Steadfast Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) I've decided to have a play with a thread rather than a blog for a bit. I always liked the old work bench threads, let's see if this gives me the kick up the backside to keep projects moving forward Previous work was on the blog here: http://www.rmweb.co....60-ewsjos-blog/ Anyway, last week I had an idea. Whether it's a good idea or not, I don't know... Recent deliveries of stone hoppers have more than a passing resemblance to the current designs of coal hoppers. I have a few hoppers that I picked up cheaply, so didn't mind hacking them about. I've got a nice set of RMC hoppers, which I felt could do with a bit of variety. All this sounded rather worryingly like a plan... Right, so first up here's a piccy from Flickr with the kind of mix I'm looking to achieve. http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ A set of RMCs, with a couple of EWS wagons thrown in, plus a lovely KPA. Towards the back are a Cemex blue and grey IIA as well as a Cemex and an EWS HOA. Add in the fact this train can occaisionally produce a 60 and we're onto a winner! I'm going to start with an IIA hopper, this looking more involved than the HOAs. These wagons were ordered by EWS for their contract with Cemex, orginally operating off Peak Forest with the HOAs, displacing the RMC JGA hoppers, but as shown on the link above have migrated elsewhere, too. A batch of identical wagons went to Nacco and VTG for lease to Mendip Rail, which due to living where I do, I have many more pictures of, so will be using these to illustrate at times. The wagons were built by Wagony Swidnica, part of Greenbrier, in Poland, the same people who did Freightliner's HHA coal hoppers. Looking at the side and end profiles, there's clearly a family resemblance, and that's where the idea begain. Here's a quick bit of Photoshop work to highlight the work involved, with a Mendip Rail liveried IIA to compare with. Modelling those "breadloaf" buffers could be interesting... So, from the top down: Everything above the red line is cut away, this will be replaced with a 6mm wide piece of plasticard as the IIA has this as a single plane, as opposed to the two on the HHA 5.5mm up on the flat bodyside needs to be a horizontal groove. I have made this 1mm deep, with the remainder of the original bodyside above this at just under 1.5mm. On the prototype it is at a 45 degree angle, but on the model I have simply represented it by putting some flat plasticard behind the gap Top shows the unmodified side, bottom has the top angle cut off and the groove added. Looking back it may have been easier to file this groove in... The dimensions show the IIA is much shorter than the HHA, most of this is lost by loosing one hopper bay, but additonally each bay needs shortening by 3mm. Here's current state of play, showing the inner moulding having lost a hopper bay, but still needing each remaining bay shortening This final image shows the difference in length between an HHA and a JGA stone hopper. The IIA should be slightly longer than the JGA if I'm remembering rightly I'm keeping my eyes open for some cheap IIA/HYA (Fastline/GBRf) coal hoppers to do some HOAs once this one is done More soon! jo Edited April 30, 2020 by Steadfast 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted August 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi Jo, Interesting project - I look forward to following your progress. Perhaps this could be something to show at Leamington? Incidentally, in the inspirational train you link to, I notice that there is a single Tiphook KPA in the consist in blue livery - the NGS kit includes these decals. Actually, I think I saw a very similar train on the North London line at Gospel Oak a few weeks ago with a Class 67 at the head! Cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Cheers Ben, It's progressing surprisingly qucikly, if it continues at this pace then it could well be in primer by Leamington. It'll be with me for sure, whatever state it's in. Yes, the Tiphook KPA was crying out to be included, think I'll have to swing by the NGS stand for a purchase. Nice weathering on them too! There's a few trains around London that use these wagons, some Mendip based (Whatley - St Pancras or Hayes generally) and some Acton ones too. jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hi Jo, Just found this thread... interesting idea (and achievable in 4mm too using the Bachmann HHA). Any more progress this month? Guy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Hi Guy, Here's the current state of play. Chassis and one side shortened. It needs the top angle adding, then I'll start on the 2nd side. I think I'll do the cut out in the bodyside after I shorten side 2, less fiddly when it comes to filling! The edges of the recess look a bit wobbly, but I think its mainly the lighting catching it and exagerating build up of filler, plastic dust etc. Nothing a file can't sort, anyway! I need to buy some plastic strip to tidy up the solebar too Comparison with the HHA. They are both tight up to the right hand end, so the left end of the wagons shows the length variation. The other parts don't line up due to the camera angle This angle shows the shorted hopper bays. The bays weren't too bad, but the doors were a nightmare! Everything between the outer bay and the headstock is unaltered I only plan on doing a single IIA, as the bodyside rebate is a nightmare! I picked up a pair of cheap GBRf IIAs at Leamington, so the EWS wagons be next once this one is done, along with a Tiphook KPA kit also picked up there jo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 Hi all, Update time! This is one of those projects that's been put off and put off