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Transfesa blue fruit vans - 195x to the 90ies


simao28

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If my theory holds, the vans that had a full width brake hut, were rebuilt like this van http://paulbartlett....86e717#hd86e717 retaining a narrow panel on the sides

 

Jon

 

That is what I think also. It makes perfect sense.

And further after those, or the others with the small brake compartment lost the platform completely.

On Paul's site there are some vans with a lateral wheel brake on one end. I suspect them to be ex-huts with the side panels revised and platform remove... or the ex-small platforms with the platform removed:

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrytransfesavan1959/h1c9ca86f#h1c9ca86f

 

As they are registered in DB....I would go for an ex-hut with the sides "standardized"?!?!?!

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May 1984, Rochester, what I've recorded as "standard 028 4/5s" renumbered as:

24 71 214 8 127

24 71 214 8 017

So was there a general renumbering at some point? Were the older vans wooden vans retired about 1984, and the remaining ones renumbered? Too many questions.

 

Thank you very much.

Its a great list to organize and possible draw more conclusions.

The last number reorganization corresponds to the second UIC numbering modification (the first was in the 70ies when it was implemented and in the 80ies they changed some codes as well).

 

And I see from your list that in 82/83 the small brake compartment was already gone?

But you can still see vans with the brake hut? I is very interesting,

 

Also "028 4 9xx" should be vans with the hut. So in 1983 you saw both "huts" and "ex-huts".

On these you don't know for sure the country code...71 or 80:

 

"Jan 1983 028 4 949/972/905/976 and 028 5 079, all with guard's/brake hut on the end"

"July 1983 028 4 924 with brake platform"

 

The "huts" should have been all BD registration...

I have seen pics with them transformed (platform only) in RENFE numbers.... at some time some DB vans changed country registration.

But the only pics I saw with the "hut" were all DB registration.

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Here is another one seen on a Spanish forum some time ago:

 

http://www.forotrene...9&hilit=pitufos

 

 

file.php?id=71223

I do like that brakeman's cabin... The script used for all the lettering is nice as well; I hadn't realised Gaudi did wagons as well as cathedrals.

I wonder what the purpose of those cabins was, given that most freights in mainland Europe were fully-fitted long before the UK; perhaps as early as the late 1950s. The most recent wagons I've seen with them were FS vans built in the mid-1960s.

The last time I saw any of these wooden Transfesa vans would have been in 1993 or there-about, when I saw quantities stabled at a station between Perpignan and the frontier- I think it was at Port-Vendres- where there were exchange sidings for a branch to a harbour.

The refrigerated wagons were stripped of their bodywork at about the same time, and rebuilt as flats for the Ford Dagenham/Silla service; I saw the first batch of those heading south the same day at Cerbere.

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I wonder what the purpose of those cabins was, given that most freights in mainland Europe were fully-fitted long before the UK

 

Hi

At least in Spain several wagons still had similar cabins in the 70ies so that a rail employee could activate the brakes in transit when the locomotive was not powerful enough to brake the train.

And the regulation stated that the last wagon in a train had to have brake platform.

All the wagons built in Spain through the 50ies, 60ies had the cabins. Usually in a series of wagons some were built with cabins and others standard.

For instance this iron ore hopper:

 

th_57albumdevagones1977.jpg

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Right I spent last night going through the drawings photo's and notes that I had, and I this is a DRAFT of my interpretation of Transfesa wagon numbering

 

Transfesa Diagramas [02A]

24 71 028 6 100>101 H...... (11.740) >6.600< -10.430- <24.5> 50.5 - (CAF 1952) -- "ventré"

BR Diagram C5136 (part) (later dia E407 ? )

Pre-UIC numbers PHfv 500126 to 500130 (5of)

UIC 24 71 028 6 100 and 101 (2of)

 

Transfesa Diagramas [02]

24 71 028 6 105>184 H...... (11.740) >6.600< -10.430- <24.3> 50(Macosa 1952) -- "ventré"

BR Diagram C5136 (part) (later dia E407 ? )

Pre-UIC numbers PHfv 500201-280 (79of) note r5 of the diagram says 500211-280, I think this is an error).

UIC numbers 24 71 028 6 105 to 184 (79of)

 

Transfesa Diagramas [04]

24 71 028 5 001>100 Hfhs (12.960) >6.700< -11.148- <26.0> 53.5 - (Alemania 1954)

Small brake hut – later just brake platform.

BR Diagram SFV6009/E009 (part) (Later E555? )

Pre-UIC numbers PHfnv 501001 to 100 (100of)

UIC numbers (first) 24 71 028 5 001 to 100

UIC numbers (second) 24 71 214 8 496 to 594 (99of) possibly only after loss of brake hut ?

