Bachmann Class 37

[Notanotherhobby]

Hi All. I've finally plucked up the courage, raided the piggy bank, and somewhat warily, handed over my hard-earned for my first sound-equipped loco, the Bachmann Class 37 37049 in BR blue.

 

After ensuring the loco was responding to DCC command okay, and then being initially baffled by the lack of sound I re-read the instructions for the umpteenth time and realised that the sounds had to be "turned-on" using F1 ..doh!! Why don't they call it "start-up" or something similar? Anyway, as expected, the sound gives a whole new dimension to running a loco.

However, I do have a few concerns.

 

I am running the locos using an NCE Power Cab (and even after typing-out a quick-reference sheet showing, in nice big writing, the relevant keystrokes needed to activate the various sounds to ensure I am pressing the correct button), several of these buttons only seem to work when they feel like it, for example the buffer sounds, or the coupling noise. I can press these and nothing will happen, then sometimes when I press the sound may be activated, weird. This also happens with the two-tone horn.

 

The notch up and notch down buttons seem to have a mind of their own, and also have an impact on the way the loco starts off. When I turn-on the sounds initially the loco will release the brakes, power up and pull away up to the desired speed, but after touching either of the "notch" buttons the loco will always pull away without brake release and without any noticeable power-up and with the engine apparently just on tickover. Notching up or down are also delayed somewhat after the button press.

Using F1 to turn-off the sound sometimes results in sound cutting off immediately, but rarely does it actually "power-down" as expected.

 

Are these typical of Bachmann sound locos, or am I doing something very wrong?

[pauliebanger]

Hi.

 

I can't comment about the Bachmann sound file as it uses an ESU decoder. I use Zimo myself, and they operate differently.

 

I think your problems may actually be down to the way you are using your PowerCab.

 

All of the keys on a PowerCab are 'latched' (except for the Horn button which is set as 'momentary'). This means to switch on a sound, you must press the relevant key once, then to switch it off, you must press the same key again. This applies even if a sound has finished playing of its own accord. It's still switched 'on' but is silent!!

 

If you press a key that is in this state (on, but silent) all you will do is switch the sound 'off'. It doesn't help that only some of the F keys don't appear in the PowerCab's display.

 

If using numbers above 9, you will need to 'Shift' and add the last digit ie shift plus 5 to operate F15. Of course you will need to do this again to turn the sound off.

 

It's one of the drawbacks of the PowerCab, but it's easy to work around when you get used to it. (for sound I mean).

 

The notching thing is a feature of the sound project, someone else will have to give guidance on that.

 

F1 start and stop.

 

The loco must be at standstill for F1 start and stop sequences to play correctly. If it is moving, the F1 key acts like a simple on/off switch for sound. Can be useful going into tunnels, out of sight or into a fiddle yard etc when you don't want the full start or stop sequences everytime.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

One of the idiosyncrasies of the ESU chip is that it needs to play each sound or sequence of sounds in the strict order dictated by the project programming. Manual notching takes a second or two to kick in. When it does it will go through each notch up in sequence until you press the same function button to switch it off and then operate the throttle slowly to simulate the heavy thrash needed to get a heavy train under way. The trouble starts if you then start confusing the decoder by using throttle commands before the loco has reached the speed step that corresponds to the notch that has been set.

 

Modern thinking is that the project be written with thrash in the acceleration sound schedule that is selected by throttle opening but this requires a great deal of awareness on the driver's part as to which speed step on the throttle gives the desired result.

 

Also the lack of certain functions at some times is perhaps due to the decoder only having 4 channel sound or a possible lack of power to the loco caused by mechanical problems like dirty track or poor pick up. It is also possible that the button push to play a sound is actually switching it off. You must be aware that unless you are using Dynamis or ECoS pre-programmed to non latching functions, that your buttons require two pushes, one to switch it on ( sound plays once ) and once to switch it off ( dead silence until you push it again ). This is one of those moments when you need a controller screen that tells you which functions are on/in use. The decoder stores all your function commands and every time you power up, those functions will be as you last left them. Sometimes they will play when you switch on which is a sure sign that you have left them on from the last session.

 

You have already invested in Loksound but I think that Pauliebanger's Multi Drive Zimo might have suited you better, particularly if you don't mind button pushing to get the engine note you want rather than what the decoder gives you.

 

Then again, if this is a V3.5 project in a V4 decoder that might be causing the problem.

[making tracks]

If it helps at all I beleive the loksond V4 can only be notched up or down when the loco is actually moving

[SRman]

The notching on Bachmann's sound locos tends to have a very large lag. This certainly applies to the 37s and 24s.

 

Power Cabs show functions up to 6 on the screen. To show higher functions press the Expn button. Make sure you press it again to get control back, though!

 

I have reprogrammed my option key to allow easier access to higher functions up to 28. The NCE manual details how to do this.

