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China clay cda wagons


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If you had a thin strip of black decal materiel, could you cut it up into rectangles to represent the holes, that doesn't look bad in the distant shot but the closer ones it shows the staining doesn't come from those specific 'holes' in the body and I wonder whether that would help?

 

Thank for that mate yeah will have a look see what i can do

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  • RMweb Gold

Resurrecting an old thread...

 

I am currently sorting out the research for my new clay layout, (along with revisiting the research on my old clay layout back in 2007/8).  One point on which I have yet to find confirmation is when the ECC international logo was removed from the side of the CDAs.  So far I have found photos post the EWS refurbishment circa 2000 and plenty around the time they were introduced, but no photos in the 1996-1998 early privatisation period.  (with those that I have found too dirty to identify).

 

Love the photos of the prototype wagon, not one I had seen before.  It is now on the list to do both in its original 1980s condition with red frames, and in 1998 condition as well. With those ladders it rather stands out within a rake.

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Resurrecting an old thread...

 

I am currently sorting out the research for my new clay layout, (along with revisiting the research on my old clay layout back in 2007/8). One point on which I have yet to find confirmation is when the ECC international logo was removed from the side of the CDAs. So far I have found photos post the EWS refurbishment circa 2000 and plenty around the time they were introduced, but no photos in the 1996-1998 early privatisation period. (with those that I have found too dirty to identify).

 

Love the photos of the prototype wagon, not one I had seen before. It is now on the list to do both in its original 1980s condition with red frames, and in 1998 condition as well. With those ladders it rather stands out within a rake.

Sounds good.
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  • RMweb Gold

I’m looking at converting some Dapol HAA’s to CDA’s using some Skytrex parts and I see there’s various interpretations of the roof end. 

The Hornby wagons have the roof all the way to the end but most photos show the ends inset so I guess the Hornby one is incorrect?

 

What’s not clear is how this is dealt with, or if it’s the same in all?

Photos like this suggest it has a vertical end inset and there’s a trough there?

CDA china clay hopper 375007 at Lostwithiel on the 1st March 2004

 

CDA Wagon Derailment Par.

 

Others have it plated over . .

Dscn1056%20-%20CDA.JPG

 

Anyone know the variations? :) 

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First of all, do not look at the Hornby CDA if you want to see what the real thing looks like.  About the only thing they got right were the end vents, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if they are slightly over scale.  It is by far and a way the worst current generation wagon any of the major manufacturers have produced

 

The main differences between a CDA and a HAA:

  • The aforementioned end vents
  • Slots in one side along with the ends to allow water to drain away
  •  The roof opening mechanism on one end
  •  The side plate
  •  Finally the roof.

 

The two pictures you have found are a good starting point, there are a couple more on Flickr which give a better view of the end area (I may have linked to them on my CDA detailing thread).

 

in short, the ends of the wagon (circa 12-18 inches or so) was filled in, along with a strip along one side.  Curved end plates on both ends on which the roof moves.  along the centre of the roof you have the roller bar and its associated linkages.   Finally at one end you have a vertical bar & box which forms part of the roof opening mechanism (needless to say this part doesnt even get a crude approximation on the Hornby one.)

 

I think that covers it all from memory, I spent a lot of time last year upgrading Hornby CDAs into semi passable models correcting all of the above.  Though I had to resort to paint for the slots in the side.  I don't know how thick the plastic is on the Dapol model, but I think in 7mm if these were missing it would be a lot more visible. 

 

edit: I cant see the third photo, but I wasn't aware of a different design (other than the prototype).  Although from memory there were a couple of batches supplied new, followed by a batch converted from redundant HAAs.  It would be interesting to see the number to confirm if it came from the latter batch

 

 

 

 

Edited by The Fatadder
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On 26/09/2011 at 21:49, treggyman said:

Hi

Having seen this wagon at St Blazey I had always assumed the ladders at either end were original,but the picture taken at Bodmin shows they must have been a later addition;I wonder why?

