The Old Road - a Hampshire byway

[SouthernRegionSteam]

 

Hello there!

Well it's been a long time coming but it is finally coming to fruition - a roundy-roundy shed layout based on the old Hampshire byways.

Recently TWMBO gave permission for a new shed to be constructed to house my railway needs - thus they settle on a 10ft x 8ft space where a current shed stands at the bottom of the garden. Typically I immediately saw railway potential for a branch line. And the location just had to be my local line (now long gone) with the nearest station around a mile away and beautifully preserved to this day. Now the scene is set I need a plan. The photo below shows the current plan I've been thinking about. Originally I had planned for it to be a double track roundy roundy but as the prototype was a single track I am leaning towards that instead.



I should point out that I have no idea whether the plan will fit in the space at all.
You will also note that I am thinking about having a small section of the layout going outside the longest side of the shed. It was either this or have a multi-level layout, and I know which I'd rather have!

The below photo shows a possible visualisation of the shed.



So this is my first proper big layout and I will need a lot of help and guidance along the way (hint hint!).

Vital stats:

Size: 10ft x 8ft
Gauge: OO gauge
Configuration: roundy roundy, perhaps with outside loop
Location: Southern Railway, Hampshire, 'the other S&DJR', The New Forest.

Now onto you!

Cheers,
Jam

[Guest oldlugger]

Looking forward to seeing this one come to fruition Jam! More SR layouts are what we need...

 

Cheers

Simon

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Thanks Simon!

I must agree - you can never have enough SR layouts can you.

Hopefully uni won't get in the way too much with this layout but I guess I will have to do it in sections - I'm not use to a layout so big as I've never had the space really.

 

It will also be a test of my modelling skills - I'm not great at ballasting and trackwork so that will be a major task to undertake.

Fingers crossed it will all go fairly smoothly...

[Guest jonte]

This all looks very professional, Jam.

 

Here's a layout that will do 'the Old Road' justice.

 

I shall be watching with great interest.

 

Good luck!

 

Jonte

[artizen]

Don't ever go down this track - it will take you five years to lay all the rails!

 

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1319.90

[SouthernRegionSteam]

This all looks very professional, Jam.

 

Here's a layout that will do 'the Old Road' justice.

 

I shall be watching with great interest.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Thank you Jonte, I appreciate the compliment! Hopefully I can live up to your expectations.

'The Old Road' is a line I always thought was undervalued and undermodelled, hopefully this will help to restore the balance!

 

Don't ever go down this track - it will take you five years to lay all the rails!

 

http://www.finescale...p?topic=1319.90

 

Good grief! It may look good, and I may be very patient, but I think that would be crossing the line (no pun intended!).

Oh if I had the skills though...

[ColinW]

Hi Jam,

 

Its good to see another Southern layout being proposed, will look forward to seeing this one develop, when time will allow you.

 

Colin

[Bill Jones]

Good to see another layout based on the Salisbury & Dorset, I'll be watching your progress with interest. As a carpenter, joiner & cabinet maker, let me know if you need help with baseboards etc. we're fairly local to each other.

[Tim Chambers]

Good to see another layout based on the Salisbury & Dorset, I'll be watching your progress with interest. As a carpenter, joiner & cabinet maker, let me know if you need help with baseboards etc. we're fairly local to each other.

What a kind offer- don't we have some nice people on RMWeb!

[edcayton]

Three things to check.

Looks like some tight radii here-I suspect you'll be down to setrack first radius.

Remember that a 10x8 shed wil be around 6 inches smaller in both length and width.

To get from the upper station to the lower it looks as though you can only get into a short bay platform, or is that an overall roof?

 

I like the idea of a tranquil SR branch line. What oeriod/motive power will you be using?

 

Ed

[McRuss]

I too think that the radii will be very tight, and the passing sidings will be very short.

Have you considered to built it in N scale?

 

Markus

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Hi Jam,

 

Its good to see another Southern layout being proposed, will look forward to seeing this one develop, when time will allow you.

 

Colin

 

Colin, thank you. It will inevitable be quite a long term project but I do hope to keep making progress throughout the year. I have already asked my dad if I can insulate the shed so there extremes of temperature won't be as big an issue and also so I can work throughout the winter months.

