OO gauge Turbot

[Butler Henderson]

Sort of model the NEM363 mount was designed for but aside from Vi Trains use of it is has never featured on UK stock.

[Swindon 123]

For the great yellow debate, heres my shot fo the first one I ever came across at Harwich Parkeston Quay in April 1984. The Dapol Yellow seems a good match to my eyeCBR-5-126 by Paul James, on Flickre.   

 

And a couple more at Temple Mills a couple of months later. The yellow did seem to weather down quickly.

CBR8-031 by Paul James, on Flickr

 

 

Paul J.

 

Edited to correct a couple of silly spelling mistakes.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Swindon 123

[hmrspaul]

Very elusive colours. The beginning of my collection has Turbots only 5 weeks or so old and twice scanned - to improve quality for Dapol or Kernow, (I can't remember which) but show how the same scanner, but different ages and software can alter the colour. Judge for yourselves https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brturbot the low quality old [m] ones are probably closer to original, in bright sunshine which really brings the yellow out.

 

Paul

[SouthernMafia]

Fettled with my 3 Dutch Turbots this afternoon to have a look at shortening the standard NEM couplings (and replace with Bachmann NEMs in line with most of my other stock, find they are much better than Hornby/Dapol versions)

 

Much improved but still a bigger gap than the bar coupling provided by Dapol, but think it's the closest they will get. I will probably run it as a block train anyway so the bar couplings suit me on the inners for whenever I get anymore...!

 

NEM mod on the left, bar coupling on the right. You probably could get the NEM shorter but might compromise on strength.

Edited January 16, 2019 by SouthernMafia

[Kylestrome]

I've just received my example and my first impression is that it is a very fine model indeed, although I've not yet seen the yellow under my layout's daylight lighting. With all its fine detail, especially the underframe, it ought to be an ideal wagon to just 'plonk' on a P4 layout. Unfortunately, it will not be the simple drop-in wheelset conversion that we are used to from the likes of Bachmann and Hornby.

 

The bogies run on 24mm pin-point axles and the side frames are only 21mm apart. There is not enough 'meat' for them to be filed thinner to accept P4 wheels. I will be looking at the possibility of finding etched metal bogie replacements, and possibly using the Dapol side frames cosmetically, or substituting the bogies with those from the Cambrian kit.

 

David 

[Porcy Mane]

I thought whilst looking at the published phots on here and comparing them to prototype pics, the models bogies looked a little inset. Thanks for confirming it.

Having looked again at some model phots, I suspect the inset may be to allow clearance between the bogie & truss rods on small radii trackwork.

 

Looks like it will be Bedford, Masokits or more than likely, adapted Rumney bogies for my BBE.

 

One of those occasions were it would have been nice if there had been a bit of liaison between the manufacturer & the S4 & EM societies much in the way of the Accurascale way.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Porcy Mane

[26power]

Caption to Romney Models picture of a Bogie Bolster E (http://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/bogie-steel-wagon-kits) says it uses a Cambrian Models/Masokits combination for the bogie.

 

Stenson Models also has an increasing range of parts, including bogies. Are these the right ones:?

http://www.stensonmodels.co.uk/product/bogie-kit-4mm-davis-lloyd-5-6-wheelbase-rigid/

or

http://www.stensonmodels.co.uk/product/bogie-4mm-davis-and-lloyd-esc-cc03b/

 

 

I thought whilst looking at the published phots on here and comparing them to prototype pics, the models bogies looked a little inset. Thanks for confirming it.

Having looked again at some model phots, I suspect the inset may be to allow clearance between the bogie & truss rods on small radii trackwork.

 

Looks like it will be Bedford, Masokits or more than likely, adapted Rumney bogies for my BBE.

 

One of those occasions were it would have been nice if there had been a bit of liaison between the manufacturer & the S4 & EM societies much in the way of the Accurascale way.

[Porcy Mane]

Are these the right ones:?

 

 

Look to be. I'd forgot about that option.

 

Maybe they would do a deal if you wanted to retain the Dapol outer frames making the supplied pewter castings superfluous? That's why I think I'll adapt these.

 

http://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/freight-bogies

Edited January 18, 2019 by Porcy Mane

[Southernman46]

What fantastic wagons and for just £21 a pop - well done Dapol !!

