coachmann Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Edited Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Looks marvellous again Larry. I've got more than a passing interest in ex-LMS catering vehicles at the moment as I'm trying to find out what was used on the Thames-Forth/Waverley prior to the introduction of MK1 catering vehicles on this run. dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 As ever - stunning!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Looks marvellous again Larry. I've got more than a passing interest in ex-LMS catering vehicles at the moment as I'm trying to find out what was used on the Thames-Forth/Waverley prior to the introduction of MK1 catering vehicles on this run. dave. Ditto! The LMS Passenger train formations is a good start, but doesnt go far enough in terms of diagrams - would these have changed particularly regularly? IIRC, the Waverley does at least have a 1960 formation in the book, while the Thames Clyde has a jump from 1955 to 1965. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan100 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 "a set of Stanier Period III sides to D.1938 has been ordered this morning" and will be posted to you today, so should be with your postie tomorrow, so do we expect the photograph of the finished coach on Thursday? ;-) Geoff (Comet) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Rhys Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Is it not possible to identify dining vehicles from photographs? The Firsts, thirds and compos all had different window arrangements, which helps. I don't know much about the Waverley route, although I have enjoyed the Argo Transacord LP, and I assumed it was an LNER route. But Larry, I thought you would be able to identify at least the LMS Coach Diagrams by the different sounds they make as they pass the microphone... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I have always been puzzled why the LMS had so few buffet cars. The company only built five throughout its history and inherited just 14 tea cars from the LNWR and nothing at all from the Midland Railway. Obviously the long distance services were suited to dining cars, but surely services (say) along the North Wales coast were eminently suited to more informal catering facilities? My thoughts are that the MR had an abhorence towards buffet cars that was adopted by the LMS? But is this true and, if so, why? Because the LNER had a large fleet of buffet cars; and the Southern had a few, although they preferred to call them pantry cars. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Looks marvellous again Larry. I've got more than a passing interest in ex-LMS catering vehicles at the moment as I'm trying to find out what was used on the Thames-Forth/Waverley prior to the introduction of MK1 catering vehicles on this run. dave. Max. While I haven't any information on diagram numbers for the catering vehicles used on this train, which is probably what you are after, the following might be of some use. According to the Summer 1959 LMR Central Lines marshalling booklet there were two train sets covering this service. One is shown as having Restaurant First and the other a Restaurant Second [there are other minor differences in each train's formation as well, the RF has a FK on one side of it and a SK on the other, whereas the RS has a Compost Open on one side and a SO on the other]. The restaurant vehicles have a Y code against them which is noted as meaning fitted with gangway adaptors, which would seem to indicate LMS stock. All the other vehicles are marked Z which is BR standard stock, though following an enquiry on RMweb some time ago it was decided that the CO, while marked Z, was in fact an ex LMS vehicle, there being no BR standard COs. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Larry - your Dia D1196 has the '1' designation in three places along the side, although only one's on a door, was this usual Midland Rly., practice, I expected the Class Designation to just be on the doors, granted on the kitchen side there's only one passenger access door. I'm not querying what you've done, just never noticed it before, but then I haven't seen such good models either, which helps you see see the 'details'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 "...According to the Summer 1959 LMR Central Lines marshalling booklet there were two train sets covering this service. One is shown as having Restaurant First and the other a Restaurant Second [there are other minor differences in each train's formation as well, the RF has a FK on one side of it and a SK on the other, whereas the RS has a Compost Open on one side and a SO on the other]. The restaurant vehicles have a Y code against them which is noted as meaning fitted with gangway adaptors, which would seem to indicate LMS stock. All the other vehicles are marked Z which is BR standard stock, though following an enquiry on RMweb some time ago it was decided that the CO, while marked Z, was in fact an ex LMS vehicle, there being no BR standard COs. Jeremy ..." Thanks for this information Jeremy, it's actually pretty useful to me. I assume these were Period 3 stock? