Gresley Buffet Cars in the 70s

[RANGERS]

W9135E was a regular on the Portsmouth - Bristol / Cardiff run from as soon as that lost the Inter City dmu sets around 1968. It remains the only Gresley vehicle I have knowingly travelled in and was, at the time, freshly outshopped in blue-grey with a red moquette interior. It was replaced eventually with a Mk1 RMB before the buffet service was withdrawn from that route.

 

The Manchester Piccadilly - Harwich Parkeston Quay boat train was an out and back working for many years requiring only a single set of coaching stock. This included a Gresley buffet for some years which I recall was E9131E.

 

The others which remained in traffic (of which I only knowingly saw E9124E) certainly did turn up at Kings Cross and later in the Highwayman which terminated at Finsbury Park but I don't recall seeing them in the Cambride sets. The Thompson buffets did work to Cambridge however and a photo of one (1706 I believe) was published in The Railway Magazine in 1970 or 71. I no longer have access to copies of that age to confirm more specific details.

 

 

Not all of them reversed in Norwich (Thorpe) station. The avoiding line was still open at the time with some summer dated trains booked to use it. Double-headed 25's were the norm. The last time I made such a trip was from Yarmouth to Doncaster via Reedham (not stopping!), Thorpe curve, Ely avoiding line (the U-turn), March and Spalding via the Axeholme Joint! You haven't been able to do that for a few years.

 

Certainly a good number of summer dated trains used the Wensum curve, the Newcastle and Manchester trains as well as most excursions to Yarmouth but I don't think any of the Birminghams used it, all were booked Norwich stops. The Ely horseshoe curve was one part of the trip I'd forgotten about, you could get a good side on view of the loco from the third or fourth carriage back. I don't remember stopping at Ely on any loco hauled train but we did at least once on a DMU.

 

I've found a couple of pics of 25s and one of a 47 on trains in the mid-70s. Normal sets look to have been five coaches, summer dated trains and maybe Saturday trains ran to 9 or 10.

[ianfolland]

A picture of blue/grey 9124 in preservation at Loughborough, February 1982. Unfortunately I didn't make a note of the identity of the coach on the right.

 

Ian

[BrushVeteran]

Further to my posting of last week I am now able to post the image of E1706E (which also appears on Robert Carroll's BRCS site).

I have also dug out an image of E9128E at Swindon in October 1978. (I had actually written this down as E9120E but on closer examination of the slide if looks more like E9128E). Whilst on this subject I am contemplating building a Gresley/GNR inspection saloon as it ended up DE340042 in 1963 period. Did this last until the blue era. I'm sure that I have come across a view of it on the High Dyke branch when Flying Scotsman and Pendennis Castle were on the line. I believe it was built in 1909 as Dia.10 43178 (3178) but may have this wrong.I hope it is still in preservation. Anyway any info on this would be most welcome and sorry to go off subject... slightly!

[DaveF]

Hi Grahame,

 

Do you mean this photo?

 

 

 

Sewstern D2381 Gresley inspection saloon SECR Pullmans Oct 73

 

Sory if it's a bit off topic, but it is a Gresley coach.

 

David

[coachmann]

Rather than spend agonising time 'kitbashing' a Hornby Buffet Car into a blue & grey type, it would be much easier to remove the sides and replace them with the correct etched brass sides.

[the penguin of doom]

Erm.

 

Its probably not right, but I just did a straight repaint of the Hornby buffet car, and renumbered it W9135E. Hope its not too unprototypical????

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

['CHARD]

Sean, it would do for my ends. Which is just as well, as there's one precisely like this waiting equivalent attention on my W/B.

 

I think there's issues with the sides' flushness, windows and varicose other details, but it all depends how far does too far go, as does every modelling decision we take. I'd be perfectly content, and will be, with a similar bun-truck in one of my Class 1 sets.

 

I just sold a W9135E which was a stretch Hornby (old chassis) with Ian Kirk (I think) sides and scratch roof details, plus detailed and repainted interior. I'm going to finish its replacement to broadly similar spec. I know that won't satisfy the purests (sic), but my pareto attention span weights loco 'correctness' 60% of the whole, with environs and hauled stock trailing in somewhere behind (literally!) in that order.

