverley on 4 July 1989 about to continue East with a civil engineers train.

 

Stirling  on 8 July 1989 for the next three:

08725

 

47570 with the 11 coach 1510 to Inverness.

 

47707 with a service south at 1325

 

And finally for now:

47378 arrives at Millerhill at 1730  on 9 July 1989 with the return working of the petfood train; the return carrying empty cans south I believe.  The train headed on south around 1755

[Smallwonder]

Some variety:

 

47147 passes Blindwells on the ECML heading towards Millerhill on 2 July 1989 with a Speedlink Coal Network train (6S43) at 1655.  By1735 it had swapped that load for some empties and was waiting to join the ECML South at Monktonhall Junction.

 

Waverley, 4 July 1989;  47470 which departed with the 1044 to Brighton.  I think it would have run round first and headed for Carstairs.

 

South end of Mossend; 37111 arrives and heads for the yard at 1315 on 19 July 1989

 

37114 passes through Waverley Eastbound at 0936 with a crane on 8 August 1989.

 

Awaiting their turns at Carstairs, 47593 and 47627 with an unidentified 47 behind on 19 July 1989 at 1615.

[Smallwonder]

Stumbled across this:

 

 

 

 

[millerhillboy]

Smallwonder, that's an incredible video, much better quality than most I've seen from that era.

[Waverley West]

Brilliant find, Smallwonder. Some great shots of Waverley and Haymarket in particular (not that I'm biased or anything). Such a wonderful era with a fantastic combination of varied and interesting traction and attractive liveries.

 

I've seen parts of that video before but I haven't seen it all for some reason. As millerhillboy says, much better quality than standard 1980s fare. I presume there's a part 2? 

 

Cheers

Dave

[keefer]

Shows well the infamous Queen St. baseboard joint at about 1:42 

 

Agreed, not seen this before and it is amazing quality

Edited March 30, 2021 by keefer

[brushman47544]

On 22/03/2021 at 22:30, Smallwonder said:

Some variety:

 

Waverley, 4 July 1989;  47470 which departed with the 1044 to Brighton.  I think it would have run round first and headed for Carstairs.

 

Rare but not unheard of to depart eastbound and go via the Edinburgh suburban. 

[John M Upton]

...and a smouldering Class 47 being attended to by the local Fire Brigade too!!! The DCC chip must have shorted out....

[John M Upton]

Ooooh, just found Part II

 

[Legend]

Yeah great finds . The year before Sprinterisation  when we had proper trains . Takes me right back ! 

[keefer]

46 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

...and a smouldering Class 47 being attended to by the local Fire Brigade too!!! The DCC chip must have shorted out....

Interesting for showing the firemen still wearing the traditional tunic/oilskins/boots and helmet.

IIRC one of the massive issues to come out of the KX fire was the generally unsuitable nature of the uniform for 'modern' times. Heavy, hot and cumbersome at times and not really offering any real heat/impact protection.

Equipment available sort-of updated gradually as new technical innovations were introduced but the uniform, often the only thing between a fireman going home or not, hadn't really changed in decades.

[Stu from EGDL]

Hi Gang;

 

Just viewed these videos on YouTube and agree that they are a cracking record of that era. The quality is excellent too which makes them such a gem. Have bookmarked them and will go through them again looking at stock formations for a future model layout.

 

Later,

Stu from EGVN

[Alcanman]

A few photos for West Highland Line fans.

 

Firstly, 37022 departing Glasgow QS.

 

Second photo shows 37264 at Oban. August 1984.

 

Lastly, 37027 'Loch Eil' makes a spirited departure from Crianlarich.

[figworthy]

9 hours ago, Alcanman said:

 

 

Is it a trick of the camera, or is the person the left leaning out of the carriage about to head butt that post ?

 

Adrian

[The Pilotman]

On 16/04/2021 at 19:44, figworthy said:

 

Is it a trick of the camera, or is the person the left leaning out of the carriage about to head butt that post ?

 

Adrian

I can see what you mean. Having had a really good look I reckon the black bit to the left of the post is a cable or pipe of some sort and not a shadow of the post on the side of the coach. Having spent a lot of my youth sticking my head out of train windows (including at that very location), I can safely say you’d need to lean out a bit further to hit anything on the line side.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Western Aviator

[mallaig1983]

Well I’ve been optically illuded. Looking at the photo over and over again the post was definitely very close to the carriage. Looking again with your explanation in mind and it’s obviously not. The eyes play tricks. 

