Hornby's Future Is Cheap Toys ...

[Guest dilbert]

However would it be breaking any embargoes to let us know if our worries about Hornby going down the cheapo route are founded or unfounded? All it requires is someone in the know to post founded or unfounded then we can either plumb the depths of despair about Hornby or froth by the gallon.

 

Why lose any sleep over this? I expect it will be something like business as usual, and given the economic outlook for 2012 and maybe beyond, less in the high detail part of the range.

 

How the pricing of the overall range pans out we'll discover soon enough... One positive area is that the seasonal pre-froth to the announcement this year has been significantly pared back (though post-announcement, I suppose we'll get some of the usual contrite comments about what has (not) been addressed in the 2012 range)... dilbert

[The Stationmaster]

On MREmag Pat Hammond alludes to the fact that the chosen ones will be attending the Hornby briefing shortly which will set out plans for 2012. As usual there will be an embargo on news of releases before 25,12,11 (Which will inevitably be broken..sorry my cynical side). However would it be breaking any embargoes to let us know if our worries about Hornby going down the cheapo route are founded or unfounded? All it requires is someone in the know to post founded or unfounded then we can either plumb the depths of despair about Hornby or froth by the gallon.

What - and spoil all the fun of the frothing? There's the thrill of an added element in the frothfest this year - not just 'what' but also 'what to what level of detail' giving room for even more loony imaginative ideas and permutations. Just the sort of spicing-up the frothfest needed to keep it fresher than the X Factor while editors and commentators review their adjective dictionaries to seek out something to describe it all.

 

Now there's an idea - could we perhaps also have an 'editorial adjective' frothfest to go with the other one so that we can tease out a few ideas on how whatever the policy turns out to be will be described?

(struggles to remove tongue from cheek and goes to put the kettle on).

 

Edited to hit the correct keys and restore some words to recognisable form

[spamcan61]

 

Why lose any sleep over this? I expect it will be something like business as usual, and given the economic outlook for 2012 and maybe beyond, less in the high detail part of the range.

 

 

 

Indeed: Hornby's public statements are in their press releases and financial statements; the situation can be boiled down to:-

 

- They have declared an intention to introduce a range of 'mid-fi' models like the Tornado - I really can't be bothered to copy the statement verbatim for the fourth time in this thread.

 

- They have declared an intention to produce more movie tie-in and suchlike franchised items.

 

That's it.

 

Everything else is froth. :-)

[spamcan61]

Are Hornby a cheap toy company or the brand leader in the model railway field?

At the moment they seem to be dithering between the two.

The overheads needed for one are not conducive to the cost base of the other.

My experience is that when a brand leader moves away from a policy of continuous improvement it starts to go down an ever steepening slope heading for oblivion.

Bernard

 

There's nothing to stop them being both, they just need to be clear about branding.

 

I suspect they figure they are already at or past the optimum quality versus profit point, but hopefully they won't back off too far.

[jonathan452]

On MREmag Pat Hammond alludes to the fact that the chosen ones will be attending the Hornby briefing shortly which will set out plans for 2012. As usual there will be an embargo on news of releases before 25,12,11 (Which will inevitably be broken..sorry my cynical side). However would it be breaking any embargoes to let us know if our worries about Hornby going down the cheapo route are founded or unfounded? All it requires is someone in the know to post founded or unfounded then we can either plumb the depths of despair about Hornby or froth by the gallon.

Did I not read that this year it will be (Tuesday) 03.01.12?

 

EDIT Just found this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhHRdwTiWks ........................................

Does this portray the theme of this thread? (Particularly the Hull Trains Javelin!)

[Guest dilbert]

 

Did I not read that this year it will be (Tuesday) 03.01.12?

 

Or 34th December 2011 ! The embargo is humbug... dilbert

[40F]

Have we all been looking at this the wrong way ?. Have Hornby realised that the model market may be shrinking and therefore taking precautions to combat this.

[S.A.C Martin]

Did I not read that this year it will be (Tuesday) 03.01.12?

 

EDIT Just found this -

Does this portray the theme of this thread? (Particularly the Hull Trains Javelin!)

 

I think it portrays sadly that there's far too many youngsters using Youtube to put forward ideas without a cohesive way of doing it. That's one of about a million other similar videos, about 83% of those similar uploads are done by males, and mostly in the 16-25 age bracket. (Source: Youtube Analytics 2011).

[Physicsman]

I do wonder, as I contribute the seven-hundred-and-fiftieth post in this thread whether we are all spending so much time on this topic that we aren't actually doing any modelling!

 

As dilbert said, and I think he's right, at the end of the day...why lose any sleep over this.

 

But it's fun! So.....when does the froth begin, lads?

 

Jeff

[Ron Ron Ron]

I'm looking forward to the announcement of the Scalextric Paralympic wheelchair racing set, complete with digital lane changing and DCC sound [Admin Edit Properly Censored this time].

Do you think it'll available in South West Train Colours?