 

Looking forward to the BEV

[jonhall]

I thought whilst looking at the published phots on here and comparing them to prototype pics, the models bogies looked a little inset. Thanks for confirming it.

Having looked again at some model phots, I suspect the inset may be to allow clearance between the bogie & truss rods on small radii trackwork.

 

Looks like it will be Bedford, Masokits or more than likely, adapted Rumney bogies for my BBE.

 

One of those occasions were it would have been nice if there had been a bit of liaison between the manufacturer & the S4 & EM societies much in the way of the Accurascale way.

 

 

Perhaps worth offering that I do an etched inner intended for the old Cambrian Sealion Gloucester bogie (so a slightly different shape) that would at least be right wheelbase and have holes in the sideframes in broadly the right places, £2.50 a pair plus the cost of a 1st class stamp for 1 or many sets. PM for details.

 

This shows the Cambrian Gloucester (left) and Davies and Lloyd (turbot) overlaying a printout of my original design, as can be seen from the lower photo I added the holes behind the frame so they are see-through in the production etch. It also includes hopper and brake wheels for Seacow/lion

 

 

Jon

Edited January 18, 2019 by jonhall

[Rivercider]

Hi Paul, Did rakes of Turbots ever use a brake van, Ive looked through many photos but cannot find an answer as most pics only show individual wagons.

 

Turbots were introduced from 1982, by which time large parts of the BR network had already become, or were about to become, a fully fitted railway.

I think one of the reasons for the turbot conversion programme was to help to eliminate the large numbers of unfitted ballast/spoil wagons in the civil engineers fleet.

Therefore on engineering jobs they tended to be used in blocks, on fully fitted vacuum braked trains.

That is not to say that at times they may have run in a partly fitted train with brake van in some parts of the network, either with unfitted wagons or with a mix of air-braked stock.

 

cheers 

[Foden]

On the colour debate, I've managed to get a moment to compare the Dapol Turbot with some other 'dutch' opens. Although it's obvious the yellow is somewhat brighter than the others, it's not too in your face, and I dare say it will dull down nicely.

 

Here's a quick lineup, draw your own conclusions from viewing distance (excuse the mess!)....

 

 

R-L:
Flangeways Mermaid

Dapol Grampus, Turbot

Hornby Clam, Tope, Rudd, Sealion, Seacow

Kernow Pike

Bachmann Bass, Limpet, Tippler

Edited January 18, 2019 by Foden

[Waverley47708]

Hi Paul, Did rakes of Turbots ever use a brake van, Ive looked through many photos but cannot find an answer as most pics only show individual wagons.

Took my turbots to the club on Thursday and ran them with a single nose first 20. Our own curmudgeonly Emeritus Guard Mitchell declared "Wrong! Should have a brake van". I thought he has declared it "wrong" on account of the type of wagons needing a brake van. Eventually we got to the bottom of his concern it was to do with the need to provide guard accommodation, as the guard wasn't allowed to travel in the cab of a single 20 apparently.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Waverley47708

[66738]

Took my turbots to the club on Thursday and ran them with a single nose first 20. Our own curmudgeonly Emeritus Guard Mitchell declared "Wrong! Should have a brake van". I thought he has declared it "wrong" on account of the type of wagons needing a brake van. Eventually we got to the bottom of his concern it was to do with the need to provide guard accommodation, as the guard was allowed to travel in the cab of a single 20 apparently.

Should it read “as the guard was NOT allowed to travel in the cab of a single 20 apparently”?

Would make sense as the 20 had the driver, probably 2nd man as well, so it would already be quite full in there.

66738

[Waverley47708]

Should it read “as the guard was NOT allowed to travel in the cab of a single 20 apparently”?

Would make sense as the 20 had the driver, probably 2nd man as well, so it would already be quite full in there.

66738

Yes you are correct, have edited my post to correct typo.

 

Mind you for those who know our own dear Emeritus Gaurd Mitchell, am sure the driver and second man would have been glad to have him located elsewhere in a brake van.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Waverley47708

[Rivercider]

Should it read “as the guard was NOT allowed to travel in the cab of a single 20 apparently”?