[Alcanman]

37264 at a rainy Fort William, August 1984.

 

The loco was very busy on the West Highland line during the last week of August 1984 working trains to both Oban and Fort William.

[hexagon789]

I have often wondered if DBSOs were ever used as conventional brake vehicles. Obviously there were occasions where the push-pull equipment failed or a non-push-pull loco was provided and so the DBSO would be acting as a conventional brake van, but I had yet to come across one seemingly being used simply as a BSO essentially in a train that is not a push-pull set (at least it doesn't appear to be) but is being hauled by a 47/7. 

 

I found this on Flickr this evening and there are a few intriguing points someone may be able to surmise/suggest reasons behind:

 

(Copyright Walter Burt flickr)

 

According to the caption a Edinburgh-Inverness service, and indeed bar the leading coach a fairly conventional Inverness set with the addition of a BG, which was by no means unusual particularly it seemed in the summer.

 

However, instead of a Mk2C BSO, we have a DBSO. There is also a 47/7, but if this is an Edinburgh-Inverness I wouldn't imagine the train was intended to operate as push-pull (I think only the Jacobite ever did?) and the loco is hauling from the front not propelling anyway.

 

The question is really why the inclusion of the DBSO? There weren't exactly plenty to be used as normal brakes, or at least they never seem to have been used like that. If it was the only brake vehicle I could perhaps understand its inclusion as a last resort necessity but there is a BG on the rear, so the train has a brake van without it.

 

All in all I'm intrigued to say the least!

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

I have often wondered if DBSOs were ever used as conventional brake vehicles. Obviously there were occasions where the push-pull equipment failed or a non-push-pull loco was provided and so the DBSO would be acting as a conventional brake van, but I had yet to come across one seemingly being used simply as a BSO essentially in a train that is not a push-pull set (at least it doesn't appear to be) but is being hauled by a 47/7. 

 

I found this on Flickr this evening and there are a few intriguing points someone may be able to surmise/suggest reasons behind:

 

(Copyright Walter Burt flickr)

 

According to the caption a Edinburgh-Inverness service, and indeed bar the leading coach a fairly conventional Inverness set with the addition of a BG, which was by no means unusual particularly it seemed in the summer.

 

However, instead of a Mk2C BSO, we have a DBSO. There is also a 47/7, but if this is an Edinburgh-Inverness I wouldn't imagine the train was intended to operate as push-pull (I think only the Jacobite ever did?) and the loco is hauling from the front not propelling anyway.

 

The question is really why the inclusion of the DBSO? There weren't exactly plenty to be used as normal brakes, or at least they never seem to have been used like that. If it was the only brake vehicle I could perhaps understand its inclusion as a last resort necessity but there is a BG on the rear, so the train has a brake van without it.

 

All in all I'm intrigued to say the least!

 

Could it even have been something like the driver not trained on DBSO's but driving from the Class 47 would be no problem?

[hexagon789]

18 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Could it even have been something like the driver not trained on DBSO's but driving from the Class 47 would be no problem?

Well yes, but if this was an Edinburgh-Inverness service they weren't booked for push-pull working anyway. And the DBSOs were essentially captive to the ScotRail Express routes of Edinburgh-Glasgow, Glasgow-Aberdeen and for a brief period Edinburgh-Aberdeen.

 

If it is an Edinburgh-Inverness service, the inclusion of a DBSO would be in my opinion extremely rare if not unheard of outside of a proper push-pull set and that's what intrigued me - I've seen probably hundreds of photos of ScotRail operations in the 1980s, but this is the first time I've seen a DBSO in a conventional Inverness set. I have seen a DBSO used with Mk2 PVs from the Inverness allocation on Aberdeen-Glasgow but that was being worked as a push-pull set vice Mk2 air-cons which were likely in for painting at the time. This is different.

Edited March 6, 2022 by hexagon789

[turbos]

2 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

I have often wondered if DBSOs were ever used as conventional brake vehicles. Obviously there were occasions where the push-pull equipment failed or a non-push-pull loco was provided and so the DBSO would be acting as a conventional brake van, but I had yet to come across one seemingly being used simply as a BSO essentially in a train that is not a push-pull set (at least it doesn't appear to be) but is being hauled by a 47/7. 

 

I found this on Flickr this evening and there are a few intriguing points someone may be able to surmise/suggest reasons behind:

 

(Copyright Walter Burt flickr)

 

According to the caption a Edinburgh-Inverness service, and indeed bar the leading coach a fairly conventional Inverness set with the addition of a BG, which was by no means unusual particularly it seemed in the summer.