 

Hopefully they'll also announce a set of Skaledale Olympic themed Cockney Pearly Kings and Queens, complete with a Limited Edition Pie and Mash framed print and a CD of old favourite "East End ' classic like "My Old Man" etc. Class !

 

These are going to look good on my layout too...... http://www.Hornby.co...oxauto/8036.jpg

 

Things are looking up.

 

.

[Legend]

Model Rail are stating they will have Hornby 2012 details in next mag. Its out on the 29th December and if you remember subscribers usually get their copies up to one week early, So I don't think we'll last to 34th December! I think the gloss is off this year though, with so much from previous years outstanding.

[moorlander]

Surely it makes sense for Hornby to do whatever it thinks best to survive as a business.

Every customer has different ideas and a budget as to what Hornby should be doing.

I suspect if you were the powers that be at Hornby, You would not do things any better or worse than they do.

 

If it keeps the balance sheet happy. Lets have some cheap and cheerful models. Big black ugly locos that go choo choo and clickety clack.

I would sell snow to the penquins, if they bought it .

 

These days, not everyone can afford expensive detailed limited editions.

Credit to Hornby or any retailer for been realistic these days.

[7013]

Frothing requests have already started on MREmag.

[Guest dilbert]

Nah... it's the prélude to the 2013 w**hlists where the punter can also choose which manufacturer should make a model - crazy man, crazy ... dilbert

[RJS1977]

 

Perhaps this happened when they realised they had made such a video and totally failed to mention customers once in the entire thing!

 

Or maybe they slipped up over the copyright for "The Chain" which someone referred to about 50 pages ago! (Maybe the video was only really intended for internal use and was made public by mistake).

[Physicsman]

Isn't the "locked" YouTube video that was posted 700ish posts ago the same as the video on the Model Rail Live DVD that was free with issue 163 (last month)?

 

Not that I want to watch it again. Too much schmaltz for my liking and, as someone said today (dilbert?), no mention of the customers at all.

 

Jeff

[Guest dilbert]

Too much schmaltz for my liking and, as someone said today (dilbert?), no mention of the customers at all.

 

Nay, 'twas Gulliver, honest (however I do dislike 'schmaltz').

 

That there is no direct response from Hornby to this thread is understandable (with the meandering that threads take), ultimately it could never be a positive outcome. If Hornby isn't seeing and taking note of the relevant points raised, then I would be disappointed (along with many others I believe). Let's see what happens over the next eighteen months or so... dilbert

[Physicsman]

Oops, sorry dilbert!

 

Now if I was a "celebrity" I would live in fear of litigation due to my wrong attribution of Gulliver's statement .

 

And I quite agree. If this thread was a little bit shorter then MAYBE Hornby might take some notice.

 

Spamcan's summary today (post 744) sums up the salient points.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff.

[Pennine MC]

And I quite agree. If this thread was a little bit shorter then MAYBE Hornby might take some notice.

 

 

Or then again, if Hornby had at least released a 'press statement' (a la Barwell) at some point, it might not have grown to be quite so long. Long experience here tells me that criticism tends to dry up significantly once the object thereof answers back.

[Coach bogie]

Have we all been looking at this the wrong way ?. Have Hornby realised that the model market may be shrinking and therefore taking precautions to combat this.

This is a definite possibility.

 

From a business perspective it is difficult to compare Hornby with Bachmann as they are very different organisations. If the hobby does go into decline out of the two, there is one who is clearly structured to survive a shrinking UK model market. It will have nothing to do with level of detail, pricing structure etc etc it is down to one key factor -DIVERSITY. Kader/Bachmann Industries only make model railway items to my knowledge, a case of all the eggs in one basket albeit on a global scale (though Kader now lists a property division). Hornby however operate in many different markets. If one declines, then another can prop it up. It can tolerate a loss in one division provided the others are profitable to cover the losses. Two very different structures.

 

Stock market reports show an 11% turnover increase as of 11/11, which in this financial climate is to be applauded, they must be doing something right. Significantly continental European operation show 50% growth compare to the UK 'Mature (including our hobby) markets' of only 4%. In short we are not buying as much Hornby as the Germans so do not be surprised if Hornby are not rushing to fulfill everyones wish list. To quote Hornby 'Germany is by far the largest and most discerning model railway market in Europe'.

 

Hornby have had the quality issues but so have Heljan, Dapol, Bachmann and countless other organisations. As the retailer the quality is their responsibility, but it is obvious that QC is a serious issue across all the manufacturing bases in China, not just model railways.(I had a stereo that burnt out on first use as the Chinese factory had put the wrong transformer unit in-240v into a 110v not recommended). Like all organisations Hornby are rectifying these issues as best they can.

 

I do not purchase every Hornby release but buy enough to justify offering my views. Bachmann Hornby, Dapol, Heljan etc (sorry anyone if I missed you out) are all providing the UK market with a service with releases at a level higher than ever before. Long gone are the days of waiting for just one or two new releases a year.( my concern is that all the manufacturers will run out of marketable heritage protoypes to produce). The management may make comments that can annoy, but they are running a business and are clever enough to structure it for long term survival. We UK modellers may like to think that because it is called Hornby, we are the main market, we are not.