 

Transfesa Diagramas [04A]

24 71 028 5 101>199 Hfhs (12.460) >6.700< -11.148- <26.0> 53.5 - (Alemania 1954)

Plain ends – no brake hut

BR Diagram SFV6009/E009 (part) (Later E555? )

Pre-UIC numbers PHfnv 501101 to 200 (100of)

UIC numbers 24 71 028 5 101 to 200 (100)

 

 

Transfesa Diagramas [04B]

24 71 028 5 200>499 Hfhs (12.460) >6.700< -11.148- <26.0> 53.5 - (Alemania 1954) -- & 24 71 028 5 976-3

Plain ends – no brake hut

BR Diagram SFV6010/E010 (part)

Spanish registered Pre-UIC numbers 501201 to 500 (300of)

UIC numbers 24 71 028 5 200 to 499

 

Transfesa Diagramas [06]

24 71 028 4 500>899 Hfhs (12.460) >6.700< -11.148- <26.0> 53.5 - (Alemania 1959)

Plain ends – no brake hut

BR Diagram SFV6010/E010 (part)

German registered Pre-UIC numbers 514000 to 399 (400of)

UIC numbers (first) 24 80 028 4 500 to 899 (400of)

UIC numbers (second) 24 71 028 4 500 to 899 (400of)

 

Transfesa Diagramas [04D]

24 71 028 5 501>999 Hcfhs (12.460) >6.700< -11.148- <26.0> 53.5 - (Alemania 1954)

End doors

BR Diagram SFV6011

Pre-UIC numbers PHfv 501501 to 502000 (500of)

UIC numbers (first) 24 71 028 5 501 to 999 (499 of)

UIC numbers (second) 24 71 214 7 000 487 (487of)

 

Transfesa Diagramas [06A]

24 71 028 4 900>988 Hfhs (12.960) >6.700< -10.723- <25.0> 51.5 - (Alemania 1959)

wide brake hut – later just brake platform.

BR Diagram SFV6215/E215

Pre-UIC numbers 514 400 to 499 (100of)

UIC numbers (first) 24 80 028 4 900 to 999 (100of)

UIC numbers (second) 24 71 214 8 397 to 485 (probably after removal of hut)

 

I’ve not yet worked out where these fit…

Transfesa Diagramas [06B]

24 71 028 4 989>999 Hfhs (12.460) >6.700< -11.148- <26.0> 53.5 - (Alemania 1959)

 

and I also have a reference forBR diagram 556 which might turn out to be the transfesa dia 06A and 06B wagons – but its nice outside, and I have the day off, so I’m not going to do any more for a few days….

 

Jon

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The "huts" should have been all DB registration...

I have seen pics with them transformed (platform only) in RENFE numbers.... at some time some DB vans changed country registration.

 

The other interesting observation I have about the DB registered vans seen in Paul Bartletts photo's is the exchange code (21 80 xxx x xxx) these should be 24 for variable gauge wagons - did DB regard these as a fixed gauge fleet? I haven't bothered feeding the numbers into a check-digit calculaor to see if the rest of the number computes...

 

Jon

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Hasn't quite a lot of the Spanish network gone over to (or been built to) 4'8 1/2"? They took a number of 37s for construction work a few years ago and I don't recall hearing that they were regauged.

 

No, the 37s were for the new high-speed lines which were (I think) independent of the national network and thus built using off-the-shelf kit to 4' 8.5". certainly all the mainline railway I saw in Spain when I was last there - Talgo with a wheel flat and all - was 5' 6".

 

Adam

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No, the 37s were for the new high-speed lines which were (I think) independent of the national network and thus built using off-the-shelf kit to 4' 8.5". certainly all the mainline railway I saw in Spain when I was last there - Talgo with a wheel flat and all - was 5' 6".

 

Adam

The high-speed lines form a separate network; however, they are connected to the existing national network, and there are high-speed trains which can use both.

The line from Perpignan, via Figureas, towards Barcelona is standard-gauge, but is intended to accomodate freight and high-speed passenger trains. In the Barcelona area, the line is being linked to parts of the broad-gauge freight network- this is having a third rail added to make the port accessible to freights from the north. I would envisage this process being repeated in other places, as traffic demands.

Returning towards the original subject, reliable sources inform me that the return of perishable traffic by rail from Spain is imminent- watch this space..

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Transfesa Diagramas [02]

24 71 028 6 105>184 H...... (11.740) >6.600< -10.430- <24.3> 50(Macosa 1952) -- "ventré"

BR Diagram C5136 (part) (later dia E407 ? )

Pre-UIC numbers PHfv 500201-280 (79of) note r5 of the diagram says 500211-280, I think this is an error).

UIC numbers 24 71 028 6 105 to 184 (79of)

 

Hello

 

Only a small correction. The totals should be 80 vans.