 

Good to see another layout based on the Salisbury & Dorset, I'll be watching your progress with interest. As a carpenter, joiner & cabinet maker, let me know if you need help with baseboards etc. we're fairly local to each other.

 

What a kind offer- don't we have some nice people on RMWeb!

 

As Tim says, that is an incredibly kind thing to offer, I am always astounded at the goodwill of members on RMweb. Thank you very much Bill for the offer. I couldn't tell you right now if I need your help, but if I do I will be sure to let you know in advance if you are available.

 

Three things to check.

Looks like some tight radii here-I suspect you'll be down to setrack first radius.

Remember that a 10x8 shed wil be around 6 inches smaller in both length and width.

To get from the upper station to the lower it looks as though you can only get into a short bay platform, or is that an overall roof?

I like the idea of a tranquil SR branch line. What period/motive power will you be using?

Ed

 

Ed, thank you for your comment.

Firstly, this is just a preliminary plan and as I mentioned, I don't really know what I can get away with in the space.

I'm hoping to use a minimum of 2nd radius track but I will need to work out if this is possible. I've drawn some of the curves (particularly the ones at the top of the plan) much tighter than they should be.

 

That is an overall roof, yes. Sorry, I was in a rush to draw a plan at the time so didn't have time to add in the details or label everything up. I should also point out at this stage that the stations will be loose representations of those on the line. The layout will be a mix of all the 'best' bits of the line (that I like) and so the footbridge and overall roof will be from Ringwood, and the 'upper' station will be based on Breamore with a few minor differences.

 

The period I am undecided about, but it is likely to be between 1940-1960. Motive power will hopefully include:

- Merchant Navy

- Q1

- M7

- T9

- BR Standard 2-6-2

and others....

 

I too think that the radii will be very tight, and the passing sidings will be very short.

Have you considered to built it in N scale?

 

Markus

 

Thank you Markus. Yes, I did consider N gauge but I still like the 'chunkiness' of OO and since I have mainly OO stock I have decided to go for OO rather than N.

[Guest Belgian]

Pedant mode: strictly speaking, the "Old Road" is the Lymington Junction to Hamworthy line, not the S&DJR, which joined the Old Road at West Moors. The Old Road was double throughout whilst the S&DJR was single.

 

Pedant off: you should talk to Tim Hale about the S&DJR, he's the man with the best knowledge and database about the line I know.

 

But, of course, the "It's my railway and I'll do what I like" rule trumps everything so best of luck : it certainly looks to be an operationally interesting project! (Much more interesting than either of the lines it's based on!)

 

JE

[Oldddudders]

The period I am undecided about, but it is likely to be between 1940-1960. Motive power will hopefully include:

- Merchant Navy

- Q1

- M7

- T9

- BR Standard 2-6-2

I hope not to be too much of a dampener, but can I suggest that the Bulleid light pacifics would be a much more likely loco than the MN? The MNs - there were but 30, of course - really did stick to mainline passenger routes, reflecting their 8P classification. The West Countries & Battle of Britains on the other hand were frequently used on secondary routes such as this. Their performances on the lines in Cornwall and North Devon are well-known, but they also ran on the Oxted group of lines, for example, with success. I hold no info on the actual route clearances of either class over this line, but while your other power looks eminently plausible, MN might be stretching things a bit!

[SouthernRegionSteam]

I hope not to be too much of a dampener, but can I suggest that the Bulleid light pacifics would be a much more likely loco than the MN? The MNs - there were but 30, of course - really did stick to mainline passenger routes, reflecting their 8P classification. The West Countries & Battle of Britains on the other hand were frequently used on secondary routes such as this. Their performances on the lines in Cornwall and North Devon are well-known, but they also ran on the Oxted group of lines, for example, with success. I hold no info on the actual route clearances of either class over this line, but while your other power looks eminently plausible, MN might be stretching things a bit!

 

Yes, I can see what you mean. I was trying to work out whether I had in fact seen a photo of a MN on the line and having just re-read the Middleton Press book on the line there was one photo of a diverted train (Waterloo to B'mouth) hauled by a MN. The main reason why I wanted to run a MN on the layout is because I like them and the one I have (Port Line) hasn't seen much use. Admittedly that diverted express is quoted as being 'an unusually long train for this route', but it goes to show almost anything goes!

