Jump to content

Transfesa blue fruit vans - 195x to the 90ies


simao28
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello

 

I am a Portuguese train enthusiast and I was looking for information regarding some Transfesa vans that regularly visited the UK.

They were numbered in the Spanish Renfe pool although some had also German DB registration (perhaps even DR).

Their main characteristic was that they had wood panels and were painted blue.

They came in various configurations - standard, with end doors, with small brake compartment and with a big brake compartment (DB ones)...

 

I was looking for old pictures of them (195x to the 70ies maybe) and some help finding the manufacturers (several companies in Germany built them apparently).

The "cream of the crop" would be to find construction drawings (but since this is a British forum and these are German wagons.....)

 

I enclose 2 pictures of them.

The b/w picture is a still from a Spanish movie: ( http://www.forotrenes.com/upload/hardtonic/vids/historiarenfe/historiarenfe04.mp4 )

 

post-13042-0-79297600-1317188556.jpg

 

post-13042-0-83524900-1317188559_thumb.jpg

 

 

Best regards,

Alberico Duarte

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello

 

I am a Portuguese train enthusiast and I was looking for information regarding some Transfesa vans that regularly visited the UK.

They were numbered in the Spanish Renfe pool although some had also German DB registration (perhaps even DR).

Their main characteristic was that they had wood panels and were painted blue.

They came in various configurations - standard, with end doors, with small brake compartment and with a big brake compartment (DB ones)...

 

 

 

Alberico Duarte

 

Alberico, the best source of photo's is Paul Bartlett http://paulbartlett....ransfesavan1959

 

I also have a series of out-of -date 'fotopic' links - I have not tracked down if they have reappeared.

 

Are you a member of French wagon group http://wagon.discutforum.com/ ? they might have some more details.

 

British Rail had a diagram book for Ferry wagons, it started as Cxxxx series numbers, then SFV6xxx numbers, then became Exxx numbers - I will look the right ones up tonight. - some of these are available from Barrowmore MRG http://www.barrowmor.../Prototype.html

 

There was a drawing in an old Model Railway Constructor magazine in the 1950-60's.

 

I have scratchbuilt one of these using the BR diagram/MRC drawing, but I'm not totally happy with the proportions - I'll take a photo tonight.

 

The renumbering into UIC scheme seems to have been a bit random - I'm struggling to work out any pattern.

 

Jon

Edited by jonhall
Link to post
Share on other sites

They were very common at Paddock Wood in Kent, where there was (is?) a Transfesa depot. We used to call them the Spanish Onion trains, as you could often see (and smell) bags of onions through the ventilator openings.

You might well find some more photos if you search for trains at "Paddock Wood".

I have some photos and notes somewhere, but not on this computer. Will look later.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreeing with eastwestdivide, I remember them for importing Spanish onions.

There was a Transfesa depot in Paddock Wood and I am pretty sure Paddock Wood was on the old Speedlink Network, although I don't think we had any direct services from Bescot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreeing with eastwestdivide, I remember them for importing Spanish onions.

There was a Transfesa depot in Paddock Wood and I am pretty sure Paddock Wood was on the old Speedlink Network, although I don't think we had any direct services from Bescot.

Paddock Wood was served by a Speedlink trip from Dover- at one time there was also a Rowntree's depot near to the Transfesa one, hence the white-roofed VDAs at Dover Town yard. In more recent times, the Transfesa depot was leased to Philips Whirlpool- it burnt down a few years ago on our wedding anniversary; my wife was very late home because of it. Transfesa had another depot at Edge Hill, as well as sending fruit and veg to various terminals around the UK. A lot of the vehicles returned home with chemicals from Teesside- for a long time, during the 1980s, there was one that ran off the hump at Tees Yard, abandoned at a very odd angle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my scratchbuilt transfesa blue - as I've already said I'm not entirely happy with the proportions, so plan A (copying in resin) probably isn't going to happen either. The dilema is whether to take the custom etched vents off this one, or get another set done and build this as a one-off.....

 

J

 

post-336-0-49544700-1317230825.jpg

 

and another photo link http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/ferry/spain-transfesa-wooden-vans-1.htm

Edited by jonhall
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.flickr.co...157603210839981 and others in the same set

 

j

 

 

Hello

 

Thanks to you both.

I had already seen Paul Bartlett's site. Its very good.

This last page on Flickr I did not. And its very helpful in recognizing one or two inscriptions which weren't readable on other pics. Thank yu very much.

 

On "Barrowmore MRG" they recently uploaded 3 diagram books last week (I had previously contacted) that help establish at least some series and the evolution in quantities and numbering ( there are usually 2 diagrams of each type):

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Book_01_Issue.pdf

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Book_02_Issue.pdf

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Book_03_Issue.pdf

 

In "wagon.discutforum.com" I contacted some members and came across the diagram I posted.