Would make sense as the 20 had the driver, probably 2nd man as well, so it would already be quite full in there.

66738

 

Yes good point about the provision of a brake van if the train was not permitted to run driver only.

That applied to a single class 20, also a class 08 for the same reason.

I believe (some or all) class 20s were modified so when working as a pair there was cab to cab communication between driver and guard (in the other loco)

then the brake van was not required.

 

cheers

 

cheers

[Fat Controller]

Yes good point about the provision of a brake van if the train was not permitted to run driver only.

That applied to a single class 20, also a class 08 for the same reason.

I believe (some or all) class 20s were modified so when working as a pair there was cab to cab communication between driver and guard (in the other loco)

then the brake van was not required.

 

cheers

 

cheers

I thought it was due to the absence of a certain brake valve. Never heard about cab-to-cab communication being a problem; after all, the only way of communicating on double-cab locos (at least on older stock) was to walk through the engine room.

[26power]

Might be worth bearing in mind that the Cambrian bogies are now one piece mouldings, with just the axleboxes to add, see C72 here:

http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/4mmbogies.html £3.75/pair and take 26mm long axles.

 

All a bit frustrating that the Dapol ones are too narrow for both EM gauge use and appearances sake, assuming that they are otherwise decent representations of the right bogie type.

 

Patiently waiting on the Bogie Bolster E myself.

[cravensdmufan]

Collected 3 Dutch ones from my local model shop this afternoon. Delighted with them - well done Dapol!

 

For an experiment I gave one a very quick once over with Tamiya powders together with a spot of drybrushing for the rust patches (Windsor & Newton "Burnt Umber" acrylic tube borrowed from my wife's art box!).

 

It's toned the yellow down well - will now devote more time to do the others. I'm looking to modelling them with loads. Quick question folks - would I be correct in assuming these wagons were used mainly for recovery of old ballast and sleepers etc?

[Fat Controller]

Collected 3 Dutch ones from my local model shop this afternoon. Delighted with them - well done Dapol!

 

For an experiment I gave one a very quick once over with Tamiya powders together with a spot of drybrushing for the rust patches (Windsor & Newton "Burnt Umber" acrylic tube borrowed from my wife's art box!).

 

It's toned the yellow down well - will now devote more time to do the others. I'm looking to modelling them with loads. Quick question folks - would I be correct in assuming these wagons were used mainly for recovery of old ballast and sleepers etc?

They were also used for bringing blanketing sand to site.

[Trog]

They were also used for bringing blanketing sand to site.

 

Ballast and gravel for drains was a use more common than sand, those Turbots knew their Plaice.

[The Pilotman]

Ballast and gravel for drains was a use more common than sand, those Turbots knew their Plaice.

You’re quite right; carrying sand wasn’t their sole purpose.

[Kylestrome]

You’re quite right; carrying sand wasn’t their sole purpose.

 

If fact, they could probably be viewed as general Porpoise wagons.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Kylestrome

[cravensdmufan]

More progress with weathering.  Gave the inside a coat of Games Workshops' Citadel Typhus Corrosion - magic stuff!

 

I fitted Dapol's coupling bars to the inner ends, but can't work out how to shorten the tension locks for the outer ends.  Ideas anyone please?  Edit: just seen SouthernMafia's post #179 - useful information, thanks

Edited January 24, 2019 by cravensdmufan

[Kylestrome]

 

Thanks to 26power’s suggestion of bogies from Stenson Models, a supplier that is completely new to me, I have made some progress towards getting P4 wheels under my Turbot.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the idea of simply changing the bogies was soon scotched when I came to unscrewing the Dapol ones. As one can see from the photos, they are quite chunky affairs and they are recessed to accommodate the cast pivot bosses on the underframe. In order to achieve the correct running height with the replacement bogies, I will have to do some work on those pivots. Shortening them will not be easy because the underframe is cast metal, presumably mazak for extra weight, and there are many added-on plastic details in the way.

 

Here are more details of building the replacement bogies and adapting this wagon for P4:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118922-kylestrome’s-4mm-workbench-–-p4-bogies-for-a-Dapol-turbot/page-2

Post #43

 

David

Edited March 18, 2019 by Kylestrome