 

However, instead of a Mk2C BSO, we have a DBSO. There is also a 47/7, but if this is an Edinburgh-Inverness I wouldn't imagine the train was intended to operate as push-pull (I think only the Jacobite ever did?) and the loco is hauling from the front not propelling anyway.

 

The question is really why the inclusion of the DBSO? There weren't exactly plenty to be used as normal brakes, or at least they never seem to have been used like that. If it was the only brake vehicle I could perhaps understand its inclusion as a last resort necessity but there is a BG on the rear, so the train has a brake van without it.

 

All in all I'm intrigued to say the least!

I wouldn’t read too much into the ScotRail 47/7 on a non push-pull service, it did happen occasionally, when a 47/7 was out of exam miles it could revert to being used as a 47/4 which had a less intense exam mileage schedule. The Edinburgh - Carstairs 1Bxx was a favourite for 47/7 being used as a 47/4 to keep them local to Haymarket Depot for it’s outstanding 47/7 exam.

The DBSO is the real intrigue, it appeared to be quite normal for Edinburgh/Glasgow - Inverness services in the mid 1980s to have more than one guards coach (as many as five BSO on occasion). I believe it was for the van space, but as a DBSO had reduced van space due to the driving cab it really does make it a strange choice, but it’s part of what made ScotRail at that time so interesting!

 

Brian. 

 

[hexagon789]

5 minutes ago, turbos said:

I wouldn’t read too much into the ScotRail 47/7 on a non push-pull service, it did happen occasionally, when a 47/7 was out of exam miles it could revert to being used as a 47/4 which had a less intense exam mileage schedule. The Edinburgh - Carstairs 1Bxx was a favourite for 47/7 being used as a 47/4 to keep them local to Haymarket Depot for it’s outstanding 47/7 exam.

Oh I didn't read anything into the loco provided being a push-pull 47/7, I took that to be mere coincidence with the DBSO being there. As you say, it was - not perhaps common but a frequent enough occurrence - to have 47/7s on non-push-pull workings such as to Inverness. 

 

7 minutes ago, turbos said:

The DBSO is the real intrigue, it appeared to be quite normal for Edinburgh/Glasgow - Inverness services in the mid 1980s to have more than one guards coach (as many as five BSO on occasion). I believe it was for the van space, but as a DBSO had reduced van space due to the driving cab it really does make it a strange choice, but it’s part of what made ScotRail at that time so interesting!

That was the intriguing point for me, because it seemed so unusual. I know that the DBSO were supposedly originally converted with brake end gangway connection intact to permit use as a conventional brake and conventional carriage within a formation if needed but that never appears to have happened as intended. 

 

Indeed it is, there are plenty if quirky formations and workings.

 

One other one I still haven't got my head round is the Sundays Only inclusion of one of Polmadie's Mk1 BSOT in the formation of the Aberdeen Mk3 set in the mid-1980s. Seems such a peculiar arrangement but it's there in the carriage workings and there are a few photos showing that it did happen in practice.

[Steven B]

It could be something as simple as a fault with the TDM remote control system.

 

You'd often find something similar with Mk3 and Mk4 DVT, with the loco leading with the DVT directly behind.

 

Steven B.

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

It could be something as simple as a fault with the TDM remote control system.

As I said though, I don't think it's meant to be a push-pull working failed control system or otherwise 

 

1. Because the Inverness trains were not booked push-pull

 

2. Because the carriages behind the DBSO fit the standard formation of the Inverness-Edinburgh/Glasgow formations (CK-TSOT-TSO-TSO-BSO sometimes augmented with a BG, TSO(s) and even extra BSO), and its pulling into Platform 5 so it's not an Aberdeen service.

 

3. Because while 47/7s did appear on Highland Main Line workings, there not being a huge number of the subclass meant it wasn't an extremely frequent occurrence but did happen at times.

 

My feeling is still a DBSO replacing an unavailable BSO ad hoc.

Edited March 7, 2022 by hexagon789

[meanach]

In the latest Railway Modeller mag there is a great exhibition layout called ‘Little Aire’ . One of the shots inside ( page 239) shows a crane, which I believe is the same one that graces the rear of the book ‘Scottish Class 37s’ . The photo shows 37051 in the snow hauling a short wheelbase crane . My question to you all is has anyone produced this as a kit ? I’ve been wanting one for some time . Ian