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Bryn

2FS Etched 16T Mineral - Group Build

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As discussed in the thread "The Great 2FS Build Off" it was decided to construct a Stephen Harris 16T mineral etched kit between ourselves online. So here it is, step one. Today I will be assembling the body layers. I would suggest you first read my thread on general etched kit construction techniques; http://www.rmweb.co....ion-sh-catfish/

 

READ YOUR INSTRUCTIONS NOW

 

Yes, all of them. Then read them again. This isn't meant to be a replacement for them, merely a visual aid. I'm not being held responsible for any mistakes :no:

 

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First up, gather up your gear. Today you'll need;

  • Soldering iron or RSU
  • Solder/Solder paste
  • Flux
  • A tapered reamer (or a 1mm drill bit)
  • Cocktail stick
  • A scalpel with a new blade
  • Top hat bearings
  • A firm surface to solder on
  • A fine needle file

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First off separate your etch into the four sections required. I do this by folding the etch backwards and forwards slowly until it finally snaps.

 

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Here we are, 3 layer panels and a chassis panel. This is a good time to drill out all those holes required later for items such a brake rigging.

 

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As the instructions say, cut out all the spare bits from layers 1, 2 & 3. If it's not the mineral body or axle boxes it can go. But I like to leave the half and full etched washers attached, this will become apparent later in the series. If you don't know what these washers are for READ YOUR INSTRUCTIONS AGAIN! :beee:

 

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Next the layers need to be tinned. The top of layer 1, both sides of layer 2 and the bottom of layer 3. I use solder paste for this, applied with an old paint brush and then run a hot soldering iron over it all to give a smooth covering. We don't want any large lumps of solder if it can be helped and don't get any on the carrier frame (if you do, scrape it off now).

 

post-2184-0-72479200-1319036877_thumb.jpg

 

Next we want to ream out the 1mm holes in the corners to allow the top hat washers through, these want to be a nice snug fit. Some etches might not need reaming, so check and take a little bit out at a time.

 

post-2184-0-02015400-1319036901_thumb.jpg

 

Now you can layer up you etches around your top hat bearings. These should be flush with the top of the top hat, I would suggest giving each corner a quick squeeze in the vice to ensure they are all touching nicely. If your top hats are loose in the holes and everything keeps falling apart you could always use a small amount of solder to attach layer 1 to the small diameter end of the top hat, or even the mini bulldog clips available from the association shop can be handy.

 

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Now you're ready to start sweating them all together. Give the whole assembly a wash of your selected flux. I normally use my RSU for this, but another technique is an iron and cocktail stick. Working from the centre of each wagon side, clamp the layers down with the cocktail stick and apply the iron next to it and wait for the solder to start flowing. Once you can see bright shiny molten solder coming out of the joint remove the iron and hold the cocktail stick in place until it all sets hard. Then move down a few millimeters and repeat the progress across the whole etch. This might take you some time, I cheated and finished mine off with the RSU.

 

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Here can be seen the axle boxes, what will be essentially layers 4 and 5. Fold them over and solder them in the same fashion as layers 1 to 3.

 

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The finished layering with the carrier folded back.

 

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Now it's time to release your wagon body. First I would suggest you cut out all your axle boxes. Now cut as many tabs as possible and then remove the etched frame from layer 3. Now you can access the rest of the tabs to remove the frame around layer 2 and so on in this fashion with layer 1.

 

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Now go give all your parts a quick scrub up in some CIF and warm water. Once dry go around your parts with a needle file to tidy up any tabs.

 

When you're done, take a picture and write a small report with your experiences.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS THREAD IS ONLY FOR POSTS FROM THOSE INVOLVED IN THE BUILD AND THOSE PROVIDING ADVICE.

Any chat or general ponderings are welcome in the original thread "The Great 2FS Build Off". Thank you.

Edited by Bryn
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post-2184-0-58308200-1319072694_thumb.jpg

CLICK IMAGE FOR BIGGER

 

 

Also worthy of note is not to cut the half etched tabs marked in red too short. These will wrap around the corners when the body is folded up (with the exception of the two lower ones on the door end, they just stay sticking out). Check Stephen's photos for confirmation. Also do not solder the ends of the ribs marked in blue to the floor, otherwise that end won't fold up,

 

You can all thank Craig for this post, he didn't want to see you suffer :banghead:

Edited by Bryn
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Im sure people with thank you for the kindness of that extra bit Bryn ;). Mine needs a trip through the ultrasonic cleaner and a toothbrush scrub! Or I should buy some decent solder paste :scratchhead:

 

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Done with 25w antex, Eileens 145deg and 12% phosphoric.