due to realising how much was involved in rebuilding the sides. However, the trip to Peak Forest on the way to Showcase really got me into wagons again, and I remembered this project, so off the shelf it came. Looking at what I've already done, I decided it was easier (and stronger) to shorten the wagon, and then add the rebate. Also, I wasn't overly happy with my work on the rebate, so off it came. Instead of using the orginal wagon body to create the piece above the rebate, I used some 1mm x 1mm strip. The strengtheners in the rebate are a 2mm length of the same 1mm x 1mm strip. The solebar is clad in 0.25mm x 1.5mm strip. The second side is ready to have the rebate and top strip added tomorrow once the glue's dry. The clamshell doors have been shortened and glued onto the shortened hopper bays. This is a job I'm glad is done! Here's the shortened chassis and body reunited. Once both sides are to this stage, I'll move onto the ends and adding the top angle. I think it may need to be glued as a single piece once I get to this stage for strength. The comparison shows roughly how much height is missing at the moment, and how much longer these wagons are than the older RMCs Finally a couple of shots from Peak Forest More soon, hopefully tomorrow after work jo 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Interesting project Jo. I reckon you could get the angle in the recess fairly easily using Milliput white and a shaping pice - in fact a the end of a square section of Evergreen would probably do it. Basically just fill the entire recess with the Milliput, then, making sure both the plastic and the surface of the Milliput are well lubricated with saliva (OK - yuk, but who's going to know?) carefully drag the styrene along. It should ride along the edges of the recess squeezing out the excess filler as it goes along and form the angled shape in it. The same priciples work for curved shapes too, just use a round former. It's easy enough to practice the technique before trying it on the wagon too - just glue down two strips of a backing piece of plastic, fill with filler, then wet and drag. It will probably take a couple of drags, usign a sharp blade to lift off the bulk of the excess from the first run. The smaller amount on the second run can probably be left to harden to be smoothed off after. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Thanks for the tip Bernard, I'll be looking to get some new Milliput soon then! The current pack is rather dry and solid! I've got a few other projects where wetting and shaping sounds like it could be the answer, too. Here's a few pics of the wagon as it stands now. It certainly looks a lot better to my eyes now it's full height. The triangular fillet used to fill the angle between the vertical and angle side panels is planned to be rubbed down. However, I might see how it looks with a coat of primer, as there's a weld line at this height so it may stay. We'll see... jo 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 That looks great! It's amazing how similar the wagons are in cross-section, up to about 2/3s of the height! Not sure whether that trip we made to Peak Forest was a good idea, no doubt your wallet is cringing! Cheers, Jack 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Cheers, they seem to be a cross between the HHA coal hopper and the HIA stone hoppers that Freightliner use in terms of design. Looking at wagon ''families'' it seems common for coal and stone hoppers to have the same profile to 2/3rds, with the top panel being 1 piece for stone, or two pieces/angles for coal As for project Peak...yeah you could say that! Luckily at the moment its mostly in my head, and I think I've got enough 60s already... jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well today I got some Milliput - it seems to have worked ok despite my inability to do anything straight or level by hand I'll pop a picture up in the morning, the thruth will be told once its primed! Thanks Bernard! jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Looking really good Jo! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 No problem, Jo. Effectively the 'tool' is guided by the edges of the slot so if they're straight, the 'drag' will be too. I found the same method (but different, round shape) worked for the concave edges of my 4mm Capri II dashboard as well 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks Martyn, you're site's had a few extra hits the last few days.... It's certainly flexible technique Bernard, one I'd never thought of but one to bear in mind for future stuff A few photos showing some progress today. I managed a coat of primer, and unusually for me it looks pretty good already! There's a lot less filling and filing to do than I imagined there'd be so that was a good start. I mentioned yesterday that there was an area between the recess and the angled top panel that wasn't flush. I've now clad the top panel with a 10 thou layer, which has brought this panel flush with the triangular fillet filling the gap between it and the vertical side, if that makes sense. This leaves a slight lip under the triangular fillet, which looks like the weld along the wagon. The white top panel is this extra layer of plastic. The ends have a piece of metal that isn't on the HHAs. On the real thing it's sheet metal, but I've used 1mm x 1mm strip for ease of modelling it. Lazy I know, but should look ok once painted. The photo also shows how I've got away using thick plastic strip for the top angle, the fold down (painted yellow) in the metal makes it appear thicker than it is. If I haven't lost everyone with that description, here's the pictures of it Filler has been applied to tidy up some rough joints, more