jonhall Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Interfrigo was a European 'pool' of vans from about half a dozen different countries (some railway administrations, and some indipendant companies like Transfesa) - its probably worth an entirely seperate thread... Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm surprised that this resource http://www.amazon.co.uk/International-Wagons-Colour-Modeller-Historian/dp/0711034044/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1317937128&sr=8-8 doesn't appear to have been mentioned. Just returned a copy I'd borrowed from the library - but quite attractive at the price Amazon are listing it for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'm surprised that this resource http://www.amazon.co...17937128&sr=8-8 doesn't appear to have been mentioned. Just returned a copy I'd borrowed from the library - but quite attractive at the price Amazon are listing it for. Hello I have the book. Its worth the money in my opinion. But I was disappointed to find only 2 pictures of the blue Transfesas and only one good of an Interfrigo. I had higher hopes I guess since there was a fleet of almost 1585 blue Transfesa vans... But the book was a good discovery for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Hello I have the book. Its worth the money in my opinion. But I was disappointed to find only 2 pictures of the blue Transfesas and only one good of an Interfrigo. I had higher hopes I guess since there was a fleet of almost 1585 blue Transfesa vans... But the book was a good discovery for me. Or it could be that there are too many? There have been many hundreds of different designs of wagons which could work between the UK and Continental Europe, so making a selection is very difficult to fit into such a format. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Or it could be that there are too many? (...) Paul Bartlett Don't judge me wrong. The book is very good. When I bought it I never imagined the large number of wagon types that existed and was only wanting the Transfesas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 As promised, the Transfesa booklet - I've had to photograph it, and as the pages are rather shiny, its not all that easy to get good results, but hopefully these are worth it. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hello Thank you for the scans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 how about this for atmosphere - and the invalid cars were build less than a mile from where I sit typing this. http://www.flickr.co...els/3816531335/ and a few other ferry van links http://www.dansk-jer...307/sh03222.jpg http://www.dansk-jer...307/sh03226.jpg http://www.dansk-jer...307/sh03225.jpg http://www.trenomani...album=825&pos=0 http://www.trenomania.org/TMF-Estero/displayimage.php?pid=5541&fullsize=1.html http://www.photorail...hs214-8-913.jpg http://www.photorail...4%208%20572.jpg http://www.photorail...50701licata.jpg http://www.photorail...sca%20copia.jpg http://www.photorail...ms804-5-427.jpg http://www.flickr.co...N07/4671543946/ http://www.flickr.co...009/5580248864/ http://brdiesels.web...collection1.htm http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=22437 http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=18358 http://www.mwwilson....rndocks1986.jpg http://www.flickr.co...per/4138515928/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2220852453 even if the interfrigo vans on this page arn't ferry, the wine tanks are..http://www.ferramato...id=59&Itemid=53 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 how about this for atmosphere - and the invalid cars were build less than a mile from where I sit typing this. http://www.flickr.co...els/3816531335/ Hello I think in that one you can see a silver/grey FS refrigerated van and the similar but gauge-changeable Interfrigos that came to Portugal and Spain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 There is the barrowmore model railway site that has the br diagrams online. Also includes the continentals books. Might be useful for a general body diagram to build a model of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 That Transfesa publicity is wonderful, with the regional costumes, distortion of distances and the use of models for the cover illustrations. Before the days of changeable-gauge wagons, the loads used to be transferred between wagons at Cerbere/ Port Bou; at one of the two, there is a statue commemorating the work of the women who use to transfer the boxes of citrus fruit. I recommend a visit to Cerbere & Port Bou to watch the various operations- the link between the two is via two single-track tunnels, with local passenger services being run by SNCF and RENFE. Each runs loaded in one direction, empty in the other, a legacy of the closed frontier of Franco's days. Almost all the various freight handling operations can be observed from the two stations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Quite correct, now removed. The Barrowmore site has the diagrams for the Transfesa vans as I mentioned earlier. Paul Bartlett Hello Paul Do you have more information about these "blue" ones from your site? I can't fit them anywhere... 21 80 214 1 098-8 (seems to be converted from a wagon with short brake platform - the signal holders give that clue; also the added wheel brake) 21 80 214 1 106-9 21 80 214 1 150-7 (end doors) There should not been any German registered vans to made it to UIC-2 numbering...... supposedly they passed all to RENFE?!?!? Yet here they were... Also those types (the short brake platform and the "end doors") were all originally Spanish... Also the number area shows new paint... A recent change in registration? What a mess.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hello Paul Do you have more information about these "blue" ones from your site? I can't fit them anywhere... What a mess.... Jon Hall responded immediately with my web links, so too late for me to do so. They have also been referred to by others in this thread. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrytransfesavan1959 It takes a second to type Transfesa into the search and get suitable results. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Paul, Alberico has aleady done quite a lot of number crunching - the issue is 3 of your photo's show 'German' wagons in a 'odd' number series (note also my comments on the 21- exchange condition, not the 24- exchange code that I would expect for exchangable axles). I am wondering if DB hired a sub-fleet to do Germany-UK traffic, and numbered those in their own series - when you consider how many ferry vans DB had, the Transfesa german registered fleet would actually more than double the number of vans they had available. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Paul, Alberico has aleady done quite a lot of number crnching - the issue is your photo's show German wagons in a 'odd' number series (note also my comments on the 21- exchange condition, not the 24- exchange code that I would expect for exchangable axles). I am wondering if DB hired a sub-fleet to do Germany-UK traffic, and numbered those in their own series - when you condider how many ferry vans DB had, the Transfesa german registered fleet would actually more than double the number of vans they had available. Jon I've just had a look through the three volumes of diagrams, and can't find any listed with a 21 exchange code for workings to the UK. Is it possible that these German-registered wagons were for use on perishable traffic from Iberia to Germany? Perhaps the Germans had insufficient 'perishable' vans of their own? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Jon Hall responded immediately with my web links, so too late for me to do so. They have also been referred to by others in this thread. http://paulbartlett....ransfesavan1959 It takes a second to type Transfesa into the search and get suitable results. Paul Bartlett I know Paul I was talking about those 3 wagons / photos in particular The German ones that weren't supposed to be German. I found your website long before this forum and it was my first great source of valuable information Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I also found that some Transfesa Blues were rebuilt as car transport wagons - Laaeks 24 71 436 6 xxx. The picture in the leaflet shows some vans on the background being "destroyed". Laaeks 24714366xxx - ex Transfesa blues.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I know Paul I was talking about those 3 wagons / photos in particular The German ones that weren't supposed to be German. I found your website long before this forum and it was my first great source of valuable information apologies to Alberico, I observe, record and do not do why. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Crackingly interesting thread (to this old wagon spotter anyway) !A bit of related background info regarding wheelset re-gauging here.....http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2006/08/gauge_change_technology_hopes.html EDIT May 2015 - link is now broken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simao28 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 apologies to Alberico, I observe, record and do not do why. Paul Bartlett I supposed that since those photos don't have any reference to the "ex-numbers" you didn't manage to get that information? Like original number plate on underframe? Nevertheless your photos are very useful and a great piece of history Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I've just had a look through the three volumes of diagrams, and can't find any listed with a 21 exchange code for workings to the UK. Is it possible that these German-registered wagons were for use on perishable traffic from Iberia to Germany? Perhaps the Germans had insufficient 'perishable' vans of their own? Brian - I think that several things point to them not being used (exclusively) that way - they should have still carried a 24 prefix for exchangable axles in that scenario, that Transfesa also had a fleet of euro-loading gauge/interchangable axles available for Iberia-Germany, and that Paul photographed them in Warrington! Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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