MRA wagons

[TomScrut]

11 minutes ago, Bearwood West Yard said:

I read somewhere, think it was on Dapol's Digest forum that it wouldn't be economical to produce given rising costs. I remember it was quoted that models would fetch around the £225 mark a set. Though, for a set of five highly detailed wagons that works out to be around £45 a wagon. Expensive but seeming to become the norm. They do pop up from time to time on ebay and I saw the listing you're referring to.. so rare now that they go for silly money. Originally wanted the NR ex-railtrack grey/blue ones but getting into the hobby late, its get what you can get. Got a yellow set second hand off a facebook group and by chance stumbled across a Railtrack set in the most unlikely of places in town, an instant buy. I cycled to college that week instead of getting the bus after looking at my bank account  

 

Hahaha its a yellow set I want really but would settle for grey/blue NR branded for the right price. £45 a wagon isn't bad for what looks a complex wagon. When you think Bachmann want £50 for a HHA which whilst is a bigger wagon is nowhere near as complex. When looking at the second hand market though a rake of JNAs can be built for less than half that price at about £20 a wagon and are slightly longer than MRAs. Mix in some MOAs and the value for money increases further as they are about the same cost but longer. Whilst not as nice a wagon a JNA/MOA rake would have similar uses I expect? I want the MRA rake as I already have JNA/MOAs in one rake!

[Bearwood West Yard]

24 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Hahaha its a yellow set I want really but would settle for grey/blue NR branded for the right price. £45 a wagon isn't bad for what looks a complex wagon. When you think Bachmann want £50 for a HHA which whilst is a bigger wagon is nowhere near as complex. When looking at the second hand market though a rake of JNAs can be built for less than half that price at about £20 a wagon and are slightly longer than MRAs. Mix in some MOAs and the value for money increases further as they are about the same cost but longer. Whilst not as nice a wagon a JNA/MOA rake would have similar uses I expect? I want the MRA rake as I already have JNA/MOAs in one rake!

I bought the grey/blue set with hopes of re-vinyling it to Network Rail. Haven't bought any MOA's for my rake of JNA's though, so used to seeing the MLA's in yellow and maroon my OCD would overload lol. Another MRA run would be nice but until price of manufacture vs affordability comes down, its too much of a financial risk for the company given the size of batch to be produced to be economical vs the known demand. Though I would assume they still have the tooling so never say never  

[big jim]

I got a set from the Dapol shop a few years back when they were selling them off because of a very slight livery error, if I remember right I gave about £90 for the set 

 

I had so much hassle trying to get them to stay on the track with the pi$$ poor coupling system I ended up modifying them with Roco loop couplings before getting totally fed up with them and flogging them on, (wish I hadn’t now though) 

[Dungrange]

I agree that the internal coupling system is a poor design.  I think I've got three of these sets, but nowhere to run them until I get my layout built.  However, I wasn't impressed with the coupling when running them on a club layout: there was a tendency for wagons to come apart under tension.  I'll need to research what others have done once my layout is operational.

[classy52]

In 2015 I got 3 different sets (B859A-NR Yellow, B859B-NR Blue/Grey & B859D-NR Yellow) at London Ally Pally for £85 each at the Dapol stand as they were trying to get rid of them, I think they were one of the very first wagons I bought and they looked so impressive!

Spending £255 on 3 MRA sets was a shock to the system at the time as I was only into the hobby for the first time for less than 6 months and when I got home that evening from my first ever attended exhibition the look on my wife's face was priceless...all I heard was 'find a different hobby!'

Anyway those 3 sets are still in their plastic film wrap unopened in the cupboard due to ever struggling to find space to build a decent layout which is still on-going today lol...must admit I don't think I'll ever sell them.

[SouthernMafia]

I remember picking my NR set up from Dapol at Ally Pally for £50, as it had no couplings. Since they're useless anyway that didn't bother me and both my rakes are now fitted with Kadees. Brings the hideous gap between the wagons nicely together.

 

Think I also got 6 JNAs for £50, how times change!

[TomScrut]

13 minutes ago, SouthernMafia said:

I remember picking my NR set up from Dapol at Ally Pally for £50, as it had no couplings. Since they're useless anyway that didn't bother me and both my rakes are now fitted with Kadees. Brings the hideous gap between the wagons nicely together.

 

Think I also got 6 JNAs for £50, how times change!

 

Wow they were bargains then!

 

Time machine required I think!

[Dungrange]

Has anyone fitted Hunt Elite Couplings to these wagons to replace the internal couplings between wagons?

 

https://www.westhillwagonworks.co.uk/hunt-couplings-c-2/hunt-couplings-elite-oo-gauge-c-21/hunt-couplings-elite-coupling-pack-for-Dapol-mra-mrc-wagons-oo-gauge-p-171

 

I'm sure that they must be better than the Dapol coupling, but they look too far apart in the photograph on the West Hill Wagon Works website.

[Bearwood West Yard]

8 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Has anyone fitted Hunt Elite Couplings to these wagons to replace the internal couplings between wagons?