 

Thanks for posting.

[the penguin of doom]

Sean, it would do for my ends. Which is just as well, as there's one precisely like this waiting equivalent attention on my W/B.

 

I think there's issues with the sides' flushness, windows and varicose other details, but it all depends how far does too far go, as does every modelling decision we take. I'd be perfectly content, and will be, with a similar bun-truck in one of my Class 1 sets.

 

I just sold a W9135E which was a stretch Hornby (old chassis) with Ian Kirk (I think) sides and scratch roof details, plus detailed and repainted interior. I'm going to finish its replacement to broadly similar spec. I know that won't satisfy the purests (sic), but my pareto attention span weights loco 'correctness' 60% of the whole, with environs and hauled stock trailing in somewhere behind (literally!) in that order.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Hi Chard.

 

It was much the same for me. I got this one Second hand just sitting on the shelf shouting "Buy me!" It was Crimson and Cream. I couldn't get the windows out, so had to hand paint it! NOT easy!

 

I understand there's faults with the tumblehomes and various other areas, but to be honest, I don't see much wrong with them. Hey, I'm no expert though. I'm with you on the 60% correct thing too. if it looks right it is right and all that.

 

Like the term "Bun Truck" too. Never heard that one before!

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Southernman46]

I think it's a measure of the quality of the original design that it can carry a "modern" livery like blue & grey so well.

[brian1730]

Gresley Buffet Car 9135 was used on an Edinburgh to Kyle of Lochalsh SRPS railtour round about 1973

this was the first Gresley Buffet the SRPS wanted to buy due to its good condition, but we were told that the

car was claimed by the NRM in York, and since restored to its 1935 condition.

 

9132 our second choice was bought by the SRPS and ran on our tours till 1982/83 its fasted run

was on a London railtour in the late 1970's achieved a record 110 mph on the west coast mainline

and survived. Then since wooden bodied coaches were banned to run on the main line, was replaced

by RKB 1513, hired from BR, then in 1986 RBR 1730 was used and it still in traffic on SRPS railtours

[Russell Saxton]

The Harwich-Manchester wasn't the same stock every day, I often recorded the stock as it passed me (well, tried, it was usually doing 75mph or more and the buffet changed most days-by this time about 1981 it had long been a mark one)

[montyburns56]

Piccadilly 1972

 

 

 

[Artless Bodger]

Easter vac 1976, I was on a geology field course, based in Torquay. Crossing the railway line on the way to Paignton and beyond I saw a Gresley (?) catering vehicle on a train passing underneath, I recall nothing else about the train except it was in blue / grey and had the square paneling immediately making me think 'LNER'. Would this have been on an excursion train? Though I'm pretty sure this would have been mid-week, so at that time of year excursion seems a bit unlikely. No camera of course

[caradoc]

The 1976 RCTS Coaching Stock book shows five Gresley Buffet cars still in service, 9115, 9128, 9131 and 9132 on the ER, and 9135 on the WR, so it could well have been a service train.

 

[SP Steve]

A shaky image of E9115E seen bringing up the rear of a service at Doncaster in the summer of 1973.

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by SP Steve

[Phil Bullock]

May 1976 ... W9135E was in the SPM excursion rake forming the Merchant Venturer Railtour, Bristol to Ravenglass. D1013 to BNS, Sparky to Carnforth, Scotsman and Hardwicke to Barrow, Scotsman and 61306 hence  to Ravenglass. Great day out and a very smooth ride in the buffet....

[Enterprisingwestern]

40 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

May 1976 ... W9135E was in the SPM excursion rake forming the Merchant Venturer Railtour, Bristol to Ravenglass. D1013 to BNS, Sparky to Carnforth, Scotsman and Hardwicke to Barrow, Scotsman and 61306 hence  to Ravenglass. Great day out and a very smooth ride in the buffet....

