Weekday Cross Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thanks Brian I like "fascinating" - it grabs my attention and keeps me modelling. The ordinary is boring! The Lord Warden is currently owned by the Dover Harbour Board and is being sub-let to businesses after renovation. As for the Pilot House, maybe the pilots were very inflexible about moving? - slightly surprising, as the Admiralty Pier must have hindered their view, once it was built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 There is a page here explaining the history of the Dover pilots and the Pilot House. To summarize, the stone Pilot House was only built with the arrival of the railway in the 1840s, when the previous wooden structure had to be demolished to make way for the railway. After 1852 the pilots operated a boat offshore rather than wait in the Pilot House to sight vessels in the Channel. The Admiralty Pier was started in 1848, SER ferries using it from 1851. The rails were extended onto the pier in 1861, the same year the LC&DR opened its terminus at Dover Harbour. The LC&DR extended onto the pier in 1864. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Well not knowing the location I now feel like I do. Looks like a very interesting layout look forward to following this one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I have discovered that the Kent Records Office in Dover has some information relating to the railways and the Dover Harbour Board. I hope to go along and see what is in there soon. According to the summary, it includes some information on the SER station. The station and the hotel were built on DHB land, I believe, so the DHB had a say in what happened. Lots of information, judging by what shows up on the National Archive website. I noticed they have plans and elevations of a proposed extension to the pilot house and plans and elevations of a clock tower. I wonder if that is the big one on the drawing you posted or the little one at the entrance to the pier on one of the photos. I think you might need to plan on spending quite a bit of time at the records office. As to whether you can call it Dover or not, if you model it according to all the known information, then why not? It's not like anyone is going to come forward and prove you wrong. If they do, well that's all to the good as it adds to the knowledge of the area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Lots of information, judging by what shows up on the National Archive website. I noticed they have plans and elevations of a proposed extension to the pilot house and plans and elevations of a clock tower. I wonder if that is the big one on the drawing you posted or the little one at the entrance to the pier on one of the photos. I think you might need to plan on spending quite a bit of time at the records office. As to whether you can call it Dover or not, if you model it according to all the known information, then why not? It's not like anyone is going to come forward and prove you wrong. If they do, well that's all to the good as it adds to the knowledge of the area. This site might also be of interest:- http://www.dovertransportmuseum.org.uk/ It was housed in a building on the seafront, but has now moved to Whitfield, a little out of the town centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Lots of information, judging by what shows up on the National Archive website. I noticed they have plans and elevations of a proposed extension to the pilot house and plans and elevations of a clock tower. I wonder if that is the big one on the drawing you posted or the little one at the entrance to the pier on one of the photos. I think you might need to plan on spending quite a bit of time at the records office. As to whether you can call it Dover or not, if you model it according to all the known information, then why not? It's not like anyone is going to come forward and prove you wrong. If they do, well that's all to the good as it adds to the knowledge of the area. Many thanks again, Natalie. Your dedication to duty is immeasurable! Unfortunately, the clock tower is a different beast altogether - see here. I strongly suspect, for several reasons, that the campanile on the SER station was never built. The Pilot House information sounds useful though - I will definitely check that one out! Thanks again WC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 This site might also be of interest:- http://www.dovertran...tmuseum.org.uk/ It was housed in a building on the seafront, but has now moved to Whitfield, a little out of the town centre. Thanks for the information - I have a feeling it is not too far from the Records Office, so if I get time I will investigate this too - though getting some photos of some details of the Lord Warden Hotel is my second most important priority after the Records Office. Lots of information, judging by what shows up on the National Archive website. I noticed they have plans and elevations of a proposed extension to the pilot house and plans and elevations of a clock tower. I wonder if that is the big one on the drawing you posted or the little one at the entrance to the pier on one of the photos. I think you might need to plan on spending quite a bit of time at the records office. As to whether you can call it Dover or not, if you model it according to all the known information, then why not? It's not like anyone is going to come forward and prove you wrong. If they do, well that's all to the good as it adds to the knowledge of the area. The Pilot House information is at Kew, by the looks of it, requiring 3 days notice - so that is a separate visit altogether. I did find a little more held at Dover though, so your quest was well worthwhile - thanks again! As for calling it Dover, I can't see that working to be honest - especially if I extend the diorama. The Admiralty Pier isn't a particularly good thing subject for a working model, although the gun turret at the end would be fun - especially with sound effects! I would be looking to add something from elsewhere instead. Though it would be very long term, somewhere like Sheerness Dockyard, or a Blackwall (with a couple of extra platforms) would be more what I have in mind - a station with water on both sides, but designed for a regular train service and full public access. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 I have played around now with a few small modifications to my Dover-based diorama. The main objective is to make the overall scene slightly better. I also wanted to make an excuse for more regular rail traffic than might have existed on the Admiralty Pier at Dover. I propose to do this by imagining a more normal station beyond the junction. As with the diorama itself, I want to base the imaginary extension on a real place. Sheerness Dockyard station ticks most of the boxes, so I have used it in this latest version of the master plan - though I am considering one or two other possibilities. At the moment, i am not proposing to build anything other than the diorama - but even just imagining what might exist beyond should make things more believable. The fictitious map below shows how the real place might have looked look if something like Sheerness Dockyard station existed beyond the junction, instead of the Admiralty Pier. Sheerness had a single track junction with a siding alongside the main line, more or less as I have drawn things here. It also had an overhead signal cabin, which would neatly hide the exit from the diorama, which is one reason I really like it. Other changes - I have widened the Town station a bit, as discussed earlier. This fits my ideas better than the original. I have also added a road on the far side of the railway, with some buildings on the shoreline, to hide the edge of the backscene a little better. At the moment, I really like it. I think it would be hard to find anything better, without totally destroying the atmosphere of the original idea. I will think about this for a few days and then see how I feel . If I still like it, the next step will be to work out how best to convert my theoretical place into a practical idea for the diorama. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Another day and more information to blow my mind! I found the print below, which is after the Admiralty Pier was built, but before the railway connection, by the looks of it. What is interesting (to me anyway) is that the base of the Pilot House had already been altered from its early form. You can see a girder and what look like doors or gates below the semi-circular window. These were definitely not on the original, as photos show a very different shape at ground floor level with elaborate, curved sides. Also, a copy of the Ashford To Dover book by the Middleton Press arrived. This has a couple of good photos of the station interior around 1921, after the overall roof was removed, but before the approach tracks to the Admiralty pier were modernised. I have also found another couple of interesting documents listed in the National Archives register - including one listing plans and elevations of the SER station in 1842. The general conclusion is that I probably need a lot more time to research and plan this model than I originally thought. I really want to do a proper job. I am now thinking of starting work on it some time in the New Year, rather than straight away. That will give me plenty of time to search for information and visit Dover before drawing up a final plan. We may also know a bit more by then about Farish & Dapol's Southern Region plans. Will there be any more EMUS, for example? So, I may now need to find a little something else to fill in the next 5 or 6 months......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm intrigued by your user name; how did you choose it? at Weekday Cross Junction I had always wondered about that too...thank god for that...I was hoping it wasn't because you were only in a good mood at the weekends.. Another interesting project here WC...some great research so far... Watching with great interest... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Glad your mind is now at rest, Pete - a cross in this sense was a place where markets were held, usually marked by a stone monument of some kind called the cross. Definitely nothing to do with bad tempers - that can happen at any time! There probably won't be another update for a while, as the research is going to take quite a while, by the look of things - especially as the records at the Dover Records office will be unavailable for several months while they are transferred to a new facility in Maidstone. Must be using Royal Mail, I suppose . I may do something else in the short term to fill in the time - maybe a loco, or a bit of track building, just to hone my rusty skills a bit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 When I saw BCNPete's name in the 2mm FS posts I thought I could tap his knowledge when I get round to building Tipton and the canals there. Then I realised his BCN stands for Barcelona and not Birmingham Canal Navigations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 I may do something else in the short term to fill in the time Could you not still work on the baseboards or turnout construction etc to keep it moving along...I am still researching my layout as I build it...modifying as I need to as and when new info/photos come to surface... When I saw BCNPete's name in the 2mm FS posts I thought I could tap his knowledge when I get round to building Tipton and the canals there. Then I realised his BCN stands for Barcelona and not Birmingham Canal Navigations. Sorry Natalie...That's the second time someone thought it was to do with canals...my alias used to be BarcaNeatPete on RMWeb 3...but I don't support Barca and I'm not particularly neat anymore hence the change! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Could you not still work on the baseboards or turnout construction etc to keep it moving along...I am still researching my layout as I build it...modifying as I need to as and when new info/photos come to surface... Nice idea, but I don't think baseboards are a good idea for the time being. Even stock is a bit difficult until I sort out period etc. Something theoretically unconnected may have to do - especially as I hope to have a lot more modelling time now the dark evenings have arrived. Sorry Natalie...That's the second time someone thought it was to do with canals...my alias used to be BarcaNeatPete on RMWeb 3...but I don't support Barca and I'm not particularly neat anymore hence the change! Sounded more like a chat up line to me mate - I'd pretend you know everything about the BCN for now and see how far it takes you.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Evening. I too, am modelling Dover and have made a start,with baseboards and track circuit. Not knowing your time period, I have an o/s map of the "corner" you are modelling, cira...1935/54. I am also modelling Dover Town yard,with only 7 roads instead of the actual 13.it also shows part of the inner platform that was left of the station. Please pm me if this is could be of use to you. As you have not posted here for awhile, have you given up? Information is hard to come by but I do know of another possible source. Regards ........dt....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forest2807 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Any news of progress on these projects would be welcomed by me, Nottingham born, a stone's throw from Weekday Cross, and currently residing just up the A2 from Dover in Nonington! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Morning.... Not having heard anything from the OP for months....... I leave this with you, you may have accessed it by now though.............http://www.doverport...=PictureLibrary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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