[cassey jones]

Using the notching on Bachmann's loco's I have found that it is not instant on, instant off, they tend to be spooled sounds, so it you press f5 twice you need to press f6 once, then once again to bring the engine revs die down [you have no control over this] - otherwise you will just have the loco reving away.

Its the same problem with all those other Loksound notching chips from other suppliers.

 

The simple answer is ditch the Loksound and go for a Digitrains multi drive class 37, you won't believe how good this is when comparing it to your Loksound 37.

Once you get use to driving it, you'll wonder why you ever bought the Bachmann 37.

If you want more control of your loco sounds then Digitrains multi drives are the way forward.

[gridwatcher]

Using the notching on Bachmann's loco's I have found that it is not instant on, instant off, they tend to be spooled sounds, so it you press f5 twice you need to press f6 once, then once again to bring the engine revs die down [you have no control over this] - otherwise you will just have the loco reving away.

Its the same problem with all those other Loksound notching chips from other suppliers.

 

The simple answer is ditch the Loksound and go for a Digitrains multi drive class 37, you won't believe how good this is when comparing it to your Loksound 37.

Once you get use to driving it, you'll wonder why you ever bought the Bachmann 37.

If you want more control of your loco sounds then Digitrains multi drives are the way forward.

Have to disagree. The main issue is the Bachmann sound files and the way they set them up. I would remove body, remove decoder only. Post to Howes and ask for a class 37/0 reblow About £12 and post. You won't believe how much better it is.

[Notanotherhobby]

As expected, some excellent replies there, Thanks. I was dubious about getting a sound equipped loco, but was more concerned about ruining one of my existing fleet during a sound install. Looks like I made the wrong choice. We live and learn. Looks like a Howes re-blow of the decoder might be on the cards then. Once again thanks for the advice folks.

[dasatcopthorne]

I must agree with all that has been said about how the standard Bachmann sounds work on the 37. I shall be trying for as reblow soon.

 

However, I find the the Zimo sounds for the 60 are much the same. Not very contollable.

 

I've asked on here and I've email Digitrains but they haven't replied.

 

I've downloaded the latest manual for the MX645R chip but it doesn't help much with the Digitains sound as no one can tell me what CVs control the different sounds.

 

Cassey J manged to put me onto the CV that controls brake squeal but I would like to shorten the time Flange squeal plays and engine runs on after shutdown but have drawn a blank on what CVs control these.

 

Dave

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Cassey J manged to put me onto the CV that controls brake squeal but I would like to shorten the time Flange squeal plays and engine runs on after shutdown but have drawn a blank on what CVs control these.

 

Dave

 

You cannot adjust the length of the sound that plays in the decoder particularly on automatic play. If the flange squeal is too long on a function button, try a switch on -switch off as it starts to play the sound. If it is still too long then that is how it is and you cannot change it without a re-blow.

[pauliebanger]

I must agree with all that has been said about how the standard Bachmann sounds work on the 37. I shall be trying for as reblow soon.

 

However, I find the the Zimo sounds for the 60 are much the same. Not very contollable.

 

I've asked on here and I've email Digitrains but they haven't replied.

 

I've downloaded the latest manual for the MX645R chip but it doesn't help much with the Digitains sound as no one can tell me what CVs control the different sounds.

 

Cassey J manged to put me onto the CV that controls brake squeal but I would like to shorten the time Flange squeal plays and engine runs on after shutdown but have drawn a blank on what CVs control these.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

Digitrains website does suggest that a quick phone call wil get a better response than an email.

 

The Zimo Class 60 is not one of my creations. However, with Zimo, there are no CVs to shorten any sounds, unless the project author has put markers in the sound file to allow long/short/looped play. If this were the case, you would not need CVs anyway, just the way you key the sounds, as David has said.

 

I try to add these markers in my Zimo projects when feasible as it can enhance variabilty and retain interest for end users.

 

I am sorry to say, but the only way to get the control you want is to get the decoder reblown with the project amended as you require. It's not difficult to do if you know what's what, but it requires access to ZSP and the programming interface. I suggest a phone call to Digitrains I know they don't routinely monitor this forum.

 

If you draw a blank with Digitrains, I can make the changes, plus any others you need, and reblow your decoder for you, if that woud help. PM me if you wish.

 

You do not need to know which CVs control which sound. Follow the procedure in the manual, and you will hear each sound in turn. You can then make your selection and adjust the volume of each individual sound using your DCC controller. You can, in fact, assign any sound which is already in the decoder's memory to any F key,

 

This is more convenient during programming, but is perfectly possible for you to achieve. (you cannot shorten long sound clips this way, unfortunately).

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[dasatcopthorne]

Thanks Paul for clarifying those points. I have a beeter understanding now of what goes on.

 

The main problem I have is that after the initial pulling away and the PM dying back to coast, I'm only on SS 3 and the loco is hardly moving. Nothing I've adjusted seems to have any effect, or if it does, the loco is un-driveable.