 

Likewise my comfortable journey from Sheffield to Clacton on a merrymaker in one.

 

Mike.

[leopardml2341]

13 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Likewise my comfortable journey from Sheffield to Clacton on a merrymaker in one.

 

Mike.

Most likely E9131E - travelled many miles in that.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

Most likely E9131E - travelled many miles in that.

 

I've got the full consist in the spotting book of the moment,,,,,,,,,,,,,somewhere!

 

Mike

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

Here's my two penn'orth: in 1978 I lived in Clowne in Derbyshire and worked in Leeds. I commuted by train from Rotherham for a while and I am absolutely convinced that the morning train I used (can't remember the service or timings but probably about 8:00 from Rotherham) had a Gresley buffet in the consist.

Edited June 29, 2020 by 60021 Pen-y-Ghent
Sppeling!

[leopardml2341]

3 minutes ago, 60021 Pen-y-Ghent said:

Here's my two penn'orth: in 1978 I lived in Clowne in Derbyshire and worked in Leeds. I commuted by train from Rotherham for a while and I am absolutely convinced that the morning train I used (can't remember the service or timings but probably about 8:00 from Rotheerham) had a Gresley buffet in the consist.

Probably not - sadly, they were withdrawn in '77.

Edited June 29, 2020 by leopardml2341

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

2 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

Probably not - they were withdrawn in '77.

Maybe a Thompson then, it certainly wasn't a mk1. (In my memory anyway!)

[leopardml2341]

13 minutes ago, 60021 Pen-y-Ghent said:

Maybe a Thompson then, it certainly wasn't a mk1. (In my memory anyway!)

Yeah, there were 2 Thompson Buffet cars (E1705/6) in service still in 1978.

 

Interestingly they didn't carry the 'E' suffix - I guess because although of LNER original design they entered service in the 1948 Flying Scotsman sets, and presumably were BR built.

 

Ignore that..... Each photo I've just found in Blue and Grey - shows them with the 'E' suffix, I was sure I read in RCTS book for 1978, the explanation given above.

Edited June 29, 2020 by leopardml2341

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, leopardml2341 said:

Yeah, there were 2 Thompson Buffet cars (E1705/6) in service still in 1978.

 

Interestingly they didn't carry the 'E' suffix - I guess because although of LNER original design they entered service in the 1948 Flying Scotsman sets, and presumably were BR built.

 

Ignore that..... Each photo I've just found in Blue and Grey - shows them with the 'E' suffix, I was sure I read in RCTS book for 1978, the explanation given above.

The Thompson pair were used on Kings Cross - Cambridge "Buffet Bar Express" diagrams until those trains ceased after which they roamed a little until withdrawal.  They did indeed carry numbers E1705/6E with the suffix.  

 

2 hours ago, SP Steve said:

A shaky image of E9115E seen bringing up the rear of a service at Doncaster in the summer of 1973.

 

Rather unusual, though by no means unique, to have a buffet as the rear vehicle of any train.  It sometimes happened when portion working was in use and it also occasionally happened if the buffet in question was simply being attached to the train for the purpose of getting it from A to B (for example to / from workshops) or as extra capacity rather than as the catering vehicle.  

 

1 hour ago, leopardml2341 said:

Most likely E9131E - travelled many miles in that.

One of those used in the Manchester - Harwich boat train sets and IIRC the last one to be so employed when that working was cut to a single out-and-back working.  

 

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

May 1976 ... W9135E was in the SPM excursion rake forming the Merchant Venturer Railtour, Bristol to Ravenglass.

That one certainly got about.  I first met it when it was based at Cardiff Canton and employed on Portsmouth workings.  Not only did it stand out being a Gresley on the WR but at that time it was freshly outshopped in b/g and often coupled in otherwise maroon rakes.  The fact of having mismatched letters also gained it some attention; there were numerous other examples but W----E always looked out of place to those of us accustomed to the SR units which were always S-----S  

[leopardml2341]

 

But, I wonder what the oddest combinations of Prefix and Suffix were - I've seen Sc.....M (not on a Gresley Buffet though).