I have to both of my MRA sets. The distance is about the same as the standard Dapol drawbars if not slightly wider. They’re a lot better than the drawbars and don’t randomly unhook, so imo a worthy compromise.

[TomScrut]

16 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Has anyone fitted Hunt Elite Couplings to these wagons to replace the internal couplings between wagons?

 

https://www.westhillwagonworks.co.uk/hunt-couplings-c-2/hunt-couplings-elite-oo-gauge-c-21/hunt-couplings-elite-coupling-pack-for-Dapol-mra-mrc-wagons-oo-gauge-p-171

 

I'm sure that they must be better than the Dapol coupling, but they look too far apart in the photograph on the West Hill Wagon Works website.

 

A definite improvement. One issue I had with one of mine was that the wires inside the wagon weren't holding the block in so I had to jury rig one out if a normal elite.

 

Another thing, which is a limitation of Hunt couplers in general is that my rake of 10 can break up at the slightest hint of additional friction, although touch wood have been OK recently after I fitted them with Bachmann wheels (Dapol flanges too shallow for the undulations on my layout) and lubricated them.

[mevaman1]

I have recently fitted Hunts to my MRAs.  Some were a bit fiddly to fit as the small wire in the MRA pocket needed pushing down with a small screwdriver in order for the coupling to be a tight fit.

 

The couplings make a huge difference as each wagon in a 5 set can be individually placed on the track before coupling up.  I have run 2 MRA sets together and the Hunts have performed really well.

 

Andrew

[TomScrut]

13 minutes ago, mevaman1 said:

Some were a bit fiddly to fit as the small wire in the MRA pocket needed pushing down with a small screwdriver in order for the coupling to be a tight fit.

 

That's what I found but unfortunately I think one of mine had broken or something so no amount of bending would do it.

 

Funny how these amazing wagons are let down by such a silly thing.

[djparkins]

On 19/08/2011 at 09:54, DapolDave said:

Hi everyone,

 

The MRA wagon decorated samples are in from China.

Here is a selection of pictures of the first one in Network Rail.

 

Things still to improve include the tilting mechanism, the opening side doors and their stored location when in transit, and we are trying to lower the all up weight of the set.

 

The set has now been passed onto Network Rail for their comments and approval prior to massed production (pending the above).

 

Please note the side doors on the picture are not distorted in reality on the model, and this is a product of photo manipulation to get the set in 1 picture.

 

Despite rising prices in the Far East, itsalso worth noting that we have kept the price for the complete 5 car 'book set' at the originally quoted £125.00 per set.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Hello -

 

Are these on the cards for 7mm? They would be good for use with the upcoming Class 66?

[Dungrange]

3 hours ago, djparkins said:

Are these on the cards for 7mm? They would be good for use with the upcoming Class 66?

 

I've no idea, but given that Dave moved on from Dapol several years ago and Dapol have indicated that they are unlikely to re-run these in 00 due to costs having doubled over the last decade (ie they would have to charge £250 for a set in 00), I can't imagine they will be produced in 7 mm scale.  Each set would be around seven foot long and probably cost something like £700.  Are there enough interested 7 mm modellers to make that viable?

[Bearwood West Yard]

28 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Each set would be around seven foot long and probably cost something like £700.  Are there enough interested 7 mm modellers to make that viable?

Agreed. I asked the question back in 2019 on the Dapol Digest as I was hunting for a OO rake and the costs of another run are BEP. The demand in O gauge would be rather minute given that there isn’t a great deal of present day modern stock about and most opt for OO in the garden. There are a few modellers though such as Dave Lowery, a professional model maker who has scratchbuilt many modern OO wagons and sets, though plans have been obtained through commissioned works for EWS/DB etc. With 7mm especially, scratchbuilding is a lot easier than OO! 

[djparkins]

1 hour ago, Dungrange said:

 

I've no idea, but given that Dave moved on from Dapol several years ago and Dapol have indicated that they are unlikely to re-run these in 00 due to costs having doubled over the last decade (ie they would have to charge £250 for a set in 00), I can't imagine they will be produced in 7 mm scale.  Each set would be around seven foot long and probably cost something like £700.  Are there enough interested 7 mm modellers to make that viable?

 

Well they must think there is a market for a Class 66 at least! And they will need something contemporary to pull.

[Dungrange]

43 minutes ago, djparkins said:

Well they must think there is a market for a Class 66 at least! And they will need something contemporary to pull.

Yes, but there are plenty who simply buy a locomotive for a depot style layout, for which a Class 66 would be required, but an MRA set would not.  Then there are those who build relatively small inglenook style shunting layouts, for which a Class 66 could be an appropriate locomotive for shunting stock, but the layout probably won't have the space for a seven foot long indivisible set of wagons, as it would require a layout at least 15 foot long to simply transfer them from one siding to another.  Apart from large club layouts or gardens railways, I struggle to see the market for an O Gauge set.  I'd anticipate the demand for a Class 66 to be at least ten times the demand for a set of MRA wagons.

[newbryford]

Referring to the prototype, there are a number of MRA wagons going for conversion to a fixed low side box body similar to the JNA Falcons and ex- BDA Lobsters that are now coded MXA.

Some may be converted to single wagons by adding buffers.

