Lima UKF Palvans - adding a little variety

[Enterprisingwestern]

On 21/10/2020 at 09:08, jonhall said:

Might be an early shellstar blue one?

 

Jon

 

I'm of the opinion (always suspect) that the "blue" ones which appear in random shots are actually faded/weathered BR grey vans.I have a photo of an ex works curtainside conversion with Shellstar branding in brown and white livery, so I doubt they ever appeared in blue as a doored wagon.

 

Mike.

[Scott B]

Here you go.

One of three images of what look like curtainsiders on John Turners Flickr site.

Going by the dates of the images I would think that any blue "doored" versions that are pictured with brown/white UKF versions had, at that point, clearly escaped the repainting program.

 

 

 

Scott

Edited November 21, 2020 by Scott B

[jessy1692]

It is a very interesting question if some doored vans did get blue or grey, both images are the same train on the same day back in 84. In the top pic the 3rd van does look grey but the lower image on the other side it certainly looks blue, and i think the colour in the pic is correct as the yard lamp is NE blue.

Zooming in on the lower pic it looks like some doors/panels are in grey:

This probably raises more questions then it does answers. The pics on Paul's site of the wagons in the plain livery with Scottish & lloyds logo and the shellstar & shell logo are all in pretty filthy condition so very hard to tell what is under the muck but as Mike says they look grey.

I wonder if it was just 1 van that was blue as a one off? Its not a rebuild by the look of it as it has no trussing so one of the later batches.

Hope this helps

James

[hmrspaul]

There were doored versions with a Shellstar livery but the body colour appears to have been white, not the blue associated with the curtainsided originals  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/ukfvan/e53721046

 

Paul

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Having been through Paul's photo's , (and purchased the relevant ones!,), there are other pictures of what seem to be white vans like the one Paul refers to above, although so filthy that is it is very difficult to ascertain what the original livery was. One theory of mine was that the brown paint of the early brown/white/Shellstar livery was put on over the white and combined with age and it not being applied so well and the maybe chemical atmosphere these vans spent part of their life in, the brown was washed off.

 

Mike.

[jessy1692]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Having been through Paul's photo's , (and purchased the relevant ones!,), there are other pictures of what seem to be white vans like the one Paul refers to above, although so filthy that is it is very difficult to ascertain what the original livery was. One theory of mine was that the brown paint of the early brown/white/Shellstar livery was put on over the white and combined with age and it not being applied so well and the maybe chemical atmosphere these vans spent part of their life in, the brown was washed off.

 

Mike.

Morning Mike, good theory, pitty them vans are so dirty its nearly impossible to see, im not too sure the whole brown stripe would come off though. Hard to tell with the grot on them though!

 

I have been thinking that maybe the two Ashford batches were introduced in the grey/white livery? Wagons in the 7031-7048 numbers do seem to in the livery of the Lloyds & scottish roundel on the left and shellstar shell logo on the right. The pics from Paul are early 80s so id say the weathering looks about right for 9-10 years in use/neglect.

The next Ashford batch of 18 was the BRT batch i think and pics do show the plainer livery. 7158 is shown in brown and white but in 91 so assume it had a repaint at somepoint.

 

So, i think the 36 wagons from the 71 & 72 were in the plain white/grey livery when introduced. The next build in 75 (73xx) numbered wagons im pretty sure were brown and white from new 7302 certainly looks that way from the pic you sent Mike.

 

It deepens the question of the wagon my dad spotted in Harrogate, certainly is from the later batches with no trussing but is in a plain grey/blue livery. There are other pics on flikr showing a blue looking van too- edit this has trusses! so im getting more convinced it may have been a one off.

 

I might ask my Dad to have a look through some more modern railways magazines from the time to see if we can get some more info.

Cheers

James

Edited November 23, 2020 by jessy1692
Adding some more

[Waveydavey]

The David Ratcliffe book on private owner wagons says the L&S 1971 build were delivered in grey and the 18 BRT vans in brown. I have seen a suggestion, attributed second hand to a Paul Bartlett article in the HMRS, that the BRT vans were actually grey too. As all the colour photos I’ve seen show filthy wagons it’s anybody’s guess as to what shade of what colour they should be. Very perplexing when I’m trying to model them in relatively clean 1975 condition. 

[jessy1692]

12 minutes ago, Waveydavey said:

The David Ratcliffe book on private owner wagons says the L&S 1971 build were delivered in grey and the 18 BRT vans in brown. I have seen a suggestion, attributed second hand to a Paul Bartlett article in the HMRS, that the BRT vans were actually grey too. As all the colour photos I’ve seen show filthy wagons it’s anybody’s guess as to what shade of what colour they should be. Very perplexing when I’m trying to model them in relatively clean 1975 condition. 

Hmm, interesting on the mention of the BRT build being brown, Lima did sell them in plain brown so wonder if that livery wasnt as fictitious as i thought. Ill try get my Dad to go through Modern Railways for 71 to see if  theres any news and hopefully pics.

 

[Waveydavey]

Looking at Paul’s photos of the BRT vans I’m 90% convinced I can see the same grey as on the L&S version under all that filth.
 

Funny that these vans seemed to get so mucky. Dark muck on and around the door bars which could possibly be oil or grease and rust and ‘white’ staining around the hinges. Is it possible the white is alloy corrosion?

[jessy1692]

Evening all, my pair of curtain side ones have been sent up to the layout finally to be mounted on their bogies.

Interesting project for these two but I'm in no rush to do any more at the mo, very much trial and error to get the curtain side look I wanted.

If anyone would like the artwork I made up for them, just drop me a PM iv just run out of all my spare printed transfers.

Cheers

James

[GRUNFOS]

Hi all 

Any ideas which would be the best Kadee to use? I'm thinking 146, anyone used any or has better suggestion?

Thanks Paul.