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz-r Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Max, In answer to your question on the Thames-Forth/Waverley. I have researched this topic as I model the train (The Waverley) in 1957/58. Both Clive Carter's 'Passenger Train Formations LMS-LM Region' and Xpress Publishing's 'Operation Midland' agree that in 1955 the catering vehicle on this train was an LMS Restaurant Third which operated as a buffet and consequently there was no other open coach in the formation. This must have been a period III vehicle as the LMS only built restaurant thirds in this period. This changed, according to Roger Haigh's article on The Waverley (Steam Days, Sept.2006), with the introduction of the summer timetable in 1957 when the train became 'The Waverley' and was accelerated to XL timings on the Midland Division. The new formation included an LMS Restaurant First which ran with a BR Mk.1 TSO. Photographic evidence indicates that that the Restaurant First was a period II vehicle. I believe this continued until the introduction of a BR Mk.1 catering vehicle in the formation. Topaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talyllyn1 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The D1938 composite dining car is awaiting table lamps and so the roof was not secured when the following photos were taken, hence the un-trimmed unpainted end pipes. I'd be interested in how you are going to do these Larry. From photo's they look the same type as fitted to the D1948 buffet cars, and I noticed you have fitted them in your model of one. I can't make up my mind whether they would have been brass or chrome plated. My thoughts are revolving around using small brass or steel paper clips for the curving "upright". I also notice that you've put BR 1st class "sausages" on the two wider (nominally first class) seating bay windows of your D1938 RC. As you have already stated, these vehicles were "flexible" in their seating arrangements to suit demand. As I'm planning a BR maroon version I'd be interested to know if the window "sausages" were also applied with this livery. I'm also trying to find out if they had the BR coaching stock roundel in BR maroon. I've seen a photo of a maroon period 3 restaurant third without one, and I've always assumed that the restaurant firsts had them, but the composites? I can't find any photos of them in BR maroon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talyllyn1 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Hi Talyllin1, The end handrails were in fact water filler pipes to feed the toilet systerns. They were always painted black even when ends were lake. I use .45 brass Hi Larry, Sorry, but I thnk you misunderstood my question. I was refering to the table lamps, not the water filler pipes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 That is absoloutly outstanding coach, the livery sits so much better and really defines the lines of the coach, superb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 It looks amazing now Larry, not that it was bad before. Whose bogies are you using? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Larry Where do your 6 wheel bogies come from please. About to start my own D1811 - when it arrives from Mr Brewin. regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted November 27, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2011 Coach how do you do the Stones ventilators on the restaurant car? You have probably explained this but I have missed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted November 27, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2011 I gave my design to a chap that drew them on CAD and then had them etched into nickel silver sheet. I sprayed the sheet matt black and rubbed it down until the surface was polished as one would with nameplates. Ta for that - might see if Mr Edge could do some for me as I have one or two coaches which will need them when built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 [On the more important long distance trains a Kitchen Car was used with open coaches on either side. The roof and chassis detail of a 50' kitchen car is shown below. Note the gas cylinders, as these coaches were gas lit. Model by I. Willetts Hello, This is my first post here so if I've done it wrong, sorry. I'm really impressed by these coaches, and I note the P1 kitchen car with interest as I am currently making a model of the P3 version. I need to know if the underframe and roof layout for the P3 version would have been the same as the photo? Also where do you get the information from - i can't find anything in the Jenkinson/ Essery books. Thanks for any help. Regards, Nigel H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 Hi Nigel, If you buy a set of coach sides or a full kit from Comet Models, they usually contain enough details in instructions to carry out the detail work. I photographed Ian Willetts Kitchen Car in case I ever build one, as it is this kind of detail that is sometimes missing from scale drawing. Thank you for your reply, but the model I am making is in 2mm finescale so I don't have the Comet information. Maybe I can quiz them at an exhibition. They're usually very chatty and helpful. Regards, Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 Thank you for your reply, but the model I am making is in 2mm finescale so I don't have the Comet information. Maybe I can quiz them at an exhibition. They're usually very chatty and helpful. Regards, Nigel Just looked at the Comet website - the info I needed is there! Regards, Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted March 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2012 Further to my previous posts concerning a P3 kitchen car, can anyone advise of the position of the branding 'Kitchen' / 'Car' and post 1956 emblem on maroon liveried stock please? Regards, Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2012 I don't model much of LMS, but those coaches are lovely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted March 29, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2012 Hello, Apart from light weathering, my kitchen car is now finished and here are a couple of photos. Not up to coachman's standards, but one of my better ones. Thanks again for help with brandings. I decided not to bother with the emblem. Regards, Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabber Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Apart from light weathering, my kitchen car is now finished and here are a couple of photos. Not up to coachman's standards, but one of my better ones. Thanks again for help with brandings. I decided not to bother with the emblem. Hi Nigel, that looks rather nice! Do you have any more photos during construction? How do you do your lining? I've built a couple of coach kits in 2mm, but nothing with lining so far. thanks, Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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