 

But still no clear pictures of the vans in the early years (with era 3 markings).

Its a little bit frustrating as they came in large quantities and passed through Portugal, Spain, France, England, Germany and others...

And information is so scarce apart from pictures of the 70iess and 80ies...

 

 

Best regards,

Alberico

Link to post
Share on other sites

But still no clear pictures of the vans in the early years (with era 3 markings).

Its a little bit frustrating as they came in large quantities and passed through Portugal, Spain, France, England, Germany and others...

And information is so scarce apart from pictures of the 70iess and 80ies...

 

 

There are several photo's in the 'Lens of Sutton' collection from the 1950's

 

negative numbers

65383

65382

65381

65384 all show Transfesa blues.

 

They can be obtained from Roger Carpenter, 48 Edenhurst Road, Longbridge, Birmingham, B31 4PQ, but I don't know if he has a website, our how he deals with overseas orders.

 

I have a promotional catalog from Transfesa c1969 - it has printed UIC numbers, but the wagons photographed are still carrying p5xxxxx series numbers - its too big to scan at home, but it might fit the scanner at work, I might try tomorrow if I have time.

 

Is it just the ferry vans or all of the Transfesa fleet you are interested in - there were also some refrigerated wagons that carried Transfesa lettering in ferry service..

 

Jon

Edited by jonhall
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Jon

I will try to have a look at the "Lens of Sutton" collection then.

Is your catalog in color? Some pictures from the early years are confusing about the round Transfesa logos.

For instance my first picture (probably from the early 60ies) shows the circles and horizontal band in a clear color (white??). But other photos show them darker (in the normal red used up to today).

Perhaps the circles were white in early years??? Or just an effect of a color filter in the photography?

This happens only in the vans equipped with the brake compartment.

 

If it is easier just to copy the catalog on paper please let me know and I'll pay for it.

Else the scans are fine if its not much trouble :)

 

Refrigerated wagons are also interesting as there is also little info. But I would be vary happy for just the fruit vans.

 

Its funny how you can find more information on Spanish wagons in England than in their home country - Spain :)

 

Best regards,

Alberico

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I didn't find any notes, but did find some photos, of the common blue type and some other oddities, all from about 1982-1986:

RENFE-registered blue one with a platform at the far end:

post-6971-0-50106700-1317237758.jpg

 

Two refrigerated versions in white, one at least FS-registered, similar to the Interfrigo type which was common at the time, both at Paddock Wood:

post-6971-0-95600600-1317237753.jpg

post-6971-0-22511500-1317237751.jpg

 

A swap body type of thing with a different logo, SNCF-registered, in a train of blue ones, possibly Paddock Wood/Tonbridge/Ashford:

post-6971-0-06179100-1317237747.jpg

 

and two more modern ones, one RENFE, one DB registered, both at Hoo Junction:

post-6971-0-02337200-1317237738.jpg

post-6971-0-24406500-1317237743.jpg

 

saludos/arrivederci/salutations/mit freundlichen Grüssen (depending on the van)

Edited by eastwestdivide
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Its funny how you can find more information on Spanish wagons in England than in their home country - Spain :)

 

 

When you consider how unusual they would have been over here, it's always surprised me that there aren't more photo's...

 

There are a few modellers interested in cross-channel traffic.

 

There is (apparently) a grounded Transfesa blue at the Strathspey railway, I didn't see it when I visited, but I wasn't looking for ferry wagons back then..

 

Here are two scans of BR promotional material - they would have been given to Railfreight salesmen to show customers what sort of wagons they could send their goods in.

 

Jon

 

post-336-0-42181500-1317238290_thumb.jpg

 

post-336-0-24963200-1317238305_thumb.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

When you consider how unusual they would have been over here, it's always surprised me that there aren't more photo's...

Ferry wagons generally or Transfesa in particular? That was my entire stock of Transfesa photos, but there's plenty more ferry wagons scanned in (opens car of worms/rod for own back!). Maybe time for a gallery or a new topic so as not to hijack this one.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ferry wagons generally or Transfesa in particular? That was my entire stock of Transfesa photos, but there's plenty more ferry wagons scanned in (opens car of worms/rod for own back!). Maybe time for a gallery or a new topic so as not to hijack this one.

 

Either - get scanning!!!! Thanks,

Jon

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice pics, thank you

 

Jon, on your first scan "TFV2" it seens the vans have "DB" registration...

 

xx RIV

xx DB? (there seem to be only 2 letters - its short to be RENFE like on the 2nd scan...)

 

If so then these are from the German numbered pool of vans

Link to post
Share on other sites

Big yes from me for more scanned photos. Like horseboxes, you can't have enough ferry vans.

 

Simao28, I have a couple of scanned photos which might be of use, if you PM me your email address.