 

I tend to use a couple of drills rather than bearings to stick the layers together.

Edited by craigwelsh
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Thank you Craig, that's looking great :good: Any chance you tell us how you soldered the layers together?

 

We'll be covering folding up the body soon, so don't panic guys!

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Not to be defeated after a duff start with a broken soldering iron, I popped over to the Warrington Exhibition today and bought another and had a very enjoyable couple of hours heating stuff up. So here's my effort so far...

post-7221-0-16830100-1319405981.jpg

post-7221-0-75080000-1319405998.jpg

 

 

 

 

I didn't swear once to my surprise (and my gf's) and I didn't burn myself either, again surprising. So this is my first soldered kit, and my first attempt to solder anything apart from a couple of DG's and the odd LED. Mr Harris kindly let me have the luxury of an incomplete test etch to practice on, the body is there but quite a bit of the chassis is missing.

 

I used solder paint same as Bryn, as tinning with normal solder looked way too fraught with risk. This solder paint was very easy to use. Once the frames where painted, just passing the iron over then gave me a smooth and thin layer of solder exactly where it was supposed to be. If anything I was probably too frugal with it as when I was removing the carrier frames from the completed body, a couple of the frames came away slightly. However, soldering it back was very easy so no big deal.

 

Flux: Again, no big deal. I just let capillary action take it inbetween the layers before sweating them together. What cleaners are best to remove any reisidue? We had no Cif in, so I used fairy power spray.

 

Sweating the layers together was easy to gauge when I heard the flux fizzing, but sometimes it didn't which may be down to too little flux, or not enough solder, or both? These areas with no fizzing sound where probably the couple of ones that de-laminated. The cocktail stick came in very handy here.

 

Once the layers had been soldered together, seperating the carrier frame was the hardest part for sure. Not only are there tabs you need to cut through and tabs you don't, there also tabs you need to cut through on top of tabs you don't. A lot of care, very slight pressure with a gentle sawing action with the knife was needed. I also found the use of the coctail stick placed between the layers I was trying to seperate helped the frame spring up once I'd cut through so I'd know when to stop. I did manage to cut through the two tabs on the lower door end, despite Bryn pointing these out in the previous post.

 

Overall I'm really pleased with how it's turned out. Soldering, ok, solder painting, sat very well with me and I'm looking foward to doing the next bit. In the meantime, I'll take what I've learnt and get on with one of the complete kits I've got.

 

Paul

 

Edit One thing I forgot to mention is the top hat bearings you need to locate the three frames together. I now know why they sell them in packs of 50. ;)

Edited by 54Strat
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I did manage to cut through the two tabs on the lower door end, despite Bryn pointing these out in the previous post.

 

Don't worry Paul, all 3 of my first 16T minerals are missing these! It took me a while to learn the hard way.

 

Thanks for the excellent write up, I'm really pleased to hear it went well and I'm looking forward to seeing it progress. If anything it should inspire other people to crack on with theirs and it proves there isn't anything to be worried about. The idea about using cocktail sticks to shim apart the layers while cutting the tabs is a good one :good:

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post-8304-0-99319500-1319747776_thumb.jpg

 

Here is my effort. Not sure that I have anything useful to add. I decided to try the Carr's solder paint this time too, with Green label flux in my case.

 

One question about the solder paint: how much do people stir it first? I found at times that I was transferring only an "oily" residue on to the work rather than getting a thin layer of metallic particles. But I got there in the end. Definitely less cleaning up to do this way.

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Guest Natalie Graham

 

One question about the solder paint: how much do people stir it first?

Lots. Until what comes up from the bottom of the jar is the same consistency as what is at the top. It does settle out.

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Top work Mr Yeates!

 

One tip with solder paint, as described my Andy Morris, is to shake the bottle well and then use the paint from inside the bottle cap. Rather than use it from the bottle itself.

Edited by Bryn
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Well, a little later than planned, I've finally joined-in this group build. It's been ages since I did any meaningful modelling and this has been really useful in reviving my mojo, so thanks Bryn! Hopefully we'll see a few more people join in as things progress.