primer and photos once its rubbed down jo 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted June 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hi Jo Looking very good indeed! Great work! Thanks for keeping us posted. cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Thanks Ben, progress haas crawled to a halt after the weekend. The underframe piece is now DB Schenker grey, looking like the nearest match in my collection. The bodywork got a coat of Tamiya acrylic grey. Two problems arose. Number 1, it was the wrong shade, far too stoney in colour. Nice and simple to recoat it though, and it has blended everything together into a uniform layer. Problem number 2...the previous paint I'd used was acrylic, too. And here comes my bugbear with the stuff. Despite the airbrush looking clean, having thoroughly stripped and cleaned it after the last painting session, there was dried paint inside it somewhere. It came spitting out and made the model look all dusty, with lumps in the finish. At least with enamel the thinners dissolve the dried on paint. I *think* I've cleaned the airbrush fully this time. Who knows until I get the chance to paint the IIA again...combine that with some varnish drying misty on a Tamiya Humvee I'm building, and Sunday really wasn't the day to paint in Chippenham... The IIA is rubbed down ready for a better coat of grey, hopefully this weekend jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Don't know how I missed this thread since September? Anyway, great progress Jo! I'm glad to see you back into wagons... and aggregate ones too (the best kind!). I hope your airbrush troubles get sorted soon. Guy P.S. Here's a picture of a Peak Forest to aim for! And don't forget the JMAs in the foreground! ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hi Guy, Today i've brush painted a different grey in the areas that airbrush misses. I'm happier with the colour (Tamiya sky grey) so this'll get airbrushed all over soon. As for wagons, well, I'm not so sure about JMAs. Even talking nicely to Jack, the bogies could be tough in N. However I've wanted to do the HKAs ever since I saw them at Westbury. They didn't last long on the Mendip flows, but moving my modelling scope north gives a good excuse to do them I won't say much more until the package arrives, but here's a taste of what's to come. I saw plenty of these at Peak Forest, and ATM do the bogies.... jo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted June 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hi Jo Nice progress. CJM had a run of Farish freightliners done as National Power liveried JMAs - now the bogies have been swapped out on the prototype Chris's ones are more prototypical than when he commissioned them! If you are going for the large box wagon I think that batch of JNAs are a great choice. I have been banging on to Chivers and Bernard Taylor that these, or the ex Railtrack VTG ones, would make excellent and fairly simple subjects! cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hi Ben, It's funny how the prototype follows the model sometimes! I've got 5 HHAs left, having chopped one to make the IIA, all picked up cheap so I'm happy to repaint, fit buckeyes etc. This little half rake should look good with some RMC JGAs or HOA/IIAs to bulk it up. As for the boxes - yes they're really widespread, and there's so many variations that can be found in a single rake. I've seen scrap boxes in use on both Peak District and Mendip stone and VTG aggregate boxes on scrap to Cardiff, so pretty much anything goes! jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 So today I managed another coat of grey on the IIA...good news is the colour's better, in fact the colour I'm very happy with. The bad news...its got the texture of concrete rendering on an N scale 1950s suburan semi... I don't understand. I'm using the same methods as I have in the past, and have never had this problem before. The amount of time I spent cleaning the airbrush after last weekend's problems, there shouldn't be any bits left inside to pepper the surface of the wagon. So it's going to be rub down and try again. Not sure what to do about trying again though. I'm sure I'm not meant to need celulose thinners to clean up acrylic, but its the only thing I've got that seems to cut through the stuff. Maybe I should just go back to enamels. Though if there's gunk stuck inside the airbrush, that'll come out in that too. Hmmmmmm jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I've had the same problem with acrylics in hot weather. I think the paint dries whilst in the air between the brush and the model forming a nice pebbledash finish. You could try either thinning it more than you normally do or using retarder. I use Liquitex slow dry fluid retarder bought from an art shop. Or wait for colder weather to paint? HTH? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Guy - thank you so much! The thought of it drying due to the heat didn't even occur to me! I was just thinking Tamiya products are used all over the world so must be ok in the heat. To be honest there's no rush on it, so I can afford to wait a bit. It also reassures my faith in Tamiya paint, handy since I have a Humvee on the go, and a lot of Tamiya desert sand... Thanks again! jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It also reassures my faith in Tamiya paint, handy since I have a Humvee on the go, and a lot of Tamiya desert sand... Tamiya acrylic paint is ace! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Tamiya acrylic paint is ace! Yes, it is, it's just a shame it's not available in a few more shades. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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