[djparkins]

1 hour ago, Dungrange said:

Yes, but there are plenty who simply buy a locomotive for a depot style layout, for which a Class 66 would be required, but an MRA set would not.  Then there are those who build relatively small inglenook style shunting layouts, for which a Class 66 could be an appropriate locomotive for shunting stock, but the layout probably won't have the space for a seven foot long indivisible set of wagons, as it would require a layout at least 15 foot long to simply transfer them from one siding to another.  Apart from large club layouts or gardens railways, I struggle to see the market for an O Gauge set.  I'd anticipate the demand for a Class 66 to be at least ten times the demand for a set of MRA wagons.

 

Oh well - sorry I asked! I obviously know nothing about the 7mm market.

 

David Parkins

Modern Motive Power

[newbryford]

On 14/11/2021 at 16:06, newbryford said:

Referring to the prototype, there are a number of MRA wagons going for conversion to a fixed low side box body similar to the JNA Falcons and ex- BDA Lobsters that are now coded MXA.

Some may be converted to single wagons by adding buffers.

 

https://www.eastmidlandsbusinesslink.co.uk/mag/featured/loram-uk-lands-multi-million-pound-deal-with-network-rail/?fbclid=IwAR3_gu-5Rwz1ad_GaYy6hhFoxqoyVaOqu8EjKhHNg7K1hc5NumYwHMYLyYY

 

Like the use of the model pic in the article.

[Michael Hodgson]

How does removing the tipping facility make the wagons more  flexible?  Surely all they need do is refrain from tipping if it's inappropriate.  Are they increasing the capacity or adding something?

[newbryford]

1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

How does removing the tipping facility make the wagons more  flexible?  Surely all they need do is refrain from tipping if it's inappropriate.  Are they increasing the capacity or adding something?

 

The tipping gear has never been reliable and in most (all?) case now isolated,

Many of them are currently stored OOU.

There is one regular duty at the moment for a few sets, the almost 5 days per week 6C89 Mountsorrel-Carlisle VQ bulk ballast (made up of 4x sets) and return. From what I've seen, all of them are labelled "generator isolated" or similar, so unloaded by grab.

 

Part of the reason for the JNA Falcons and MXA Lobsters being "low and long" makes them easier to use on site with Road/Rail units whilst maximising weight capacity. The existing box bodies on MRAs are taller than JNA/MXA.

At least they're reusing perfectly good underframes with this project.

 

There are new IOA style higher/shorter boxes currently being delivered by Wascosa as part of this deal for bulk ballast use. The first ones are due in the UK imminently.

 

 

 

[gary_lner]

10 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

The tipping gear has never been reliable and in most (all?) case now isolated,

Many of them are currently stored OOU.

There is one regular duty at the moment for a few sets, the almost 5 days per week 6C89 Mountsorrel-Carlisle VQ bulk ballast (made up of 4x sets) and return. From what I've seen, all of them are labelled "generator isolated" or similar, so unloaded by grab.

 

Part of the reason for the JNA Falcons and MXA Lobsters being "low and long" makes them easier to use on site with Road/Rail units whilst maximising weight capacity. The existing box bodies on MRAs are taller than JNA/MXA.

At least they're reusing perfectly good underframes with this project.

 

There are new IOA style higher/shorter boxes currently being delivered by Wascosa as part of this deal for bulk ballast use. The first ones are due in the UK imminently.

 

 

 

25 of the new wagons were spotted last week by trains_by_lorrydsbon on instagram. Tgry were seen in Woking going to eastleigh east yard. Thanks for the link on the info about the wagons I couldn't find anything about them.

 

Regards Gary 

[newbryford]

12 minutes ago, gary_lner said:

25 of the new wagons were spotted last week by trains_by_lorrydsbon on instagram. Tgry were seen in Woking going to eastleigh east yard. Thanks for the link on the info about the wagons I couldn't find anything about them.

 

Regards Gary 

 

Flickr pic of the new high boxes.

 

One for @Revolution Mike to do?

Edited November 17, 2021 by newbryford

[TomScrut]

13 minutes ago, newbryford said:

One for @Revolution Mike to do?

 

I don't need more yellow wagons having got JNA Falcons, MRAs and IOAs but I would probably be keen 

 

I although if a lot of MRAs are out of use maybe with my layout being based 2020-2021 that I should move my 10 on to replace with something else. I probably won't as they are awesome wagons!

 

On 14/11/2021 at 16:56, djparkins said:

Oh well - sorry I asked! I obviously know nothing about the 7mm market.

 

I think the point is more that if somebody was tooling a modern 7mm wagon, why choose one that only runs in multiples of 5? Something like a JNA or IOA could be done so the cost (and space) for entry is for 1 upwards not 5 upwards. I do however know literally nothing about the 7mm market but it just sounds like common sense.

 

On 14/11/2021 at 16:06, newbryford said:

there are a number of MRA wagons going for conversion to a fixed low side box body similar to the JNA Falcons

 

The article says "over 250", and 400 were made AFAIK. I wonder if that means all of them (are all of them actually still around? What happened to the Metronet ones?) or some are going to be left as is.