 

Pedant mode: strictly speaking, the "Old Road" is the Lymington Junction to Hamworthy line, not the S&DJR, which joined the Old Road at West Moors. The Old Road was double throughout whilst the S&DJR was single.

 

Pedant off: you should talk to Tim Hale about the S&DJR, he's the man with the best knowledge and database about the line I know.

 

But, of course, the "It's my railway and I'll do what I like" rule trumps everything so best of luck : it certainly looks to be an operationally interesting project! (Much more interesting than either of the lines it's based on!)

 

Ah, my mistake! I had heard quite a few references to the Old Road and mistakenly thought it was the S&DJR. I think it wise I come up with a new name! If anyone comes up with a name let me know...

Thanks for the heads up RE Tim, i'll send him a message later.

 

Thanks!

[spamcan61]

 

Yes, I can see what you mean. I was trying to work out whether I had in fact seen a photo of a MN on the line and having just re-read the Middleton Press book on the line there was one photo of a diverted train (Waterloo to B'mouth) hauled by a MN. The main reason why I wanted to run a MN on the layout is because I like them and the one I have (Port Line) hasn't seen much use. Admittedly that diverted express is quoted as being 'an unusually long train for this route', but it goes to show almost anything goes!

 

 

The Old Road was used for a fair amount of express passenger traffic I believe, on summer Saturdays to relieve congestion on the Sway route, and during the civil works leading up to the '67 electrification.

[wagonman]

Thank you Markus. Yes, I did consider N gauge but I still like the 'chunkiness' of OO and since I have mainly OO stock I have decided to go for OO rather than N.

 

 

Looking at the plan I did immediately assume it was N gauge. You've got curves down to 15" radius or less which would look silly with 00 stock particularly anything as big as a Merchant Navy. Of course, if you were just running B4 dock tanks you could probably get away with it.

 

 

Rule 1 for realistic layouts is use the largest radius you can. Have another go at a roundy-roundy. Please!

[edcayton]

I don't disagree with any of the above, but I stayed with 00, and I wanted main line trains. My "layout"(it's no more than a double track test oval) is about to rebuilt into a room about 8 ft square with an extension for a "fiddle station". I have been content with a four-coach "express" and am hoping to go up to five in the new room.

 

Have a look at the "Mill Lane" thread on here recently to see what a six? coach train looks like on a small layout. The builder said it is 4ft x 4ft6". I'm sure that is incorrect, but none the less it gives you an idea.

 

I think you should be able to make a lovely railway in your shed-especially if you put a loop outside-but you may struggle to get two stations and some nice "trains in the countryside" scenery. Have a look at as many plans books as you can, especially by Paul Lunn and the late Cyril Freezer. If you look at plans for smaller layouts and expand them for your space you'll get some good ideas.

 

Ed

 

Remember-It's your train set!!

[NWJ]

Is there any reason why you did not decide to just put the "roundy-roundy" around the inside perimeter of the shed? This might eliminate the 15inch radius curves. Of course, you would need to include a duck-under or removable section by the entrance, but looking at your visualisation of the shed, this seems as if it might be possible.

Looking through some of the layout plans I have at home (yet another collection by Cyril Freezer) there is one called "Umberleigh" (PSL Book of Model Railway Trackplans) which, while it would need a little adapting to suit your particular needs, might be a start. This is designed for an 8'x6' space, so you have more to work with, and it included 24" (approx) minimum radius curves. One of the other advantages of working from inside the circle is that the sharpness of the curve is less apparent. I think that in your original idea the end curves may annoy you in time because you are viewing them from the outside and can consequently see how sharp they really are.

Good luck with the developmental phase though - I am watching with interest.

Neil

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Thanks for all your comments, I am absolutely thrilled that this layout is getting so much attention!

 

My mistake, the Merchant Navy was at Ringwood, so I guess that would still be the Old Road rather than the S&DJR. However, I think the layout will end up being a mix of the two anyway.

 

Richard, I've attached an image of the space available (albeit inside the house) just to show what radius curves we would be talking about. I agree though that larger radii would be a lot better...

 

Peter, if I do get round to seeing the book you mention I will be sure to look at the plan you mention. I'm sure it can be done, I'm probably just going about it the wrong way!