 

I have used Carrs 179 solder cream and a 25w Antex iron (in desparate need of a new tip). A small jewellers screwdriver was used to hold the various layers in place while the heat was applied. I haven't given the body a clean-up yet, but will use some Cif scouring powder later.

 

I have gone a little further than Bryn's initial stage - in cutting the body net from the etch surround, I was a bit concerned that one of the ends would snap off from the floor, so I decided to fold up the body and solder the corners to make it stronger. The solid floor isn't soldered in place yet.

 

post-8055-0-17325500-1319880347.jpg

 

And yes - I did cut off those tabs on the lower sides of the end door! :rolleyes:

 

Andy :)

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Welcome Andy, nice to see you on board :good: Some fine soldering and nice photography!

 

How is everyone else doing? Anyone stuck or any questions?

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How is everyone else doing?

 

 

brynbuild.jpg

 

Excuse the cutting mat, it's led a hard life.

 

Pix

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Nice to see you Paul, this build seems to be gathering momentum now!

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Sorry for the overly long break between updates, work has once again eatten into my modelling time. So lets not waste anymore time and have a quick post on assembling the body, the chassis post will be a bit more involved and I'd like to keep that seperate.

 

post-2184-0-72008500-1320731888_thumb.jpg

Right then... take your main body and gently fold up the sides with your fingers. If you've filed all your tabs off properly you'll find the corners all meet up nicely within their opposing half etched counterparts, I suggest you pinch the corners up closely with your fingers and inspect the join thoroughly. It's not a simple butt joint, but the sides should mesh with each other and almost click into place.... that is until you release the pressure from your finger tips and the corner opens up due to the natural spring in the nickle sheet. To combat this I turn the wagon body upside down on a piece of balsa wood and with the assistance of dress makers pins I construct a jig to hold the corners together for soldering.

 

1) Wipe the inside of the joint with some solder paste.

2) Place upside down in jig and check the corners are up tight.

3) A few quick touches with the soldering iron to join the corners.

4) You might have to stick a few body side side ribs which have de-laminated from excessive heat in the corners. Cocktail stick to the rescue...

 

post-2184-0-77473500-1320732742_thumb.jpg

 

Once the corners are joined you can wrap around the little tabs on the top edge of the body. Nothing too complex, just a quick touch with the iron. Now go clean it all up with some CIF and leave to dry, while this is happening cut out your internal body floor and file off the tabs.

 

post-2184-0-06446500-1320732931_thumb.jpg

 

Coat the bottom of the floor plate with solder paste or tin it with core solder (the bottom depends on which chassis you use, check your instructions) and then push it into the now formed body. As recommended in the instructions I use a block of tufnol in a vice to push the floor plate up into position for soldering. I piece of wood can be used, but the heat might cause it to burn and distort. Once done, go clean off all that residue before it sets hard and becomes impossible to clean off later!

Edited by Bryn

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Sorry for the long delay, I was hoping for a few others to join in before progressing too far and then the holidays got in the the way!

 

First off decide which configuration of chassis you wish to build. For simplicity I will be building the 2 shoe, one sided brake chassis. Please read the instructions to work out which parts are needed. Checking against prototype photos is advised.

 

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Once your parts are cut out and cleaned up I would suggest you ream out holes for top hat bearings so then are a neat fit, before you fold up the chassis.

 

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Here shows the 3 stages I take to fold up the chassis. First partly fold up each side, then get them somewhere near with the vice and finally invert the chassis in the vice and give it a gentle pinch. Any final adjustments can be made with a pair of flat nose pliers.

 

post-2184-0-17929400-1325954152_thumb.jpg

Now fold up the buffer beam.

 

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Here we have the chassis components together. The sole bars are assembled by the methods shown in the Catfish thread, link at the top of this thread. Also fit the top hat bearings, this is also covered by the previous thread.

 

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As you may remember, I said to leave these washers on the fret in my first post. Now you can ream these out so a top hat bear can drop in neatly and solder it in place.

 

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The above mentioned washer/top hat combination is used as mini location dowels to line up the chassis with the body before soldering. I recommend tinning the top of the chassis before assembling the two and then sweating them together with an iron.

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Thankyou for this thread Bryn, it has been very informative.

I have a few MR kits waiting to do, and the tips you have given should make work on those much easier now.

 

Regards,

Chris

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