I took a photo of a photo at the Wadebridge exhibition last year of when the wagon was new which shows it with ladders attached.It is shown with red strapping etc but dated ,as I recall, approx '86/87.

post-7844-0-18126300-1317069134_thumb.jpg

 

But back to the current situation,a couple of pics of the other end taken in Oct 08.Note that there seems to be no air or similar gear either end of the wagon!!! Possibly removed?

 

post-7844-0-51555000-1317068933.jpg

post-7844-0-66124700-1317069394.jpg

 

Hope these are of use

 

Cheers Bill

I see prototype 353224 is included in the new R6963 Hornby National Wagon Preservation Group Hopper Wagons pack. Yes, it would need a bit of modelling to get it right, but could anyone tell me how long it kept its red frame? Did it go into standard ECC blue frame and logo livery? 
Many thanks in anticipation.

66738

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1 hour ago, 66738 said:

I see prototype 353224 is included in the new R6963 Hornby National Wagon Preservation Group Hopper Wagons pack. Yes, it would need a bit of modelling to get it right, but could anyone tell me how long it kept its red frame? Did it go into standard ECC blue frame and logo livery? 
Many thanks in anticipation.

66738

I dont know the answer but I have my doubts it ever received the ECC logo, I will be interested to see what the answer is.  I have been trying to confirm its livery in the 90s prior to the repaint into EWS.  And for that matter when they rebuilt the end equipment into the standard form with the twin end vents (and the removal of the plated area on the end supports).   Having modelled it in as built condition before deciding to focus on my 1998 fleet I'd like to see what is needed to update it.....

 

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And well I’m here, I notice the new R6964 ECC Triple pack of CDA’s are numbered not in the 375*** series but 352916/18/19. I can’t find any information about when these numbers were carried. Anybody? 
66738

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1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

I dont know the answer but I have my doubts it ever received the ECC logo, I will be interested to see what the answer is.  I have been trying to confirm its livery in the 90s prior to the repaint into EWS.  And for that matter when they rebuilt the end equipment into the standard form with the twin end vents (and the removal of the plated area on the end supports).   Having modelled it in as built condition before deciding to focus on my 1998 fleet I'd like to see what is needed to update it.....

 

Hornby produced 353224 in their old tooling. It had the blue frames and ECC branding, so I presumed in real life at some point it did go into the standard livery. I’d really like it if it was in service for a while with red frames mixed in with the standard livery production wagons.

66738

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The new Hornby three pack is a typical Hornby cock up, not numbered after CDA's at all.

 

The prototype 353224 went into ECC blue with ECC logos about the same time the production batch was delivered, don't think you'll find any photos of it running in red with ECC examples, was pretty much just for the initial trials.

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11 hours ago, nat37670 said:

 

The prototype 353224 went into ECC blue with ECC logos about the same time the production batch was delivered, don't think you'll find any photos of it running in red with ECC examples, was pretty much just for the initial trials.

do you know if it was rebuilt with the vents / changes to the support structure at the same time?

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8 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

do you know if it was rebuilt with the vents / changes to the support structure at the same time?

 

almost certain, although not 100%. Once it was blue sure the only difference was it's ladders and the fact it kept its original HAA number (unlike the other HAA converts).

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  • RMweb Gold
On 24/09/2011 at 21:19, Boscarne said:

Hopefully this is what you're looking for;

 

post-9877-0-01153900-1316895304_thumb.jpg

 

See at Bodmin General on 22/9/96.

 

There's also some informtion on the CDA's here; http://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_030.php

 

Hope this helps.

 

Clive.

I am about to start work on a model of the prototype CDA in late 90s condition, so far I have only found a single photo of the wagon.  @Boscarne I dont suppose you would be able to repost this one please?

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6 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

I am about to start work on a model of the prototype CDA in late 90s condition, so far I have only found a single photo of the wagon.  @Boscarne I dont suppose you would be able to repost this one please?