Thank you for the compilation of the diagram data.

 

For the manufacturers... so far there are 4 for the more common types (excluding the Spanish built shorter vans):

 

Waggonfabrik Uerdingen (now Siemens) - I dropped an email but I am not hopping to find anything based on previous attempts

Westwaggon Koln (closed...)

Linke Hofmann Busch (now Alstom)

Creda ?!?!?

 

I started some posts on 2 German forums but so far no replies (on one there are 1000+ topic views)

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Did you pick up these from my post 19...

24 71 028 4 541-6 Linke Hoffmann Busch 1950

24 71 028 5 500-5 (Westwaggon-Köln-Deutz)

24 71 028 5 921 (Westwaggon-Köln-Deutz)

24 71 028 5 075 with guard's/brake platform (Waggonfabrik Krefeld-Uerdingen 1954)

24 71 028 4 699-2 (Linke Hoffmann Busch Braunschweig 1959)

24 71 028 4 860 (Gebrüder Groder & Co GmbH, Kassel-Niederzwahren 1954)

Is it possible that one of Creda and Groder is a mistake reading a dirty constructor's plate?

I can only find one reference to Creda with Transfesa, in this Spanish forum:

http://www.railwaymania.com/cs_forum_th.aspx?ch=2&th=225728&o=1

And google gives 0 results for "Gebrüder Groder"

I think I transcribed Niederzwahren wrongly - should be Niederzwehren.

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Did you pick up these from my post 19...

 

.....

 

Is it possible that one of Creda and Groder is a mistake reading a dirty constructor's plate?

I can only find one reference to Creda with Transfesa, in this Spanish forum:

http://www.railwayma...2&th=225728&o=1

And google gives 0 results for "Gebrüder Groder"

I think I transcribed Niederzwahren wrongly - should be Niederzwehren.

 

Hello

 

Sorry. Had missed the manufacturers part on your post completely :(

From the Spanish forum I got a few clews (apparently "Creda" and "Groder" is a misspell of "Credé"):

 

They talk about other Transfesa wagons being made by "O & K für Credé" (O & K for Credé)

 

"O & K" is surely "Orenstein & Koppel". And "Credé" is "Gebrüder Credé & Co. GmbH"

 

So I think we can add/replace "Gebrüder Credé & Co. GmbH" to the list:

 

- Waggonfabrik Krefeld-Uerdingen

- Westwaggon-Köln-Deutz

- Linke Hoffmann Busch Braunschweig

- Gebrüder Credé & Co. GmbH

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Lovely stuff- I've never seen those EVS curtain-siders before. Any idea where you saw them?

BTW, the first two digits for the SNCF-registered stock are 87- 84 is NS (Holland), I believe.

One of the EVS vans is at Hoo Junction (in a train with a Transfesa blue and another bogie curtainsider, the other (43 87SNCF 239 6 005-2) at Crewe works open day with an 87? in the background.

Sorry, some of my slide numbering system seems to have got mixed up into the file names which also contain the wagon numbers.

84 8 21 is year 1984, film 8 slide 21. Now fixed for clarity in the titles.

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Great album, thank you.

I can see a "cousin" of another wagon that also came to visit in Portugal:

 

http://www.rmweb.co....fs-809-2-572-9/

 

A identical wagon but with "Interfrigo" lettering and the ability to change axles visited Spain and Portugal. (Also there are no reinforcements visible on the underframe)

The numbering was also different.

There were Italian and Belgian ones:

 

Italian----------------------------------------------

 

(1st UIC numbers)

14 RIV-IF

83 FS

088 8 200 to 429 (& 455 to 509)

Ibefs

 

(2nd UIC numbers)

14

83 FS

809 2 200 to 409 (& 430 to484)

Ibcefs

 

Belgian------------------------------------------

14

88 SNCB

088 8 000-199

Ibefs

 

You can see a picture in Spain of an Italian type:

 

post-13042-0-35610000-1317892230_thumb.jpg

 

 

Any picture of these by any chance?

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Any picture of these by any chance?

Sorry, that's all the photos I have. Your last picture and mine (the one you linked 809-2-572-9) are very similar. I guess these are older than the Interfrigo wagons at http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferryitalianinterfrigo - I saw many more of these in the UK in the early 1980s, and very few of the ones you listed.

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Sorry, that's all the photos I have. Your last picture and mine (the one you linked 809-2-572-9) are very similar. I guess these are older than the Interfrigo wagons at http://paulbartlett....alianinterfrigo - I saw many more of these in the UK in the early 1980s, and very few of the ones you listed.

 

Hello

Yes they are very much alike. I only notice that the one on your photo has those angled reinforcements below the underframe and "my" series doesn't.

Mine were built by "Bombrini Parodi Delfino (BPD) / SNIA" in 1966.

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