 

I assume you're modelling in HO? You'll have seen the Electrotren version of these:

 

transfesa_zps6476417a.jpg

 

I don't know how accurate the body is dimensionally, but a new underframe would transform it. I haven't got round to having a go at some of these yet; so many vans, so little time.

Edited by jwealleans
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've found some notes, but not the ones I thought I had. Living in Kent, I used to see the wooden blue ones almost daily, and tried to make sense of the numbering system in the absence of any published information.

Somewhere, hopefully, I'll have something better than what follows, but here are a few observations:

 

1982, all in Kent.

some have the check digit missing from my notes

 

24 71 028 4 541-6 Linke Hoffmann Busch 1950

24 71 028 4 542

 

028 5 026

028 5 778

 

24 71 028 5 500-5 (Westwaggon-Köln-Deutz)

24 71 028 5 921 (Westwaggon-Köln-Deutz)

24 71 028 5 075 with guard's/brake platform (Waggonfabrik Krefeld-Uerdingen 1954)

24 71 028 4 699-2 (Linke Hoffmann Busch Braunschweig 1959)

24 71 028 4 860 (Gebrüder Groder & Co GmbH, Kassel-Niederzwahren 1954)

24 71 028 5 477-2

 

Jan 1983 at Paddock Wood, didn't record the country code, probably 71:

028 4 949/972/905/976 and 028 5 079, all with guard's/brake hut on the end

and without a hut:

028 4 576/748/935/841/739,

028 5 608/707/295/777/936/638/895/337/557/877/493

 

July 1983, didn't record country code:

028 4 924 with brake platform

028 5 892 with end doors

 

April 1984, Paddock Wood, and those steel types (as in my photos 5 and 6 above) are appearing:

43 80 239 6 011/012/050/025/074/071/021/031/091/077/059

and also

24 71 239 6 007/011/012/010/014/009/002/003

Note that the central part of the number, e.g. 239 6 011, has repeats with different country registrations

 

May 1984, Rochester, what I've recorded as "standard 028 4/5s" renumbered as:

24 71 214 8 127

24 71 214 8 017

So was there a general renumbering at some point? Were the older vans wooden vans retired about 1984, and the remaining ones renumbered? Too many questions.

 

And I'm fairly sure I saw 80 DB registered wooden ones, but can't find any records just now.

 

Hope that helps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume you're modelling in HO? You'll have seen the Electrotren version of these:

 

A very long time ago I was bought one of these by an Uncle - I din't know better at the time, but it had all metal wheelsets, presumably for 3 rail. Putting it on the track caused a short, but as I was using an H&M duette there was a lag before it cut out - it amused me to push the thing up and down, accompanied by a shower of sparks :)

 

I haven't fully got my head around the numbering yet, but I think Alberico's first photo is the first time I've seem a small guards hut wagon clearly, in combination with the only large brakehut photo I've ever seen (in David Larkins PO book of 30 years ago) might have given me a clearer picture of the later photo's of vans with plain platforms.

 

Jon

Link to post
Share on other sites

If my theory holds, the vans that had a full width brake hut, were rebuilt like this van http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrytransfesavan1959/hd86e717#hd86e717 retaining a narrow panel on the sides (nearest the end platform) whereas wagons with the narrow hut had a full width panel with a ventilator – like the example posted by eastwestdivide. I need to go through my photo references and see if that shakes out a pattern for the re-numbering.

 

Jon

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

There was a drawing in an old Model Railway Constructor magazine in the 1950-60's.

 

I have scratchbuilt one of these using the BR diagram/MRC drawing, but I'm not totally happy with the proportions - I'll take a photo tonight.

 

The renumbering into UIC scheme seems to have been a bit random - I'm struggling to work out any pattern.

 

Jon

 

 

The issue of Model Railway Constructor is October 1966 on page 268.

 

Kevin Martin

Link to post
Share on other sites

Found some more notes, where I derived the following ranges purely from observation:

21 71 028 4 531 to 21 71 028 4 892 without any brake platform/hut

21 71 028 4 905 to 21 71 028 5 079 with some form of brake platform

21 71 028 5 105 to 21 71 028 5 987 without any brake platform/hut.

 

Obviously that doesn't provide a definitive number range or cut-off points for each type.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If my theory holds, the vans that had a full width brake hut, were rebuilt like this van http://paulbartlett....86e717#hd86e717 retaining a narrow panel on the sides (nearest the end platform) whereas wagons with the narrow hut had a full width panel with a ventilator – like the example posted by eastwestdivide. I need to go through my photo references and see if that shakes out a pattern for the re-numbering.

 

Jon

The two diagrams of E215 that have recently been published on the Barrowmore site show the van before and after the removal of the 'hut'. Diag E379

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrytransfesavan1959/hd86e717#h9f903ae retains an appearance of having the hut - although several of my photographs with the number series show that they were removed.

 

Paul Bartlett

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...