 

Ed, yes, I saw the Mill Lane thread and it does show just how a long train would look like, however, it will be very rare for me to run a train any longer than 3 or maybe 4 carriages at most.

 

Neil, although there wasn't really a specific reason for not having a duck under section, I did feel I wanted to negate the need for this as far as possible. Not many people know this but I do have an N gauge layout in my current shed. It does have a removable section. The fact that I have only used it once in its 3 year existence does concern me whether having a removable section is the way forward. I understand what you say about the sharpness not being as apparent from inside the curves but I guess only time will tell whether I will get annoyed about having outside curves on show.

 

So here is the original plan (roughly) laid out using 2nd and 3rd radius curves in the 10ft x 8ft space.

 

[edcayton]

Have you thought about how high to have the layout? My old one was 4'6" from the floor and I think the new one will go to 5ft. This will mean standing on a "hop-up" to work on it, but will give me eye-level viewing from standing or my high stool. This helps to mask the sharp curves and the narrow 00 track.

 

Ed

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Have you thought about how high to have the layout? My old one was 4'6" from the floor and I think the new one will go to 5ft. This will mean standing on a "hop-up" to work on it, but will give me eye-level viewing from standing or my high stool. This helps to mask the sharp curves and the narrow 00 track.

 

Ed

 

No, not really if I'm honest. I was thinking about having it so I could sit on a stool and watch the trains go by. I think that anything too high will make it unnecessarily difficult to work on? And I don't think standing up for long periods of time would do any good either.

[Guest Belgian]

That is certainly the best way to visualise your plan - if you are happy with the curves here you will know how practical your layout is. I would merely suggest that you might place your second station on the back part of the layout so to give your trains a longer distance to travel between stops.

 

JE

 

Thanks for all your comments, I am absolutely thrilled that this layout is getting so much attention!

 

My mistake, the Merchant Navy was at Ringwood, so I guess that would still be the Old Road rather than the S&DJR. However, I think the layout will end up being a mix of the two anyway.

 

Richard, I've attached an image of the space available (albeit inside the house) just to show what radius curves we would be talking about. I agree though that larger radii would be a lot better...

 

Peter, if I do get round to seeing the book you mention I will be sure to look at the plan you mention. I'm sure it can be done, I'm probably just going about it the wrong way!

 

Ed, yes, I saw the Mill Lane thread and it does show just how a long train would look like, however, it will be very rare for me to run a train any longer than 3 or maybe 4 carriages at most.

 

Neil, although there wasn't really a specific reason for not having a duck under section, I did feel I wanted to negate the need for this as far as possible. Not many people know this but I do have an N gauge layout in my current shed. It does have a removable section. The fact that I have only used it once in its 3 year existence does concern me whether having a removable section is the way forward. I understand what you say about the sharpness not being as apparent from inside the curves but I guess only time will tell whether I will get annoyed about having outside curves on show.

 

So here is the original plan (roughly) laid out using 2nd and 3rd radius curves in the 10ft x 8ft space.

 

[Guest Belgian]

 

The Old Road was used for a fair amount of express passenger traffic I believe, on summer Saturdays to relieve congestion on the Sway route, and during the civil works leading up to the '67 electrification.

 

Back to my pedant mode: the "Old Road" (and the S&DJR, the one we're talking about on this thread) closed to passenger traffic on 4th May 1964 so it was never used for diversions during the Bournemouth Electrification works. (Pedant off) But, of course, in a parallel universe it might well have survived intact!

 

As a matter of interest, there has recently been an apparently serious suggestion that part of the Old Road might be re-instated to serve Ringwood and the modern dormitory areas along its old route!

 

JE

[spamcan61]

 

Back to my pedant mode: the "Old Road" (and the S&DJR, the one we're talking about on this thread) closed to passenger traffic on 4th May 1964 so it was never used for diversions during the Bournemouth Electrification works. (Pedant off) But, of course, in a parallel universe it might well have survived intact!

 

As a matter of interest, there has recently been an apparently serious suggestion that part of the Old Road might be re-instated to serve Ringwood and the modern dormitory areas along its old route!

 

JE

 

I could've sworn I'd read about the electrification diversions in more than one book, but, as you say, the timescales don't add up!