 

By prototype I take it you mean 353224? IIRC the photo at Bodmin General turned out to be one of the final conversions (375125-37). There were several posted of 353224 abandoned in a far corner of St Blazey Yard, thankfully rescued and now preserved by the National Wagon Preservation Group. However I can offer this if it helps:

PrototypeCDAconversion353224atLostwithielApril2000.jpg.bf63398e5aa949aada7ad87b8c6c02dd.jpg

I took this at Lostwithiel in April 2000 (28th I think - I was there only yesterday........photographing CDAs again!) as I was scanning the numbers for 375000, noticed this oddball passing and raised the camera in time, as I realised on the spot that Hornby were not so far off the mark after all when they numbered their first CDA release 353224 (which makes the numbering of their last CDA releases as HAAs all the more inexplicable). I didn't even notice the ladders at the time, it was the number wot dunnit. I hope this 'photo of a photo' will do as I'm not sure where the negatives of this day are right now, they'll be here somewhere.......

 

However I have only recently located the negatives of the two shots I took of 375000 brand new in St Blazey Yard on 14th September 1987 (hence my interest in this wagon, currently stored with 40 others there, all now up for disposal - will it end up on the Bodmin & Wenford Railway? with 7 others?) so hopefully I can coax my long-idle negative scanner into life and post the results shortly - after all, with the end just days away, now would be the right time......fingers crossed!

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Thanks, very useful.  I am really trying to find a photo of this wagon in early 1999 as I would like to confirm when it went to Ponts Mill to be refurbished / repainted into EWS.  So far I’ve only seen two photos close to 1999 (1997 and yours in 2000), alas both showing the same end.   
 

of course there are a lot more recent images showing it from all sides which will help. 
 

I will be converting a Cavelex CDA starting at the weekend.  Need to get some ladders ordered

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Success! Two views of brand new CDA 375000 at St Blazey on 14th September 1987 - an incredible coincidence as I hadn't visited the depot for 10 years (2 months and 17 days!) so its presence was a lovely surprise. For probably the last 30 years I knew where the prints from this day were but they got separated from the negatives and the latter only came to light earlier this year when my Other Half was going through a large pile of negs she found......somewhere. As we went through them I was delighted to find not only these, as they included a shortly-to-depart Class 142 Skipper 142023 and ex-works 37670 in its short-lived Railfreight red stripe livery, both at Middleway Crossing, but also a lot of other missing 1980s railway negs which, to be honest, I hadn't even realised were missing until then (I scanned almost everything I had until the end of the 1970s some years back but still need a round tuit for the 1980s and beyond......🙄) On top of this, around 20 years ago I rather stupidly sent the print of the top view to a model railway magazine who never used it and never returned it (not BRM I hasten to add 😉!), so I haven't seen this one for.......well, around 20 years! Hello old friend 😃..... (hey look, there's one of those debranded TUAs in the background, as now modelled by RevolutioN Trains):

 

FirstCDAatStBlazey-14_09_871.JPG.8358b53dbbd6c767c6e468d11e807f96.JPG

FirstCDAatStBlazey1409872.JPG.8803c8d3224ccba0552ef0640b5253b0.JPG

 

Some of you may have already seen the lower pic as I took another 'photo of a photo' a while back and put it up - can't recall which thread now. As I mentioned at the time, as it's just visible, these two views confirm that 375000 was odd man out, in that the smaller of the end vents were mounted on diagonally opposite corners - the one in the lower view was (and still is - it was never modified) positioned above the brake distributor and presumably this was not regarded as ideal, as all others have them on the same side, away from this equipment. Certainly 375001 did - it's currently parked behind a hedge, but visible, in a small rake stored opposite the Roselyn Coaches depot. But not for much longer apparently. 375000 is also there within a longer rake but I'm sure all hell would break loose if I wandered in through the yard gates to take some photos like I did nearly 36 years ago...........I miss those days, but then I miss a lot of things on the railway. Don't we all?

 

I'm so pleased to have been able to share these as the time of the CDA clay wagon draws to a close - a reminder of how they looked when brand new..........for about 3 days 🤣!!

