Steve Taylor Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Morning all. I'm looking for pictures of 65098 as reference material for a 4mm model using the London Road Models kit. I've chosen this as a suitable candidate for my proposed layout since it remained a Darlington engine all its working life going to the scrapman with many similar engines from Kirkby Stephen and West Auckland in 1954. I've found some pics in Yeadon and in Chapman's Railway Memories 17, however google has thrown up references to ebay sales in the last 3 years showing evidence of the loco on the Darlington and Barnard Castle branch (a bonus as my chosen location is Broomielaw on this branch). Any material or pointers would be most welcome and appreciated. Cheers all Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43129@stainmore Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Hi Steve It may be too late but..... 65098 is a good choice for a Stainmore engine! I have a model of her running on Stainmore Summit made form a Nu Cast kit (all the other J21s are London Road). There are 3 photos in Yeadons all very early BR days, page 10 of Northumberland and Durham Railway Pictorial has a picture dated 1948 at Barney and there is a shot which has been published several times of her coming under the bridge at Lartington. All of these show her with a 2 rail tender which is what you get in the kit I recall. The main work is that she was superheated (as were most Stainmore J21s and J25s) so an extended smokebox is required. I have built several London Road J21s and J25s and I have found the J21 much the harder of the two. The J21 kit is actually a J25 with additional etchings (and work) to convert it to a J21. One of my operators has also built one and found it awkward, whilst the J25 is really straightforward (apart form the smokebox issue). Anyway hope this is some use and I forward to seeing progress Cheers Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Here is a picture of a J21 or J25 that was resting at Beamish in 1987 - may be of use? ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Ray, ta for the link to 65033 at Beamish. I remember seeing that as a nipper and being told by my grandad that that was a proper engine - I was much more interested in 9fs having got a 00 Evening Star and seen the real thing at York (lots of shiny moving stuff sorted of appealed to my magpie sensibilities). Richard, thanks for the pic refs. I don't have the Northumberland & Durham book but it sounds like that pic is a little early for my time period. Ideally I'd like to have done the interwar years but since Broomielaw was closed for most of that period I've settled on the later years for a semblance of some operating interest. Currently 65098 is on hold while i work through a brassmasters kit for an ivatt 4 (Strange coincidence I'd selected 43129 as my subject since it was a Darlington loco for most of my time frame. I don't suppose you have pics for that period do you?) As far as the smoke box wrapper for the superheated j21 goes, I've an Arthur Kimber kit for a j24 which doesn't need its superheated smokebox wrapper so there will be an interchange program when i get round to these. The Lartington shot you mentioned is a lovely ref for the offside but I'm looking for a matching one for the nearside at about the same time to see if there was an external lubricator drive or if it still had the NER equivalent one between the frames - I'm fairly certain that 65097 and 99 had an external drive by the mid-late '50s but can't be certain about 98 as yet. Cheers all Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43129@stainmore Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Hi Steve 65098- I will have a look for some LH side shots when I get home tonight. 43129- Quite a celebrity engine this one, used on lots of railtours so photographs are in abundance, not quite sure of your timescales, are you working in the mid 1950s or later? Personally I like the Ivatts best in plain black with the large numbering. I have just converted yet another (43050) to EM using the original chassis, this was a Middlesbrough engine, I have photos of her working over Stainmore, this seemed quite common ever after the Ivatts were transferred away from Kirkby. I left her in plain black, but accordingly to the new book on Ivatt 4's she was lined out by 1953. I've got another to do with a Brassmasters chassis, this is going replace my Millholme 43129, I have to say for the money I would have preferred a full chassis (like Bradwell) rather than padding out the Bachmann one. Cheers Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43129@stainmore Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Hi Steve I've not got very far with this. The best LH shot of 65098 that I can find is in Yeadons page 64 clearly showing the lubricator drive linkage from the middle crankpin, dated 1949. Later photos seem hard to come by, not that she lasted a lot longer. RCTS Vol 5 does start that the mechanical lubricator were generally not changed even the the boiler was reverted to saturated. Let me know your working period and I will have a look for photos of 43129. Hope this is of some use. Cheers Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Evening Richard, thanks for looking. While it's still a question to be answered its also a bit reassuring that nothing had turned up ...... stops me going back and looking at the same things over and over, so in some ways a bit like having my homework checked before hand in. If I assume, from the dates and other class members, that the lubricator was an external drive, would you have any clear views of that side of any superheated j21 with lubricator? I've just gone back and looked at the Yeadon's ref you've given and from the repair record given, I'm going to guess that other than livery not a lot changed in the last six years of its life. I'll need to reread the boiler differences for the 67a/b boilers in case ther are any visible external differences, but it looks like I have a fair guesstimate now. Time frame.... well if I was truly talented at this game, patient and productive I would be doing Broomielaw around about 1911 when Streatlam Castle possibly provided a range of interesting specials, the NER was at its peak and everything was well kept. If I was all of that and prepared to accept a layout where not a lot happens but it all looks good then the pre-war LNER period would be my preference, uncomplicated liveries, an interesting variety of stock but not a lot going on. However none of that really applies. This is really a learning exercise so its 1954-1964 for me. More happened though the layout is a little simpler, the dirt can hide my poor handiwork, there is a range of rtr that I can convert to p4 as a starting point, and most relevantly I've got more photographic evidence of this period than any other. I'm stretching the time a little to allow me to run a few things at either end in a "its my railway" style but the core years are to be as accurate as posible Let me know how you get on with the brassmasters kit. I've about done the tender though will not complete it until i have a loco to sit it behind so i can set and match the heights. On another tack..... when you were researching Stainmore did you come across any dates for signalling renewals across the route? I'm trying to work out when the tubular posts were "rolled out" and the central division timber posts replaced. Cheers for now Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43129@stainmore Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Hi Steve Sorry for the delay in responding. Stainmore route signalling renewals. I don't think that one can be absolutely specific to a year when there a major, there would be an ongoing programme of renewals as they became due. At Stainmore Summit there are a number of tubular posts, photographic evidence suggests that they were there for the whole of the BR period to closure. Notwithstanding, there were a number of life expired NER timber post signals renewed around the mid 1950s. My layout is a bit of a mixture really, I cannot be absolutley certain that it is 100% accurate, i.e. that the signals modelled all existed in that form on a certain date in time, however they are all accurate as individual pieces if that makes sense! At the summit one NER lower quadrant (a lattice post) existed right to the end. So unless you have a suite of photographs that you can guarantee were taken on the same day you can have a nice mixture of NER, LNER & BR. Cheers Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 I feel a bit guilty - I've only just seen this! I have a gut feeling from photos that a lot were renewed in the mid 50's, but I have heard that some tubular posts were as early as the late '30s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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