 

Also for a loco starting a train away, the PM still revs back to tick over for a short delay before revving up to the next step. Surely this cannot be right for a prototype loco (Cl 60).

 

Dave

[johnd]

Paul or anybody else wonder if you can help me.

 

Don't know if you can remember Paul but i was talking to you about fitting a Zimo class 37 in the latest Bachmann 37 at the the L&YDcc show as you were demostrating with the Hornby mag variety that you had just fitted.

 

Any way after talking to you I went straight over to the Digitrains stand and purchased the decoder and speaker. Information I was given was just wire the speaker to the S+ and S- on the circuit board. Now this were my problem starts. Whilst I have no problem fitting the speaker and the decoder I just cannot see any connections marked S+ and S- on the circuit board.

 

The Loco is the latest green version of the 37 as released.

 

Guidence please.

[pauliebanger]

Paul or anybody else wonder if you can help me.

 

Don't know if you can remember Paul but i was talking to you about fitting a Zimo class 37 in the latest Bachmann 37 at the the L&YDcc show as you were demostrating with the Hornby mag variety that you had just fitted.

 

Any way after talking to you I went straight over to the Digitrains stand and purchased the decoder and speaker. Information I was given was just wire the speaker to the S+ and S- on the circuit board. Now this were my problem starts. Whilst I have no problem fitting the speaker and the decoder I just cannot see any connections marked S+ and S- on the circuit board.

 

The Loco is the latest green version of the 37 as released.

 

Guidence please.

 

How frustrating. I am sorry you are having this problem, I am sure Digitrains gave the advice based on their knowledge of other Bachmann Class 37 models. Unfortunately, I do not own any Bachmann 37s, nor have I any experience with them. My 37s are all ViTrains.

 

I will obtain the info you need as soon as possible and post here if you do not get advice from Bachmann experts in the meantime.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[johnd]

 

How frustrating. I am sorry you are having this problem, I am sure Digitrains gave the advice based on their knowledge of other Bachmann Class 37 models. Unfortunately, I do not own any Bachmann 37s, nor have I any experience with them. My 37s are all ViTrains.

 

I will obtain the info you need as soon as possible and post here if you do not get advice from Bachmann experts in the meantime.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

Paul have sent you a PM with a pic of the circuit board attached, see if you can work it out.

 

regards

 

John

[pauliebanger]

 

Paul have sent you a PM with a pic of the circuit board attached, see if you can work it out.

 

regards

 

John

 

John,

 

Between the copper coiled resistors and the board retaining screw on the left of the picture there are four holes (for soldering into). The outside pair are marked SPK, though they do not indicate +ve or -ve. The polarity will not matter if using only one speaker, but if using more than one, ensure they are in phase by connecting the the same side to the positive (or red dotted) side of each speaker.

 

It looks like these holes are intended for the attachment of a miniature socket, maybe for the sound fitted versions. This is just a presumption at the moment, I'll post again when I have this confirmed.

 

I'm surprised that the manufacturer (Bachmann) have not included the info you need with the model. (No, I'm not. Ha Ha)

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

 

John,

 

Between the copper coiled resistors and the board retaining screw on the left of the picture there are four holes (for soldering into). The outside pair are marked SPK, though they do not indicate +ve or -ve. The polarity will not matter if using only one speaker, but if using more than one, ensure they are in phase by connecting the the same side to the positive (or red dotted) side of each speaker.

 

 

Paul

 

John,

 

Yes, I've confirmed that the outside pair are the speaker connections and will required soldering.

 

Please forgive me if the following is obvious to you, but I don't know your experience so I'll mention a potential danger I have spotted from the photo.

 

I notice that the correct pair (outer) are very close to the inside pair. I do not know what is connected by them, but please ensure that any work that you do does not bridge the gap between any of them since this may damage the decoder or the circuit board or both. Inspect the installation for any excess solder which might be touching more than one connection point, and for any 'stray' wire filaments which may touch before powering up the loco.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[johnd]

 

John,

 

Yes, I've confirmed that the outside pair are the speaker connections and will required soldering.

 

Please forgive me if the following is obvious to you, but I don't know your experience so I'll mention a potential danger I have spotted from the photo.

 

I notice that the correct pair (outer) are very close to the inside pair. I do not know what is connected by them, but please ensure that any work that you do does not bridge the gap between any of them since this may damage the decoder or the circuit board or both. Inspect the installation for any excess solder which might be touching more than one connection point, and for any 'stray' wire filaments which may touch before powering up the loco.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

Thanks paul for your time and effort in sorting the problem for me.

 

I have a small pointed bit for one of my soldering irons and small very fine solder used for circuit boards so should not be to much of a problem. Think I shall solder the wire to the board first, test the chassis, then attach the speaker and test again before fitting any decoder, Might even use a non sound decoder before fitting the Zimo to check things.

 

Thx once again.