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Well, I had sort of been expecting it at some point in the not-too-distant future, and the trial run of loaded JIAs from Goonbarrow to Fowey a couple of months ago did put the writing on the wall, but two weeks' notice of the end of the CDAs after more than 35 years' faithful service still took me by surprise. The first week was lost to the weather and for me other 'obstacles' - I did get to Middleway Crossing on the (sunny) Monday 31st July, but wasn't aware that the loaded Goonbarrow working (6G09) had a habit of leaving 30 minutes early, so I missed it. Last week then had to be made the most of, so I was back at Middleway on Monday, then on to Lostwithiel for the run-round manoeuvre (plus semaphores plus HSTs, all similarly approaching the end). I was very pleased to see this week's workings in the hands of 66199 still in full EWS livery (also on borrowed time of course!) Back again on a rather drizzly Tuesday, day off Wednesday (service cancelled), back again Thursday - a sea mist evaporated in time for the last loaded CDA run from Goonbarrow but returned with a vengeance after it had passed Par station - those who went to Golant to intercept it on the causeway there got some very moody images (this seemed to be a south coast thing, apparently it was lovely in Padstow!!)

At some point between mid-day Tuesday and the end of Wednesday last week the 40 stored CDAs which had been visible through the hedge and yard gate along St Blazey Road for at least the last three and a half years were moved into the sidings at the far end of the yard - well, they had to make some space........ These had been vacant since the 1989 HAA conversions (375124-37) had been sent for scrap some years ago, although 375125/35/37 are still in use as reach wagons at Fowey Docks.......or not now. The last resident of course was the prototype HAA conversion 353224, since rescued for preservation.

Last Friday, the very last day of CDA operations (and coincidentally the 55th anniversary of the end of BR steam traction........yeah OK, that was probably the more important event!) was a much better day weatherwise - 6G09 was cancelled as expected, instead the last loaded run was from Parkandillack (actually Treviscoe) to Fowey - this was due through Par at 16.38, the question was, when would it ACTUALLY run? How early would I have to turn up to see it?! Realtime Trains was no use as its start point was too close by. I left home on foot 'in plenty of time' (hah!) and made it to the level crossing into Par Docks at 13.30 when 66199 appeared on Par Viaduct with its CDAs in tow - oh bu99er! - turns out it had departed Treviscoe exactly 3 hours early. It seemed to be slowing for a signal stop so I sprinted under the bridge, around the corner and down the footpath alongside the line to the only section free of vegetation and fencing and managed to grab some shots of the wagons, which were already moving by then. Phew, mission sort of accomplished then! I watched as the very last loaded CDA passed out of view through Par station. I had wondered about the possibility of catching the empties making their last move of all from Fowey into store in St Blazey Yard that evening - they were 'supposed' to arrive there at 23.15 but regular monitoring of RTT didn't help and it turned up 4 hours early at 19.13 while I was having my tea! Which meant in daylight of course.....all of these workings were captured by other more dedicated souls used to the vagaries of (trying to) photograph modern freight traffic - me, I remember just arriving lineside down here 50 - 55 years ago and not having to wait very long for something to turn up, with unknown motive power, usually diesel-hydraulic (i.e. not the same locomotive for the entire week!) This is why, despite moving back to my native Cornwall three and a half years ago, I failed to get motivated to record the local clay traffic until I really really had to - having miraculously photographed the first CDA brand new in St Blazey yard all those years ago I couldn't miss the end of their era. I can't see me being so bothered when the JIAs' time is up.

Which reminds me, today's 6G09 was formed of seven JIAs as expected (the WTT was altered apparently in an attempt to reflect the train's habitually early departure.........but it still left 13 minutes early!) Exactly how these bogie wagons are being unloaded on equipment designed for 4-wheel CDAs isn't yet known - but only six returned empty. Oops, the first hiccup? Word is that the JIAs' reign on the Goonbarrow - Fowey workings may not be for long, ex-Tilcon JGAs have been mentioned, perhaps these have been judged better suited to the discharge facilities at Fowey? Confirmation would be much appreciated. I think the reluctance of Imerys to invest in new facilities (and wagons for that matter) is understandable for such a short local flow. However the usual 38 CDAs were an impressive sight and Rocks Driers are clearly still turning out a lot of dried clay most days of the week which could never realistically be moved by road, especially Cornish roads so, one way or another, long may it continue.