 

So after 31 pages of comments, can we stop knocking Hornby now and just be grateful for what they do provide. I for one prefer to have them (and Bachmann, Heljan Dapol etc etc ) in the UK market place, warts n all, rather than no UK providers at all.

 

Merry Christmas to all at Hornby and all the other manufactures and thank you for your continued commitment to the UK

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

 

Hornby November half year company report here for those who have not seen it.

 

http://dailymail.uk-wire.com/cgi-bin/articles/201111110700318628R.html?epic=HRN

[Gulliver]

 

Now if I was a "celebrity" I would live in fear of litigation due to my wrong attribution of Gulliver's statement .

 

My publicist is hastily contacting my legal department as I type

[Guest dilbert]

From a business perspective it is difficult to compare Hornby with Bachmann as they are very different organisations. If the hobby does go into decline out of the two, there is one who is clearly structured to survive a shrinking UK model market. It will have nothing to do with level of detail, pricing structure etc etc it is down to one key factor -DIVERSITY. Kader/Bachmann Industries only make model railway items to my knowledge, a case of all the eggs in one basket albeit on a global scale (though Kader now lists a property division). Hornby however operate in many different markets. If one declines, then another can prop it up. It can tolerate a loss in one division provided the others are profitable to cover the losses. Two very different structures.

 

I don't think you can compare Hornby to Bachmann in the UK. Hornby Hobbies is basically the top of a structure that owns brands such as Humbrol, Airfix, Scalextric etc... and also manufactures OO gauge model railways , Bachmann in the UK is a brand selling OO and N gauge products.

 

Comparison of Hornby Hobbies to Kader is more appropriate - not sure you can state that Kader is not diverse. They do not only make model railways - they also have a soft toys brand. They operate in different markets, they are big in the US (which Hornby isn't), they design, manufacture etc.. to OEM specifications (Hornby as a customer is familiar with this). The major difference is in their business models - the organisations are adapted to support that business model.

 

Is the Hobby going into decline ? I suppose if the yardstick measurement is based on 4mm RTR sales, then 2012 will most likely see a fall in sales because the ordinary punter will have less money to spend and will be more selective in what they purchase.

 

Hornby may be seeing their market share eroded by fuzzy branding, perceived over-pricing in some parts of their range and other issues that have dogged them over the last few years such as currency exposure and Sanda Kan's initial plunge into oblivion.

 

They do need to have more a succinct branding/pricing approach - a recurrent theme... dilbert

[The Stationmaster]

 

Stock market reports show an 11% turnover increase as of 11/11, which in this financial climate is to be applauded, they must be doing something right. Significantly continental European operation show 50% growth compare to the UK 'Mature (including our hobby) markets' of only 4%. In short we are not buying as much Hornby as the Germans so do not be surprised if Hornby are not rushing to fulfill everyones wish list. To quote Hornby 'Germany is by far the largest and most discerning model railway market in Europe'.

 

 

So after 31 pages of comments, can we stop knocking Hornby now and just be grateful for what they do provide. I for one prefer to have them (and Bachmann, Heljan Dapol etc etc ) in the UK market place, warts n all, rather than no UK providers at all.

Mike Wiltshire

Hornby November half year company report here for those who have not seen it.

http://dailymail.uk-...R.html?epic=HRN

I always try to read any sort of press release from any company or large organisation with more attention to what isn't there rather than what is One thing this statement does not contain is any sort of figure solely relating to their UK model railways sales apart from the bald statement that 'Sales of Hornby model railway products were higher than last year.' - we don't know how much higher in either money or percentage terms so we haven't really got the first idea how their UK sales of model railways compare with their German sales of model railways (without even considering the much higher unit price of the latter nor the lack of significant retail discounting in the German market. nor the supply chain improvements. All we know is that UK model railway sales grew and that it appears 'Tornado' played a big part in that - which is not too surprising when you think about what else Hornby had, or hadn't, released in the period up to this reports.

 

True the UK is a 'mature market' for model railways but so is Germany/the rest of Europe for Hornby in its new international business - and it is a market which is starting from a pitifully low base (which is hardly Hornby's fault of course).

 

Equally I'm not sure if this thread has 'knocked Hornby for what they do provide' - the thrust of concern has been, I think, more about what they might either cease to provide or not take so much interest in providing or might charge too much for (at RRP) in relation to our perceptions of particular products (with the latter fear being first expressed sometime before this thread emerged). I think some of those concerns were summed up in the last few sentences of Dilbert's most recent post plus we have the competitive situation of an expanding variety of hi-fi loco models which may be influencing Hornby's thinking. At the end of this month we might know enough from their plans for 2012 to see where they are going next; in the light of that I think this thread may well have run its course.

[Mod5]

I think we possibly have reached a point where nothing else adds much to the thread. Andy has extended an open door invitation in person to Simon Kohler and as, when, or if he decides to respond well then I feel sure Andy will inform all of the result. So until that happens then this is closed.