I called in yesterday to see what's what and the newly redundant CDAs are now parked where the others (see below) had been for the past 3.5+ years......

 

18 of the 40 long-stored CDAs in the corner of St Blazey Yard - Thursday 10/8/23 - they were probably moved to here the previous day (I bet they really missed having a Class 08 for this kind of thing!) Note that some (not all) of these CDAs are now missing the vertical canopy operating shaft:

1-StoredCDAsatStBlazey-10thAugust2023.jpg.1ec204203fe072aaa25053291eff230a.jpg

 

They include the First One (fortuitously positioned opposite a gap in the vegetation) - compare with my photos of the same wagon brand new taken 36 years earlier. 375000 unusually has its number/tare weight vinyl panel printed in white instead of yellow like the rest. It's another one now missing its vertical canopy operating rod and apparently also its air cylinder under the cradle supports at this end, hopefully both will be restored during preservation 😉...........plenty of 'Christmas trees' about!! Proof that its unique feature - the small vent box at the nearest end being positioned above the brake distributor instead of the nearest corner - was never changed to standard - Thursday 10/8/23:

4-FirstCDAwithdrawninStBlazeyYard-11thAugust2023.jpg.1e29347e263f45f01c151fc658e03d77.jpg

I also noticed that a couple - 375006/18 I think - were the other way around compared to the rest - this can only have been achieved on the turntable......?

 

66199 approaches Middleway with the last loaded CDA rake from Goonbarrow - vegetation growth along the other side of the track makes photography from Rundles Walk almost impossible now. AIUI the semaphore signals at St Blazey will remain for the time being, only those at Par station will be replaced in the coming months - Thursday 10/8/23:

2-66199on6G09thelastloadedCDAworkingfromRocksDriersGoonbarrow-10thAugust2023.jpg.50997e1d41493b79b12976861f48855e.jpg

 

Possibly the historical 'money shot' of the week - HST (43027/187), CDA wagons and semaphore signalling (and 66199's livery!) all facing the chop - CDAs gone by the end of the following day of course. The clays departed shortly after the HST - the earlier sea mist which could have ruined the moment is just beginning to roll in again in the background. I got a bit damp walking home! Fifty years ago there were hardly any trees visible in this scene, and the well-trodden footpath which runs beyond the station building alongside the main line was entirely in the open - and thus wasn't bothered by today's brambles and mud.......it's overdue some maintenance! - Thursday 10/8/23:

4-4302743187on2P131150Penzance-Plymouth66199on6G09lastloadedCDAsGoonbarrow-Foweyandsemaphoresignalling-allchange!-10thAugust2023.jpg.1c5b4cea38e6aa9da433adde79eb5fff.jpg

 

Gosh, that was close! Just made it to the walled bit of the above-mentioned footpath to catch the very last loaded CDA working of all - Treviscoe to Fowey - as it rolls through Par station at about 13.40 on Friday 11/8/23 - The End:

2-ThelastloadedCDAworkingofallTreviscoe-FoweypassthroughPar-11thAugust2023.jpg.89570cfd51087a2498a224c8911658ab.jpg

4-ThelastloadedCDAworkingofallTreviscoe-FoweypassthroughPar-11thAugust2023.jpg.45509ab0e6705c9a199e4e5559834dfa.jpg

OK, well this one is literally The End!

150247 silently parked in Chapel Siding in case anyone at all is interested. Anyone? No? I do understand. It was having a rest because of all the IETs on the Newquay branch in connection with the 'Boardmasters' surfing event - these were full reservation only (and absolutely bunged full of young people) so the locals had to make do with a replacement bus service due to Newquay branch capacity issues. Seeing GWR's 9-car 125mph finest trundling through the weeds on what resembles a Third World single track railway at Middleway is a real eyeful!

 

Over and out!

 

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