Bachmann LMS "porthole" coaches

[Pteremy]

Thanks Robert

[MikeParkin65]

14 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Only 0.5 mm on the maroon ones. I think I raised the crimson and cream ones by 1 mm. 

I've raised both the Blood and Custard and the Maroon versions by the about 1 mm - I say approx as its the thickness of the homebase washers I used! I think the ride height hasnt changed between versions - the buffers and couplings of both line up exactly with this modification and in turn with the unadjusted height of the Hornby staniers.

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I've raised both the Blood and Custard and the Maroon versions by the about 1 mm - I say approx as its the thickness of the homebase washers I used! I think the ride height hasnt changed between versions - the buffers and couplings of both line up exactly with this modification and in turn with the unadjusted height of the Hornby staniers.

I'm thinking of adding an extra 0.5mm to my maroon ones but they look OK as they are so no immediate rush.

[rembrow]

On 19/06/2019 at 13:16, robertcwp said:

I'm thinking of adding an extra 0.5mm to my maroon ones but they look OK as they are so no immediate rush.

I've used packers made from 30 thou plasticard, which is .75mm approx in new money. These have bought the roof heights to that of the Hornby corridor Staniers, which is how I want to use them. The buffer height is slightly lower than the Staniers still, but much improved. What I did find were some over tightened bogie securing mounting screws. One had stripped the thread of the pivot and another had caused a pivot to break apart, which required some careful repair work. 

[davidw]

My impression, livery wise is that Hornby Staniers and the portholes in maroon match. Can anyone confirm. I've not actually seen them in the flesh yet.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, rembrow said:

I've used packers made from 30 thou plasticard, which is .75mm approx in new money. These have bought the roof heights to that of the Hornby corridor Staniers, which is how I want to use them. The buffer height is slightly lower than the Staniers still, but much improved. What I did find were some over tightened bogie securing mounting screws. One had stripped the thread of the pivot and another had caused a pivot to break apart, which required some careful repair work. 

 

See the Class 90 thread. Seems to be a problem at the manufacturers with over tightened screws.

 

 

Jason

[Ian J.]

35 minutes ago, davidw said:

My impression, livery wise is that Hornby Staniers and the portholes in maroon match. Can anyone confirm. I've not actually seen them in the flesh yet.

 

Bachmann on left, Hornby on right:

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, davidw said:

My impression, livery wise is that Hornby Staniers and the portholes in maroon match. Can anyone confirm. I've not actually seen them in the flesh yet.

My early and later run staniers by Hornby dont even match...

early have gold numbers, later have cream, but subtly different shades of maroon.

Edited June 20, 2019 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

Later ones should be straw. Gold insignia was abandoned in 1934.

 

1923 to 1934 Gold

1934 to 1946 Yellow

1946 to BR Straw

 

BR reintroduced Yellow in 1948

 

Then it gets complicated. Best looking here.

 

https://www.bloodandcustard.org/

 

 

 

Jason

Edited June 20, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[davidw]

4 hours ago, Ian J. said:

 

Bachmann on left, Hornby on right:

Thanks. That's what I hoped.

[Ian J.]

What's less obvious in the picture, is that the Bachmann has something of a satin finish, while Hornby's is flatter, towards a matt finish.

[davidw]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

What's less obvious in the picture, is that the Bachmann has something of a satin finish, while Hornby's is flatter, towards a matt finish.

Similar to the mk1s?

[Ian J.]

The Bachmann Mark 1 is closer to the Hornby in terms of the final surface finish, IMO, but to the Porthole in terms of colour.

 

Hornby Stanier, Bachmann Porthole, Bachmann Mk1:

[MikeParkin65]

4 hours ago, davidw said:

Similar to the mk1s?

Very similar to the MK1s. Imho the Hornby Staniers blend pretty well although the finish lacks the lustre of the Bachmann version . The photo above does show how low the Bachmanns ride though - they definitetly benefit from the add a washer modification 

[MikeParkin65]

3 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

The Bachmann Mark 1 is closer to the Hornby in terms of the final surface finish, IMO, but to the Porthole in terms of colour.

 

Hornby Stanier, Bachmann Porthole, Bachmann Mk1:

There is also quite a wide spectrum of maroon amongst my Bachmann Mk1's - later ones are nearer the Portholes than earlier though I expect some of my older ones have gradually changed hue through age, light and handling. 

[paul 27]

To add  the  washer do you have to remove the lug on the base which fits into the slot

in the bogie, by adding the washer I would have thought the bogie will not seat properly

as it sits in the recess and the slot so it swivels properly, I wish Bachmann had got the

ride height properly this time seeing as they have supposed to have modified these,

some thing you should not have to mess about with and the Buffer heads look too small,

would never have thought I would put Hornby first in this case.

Edited July 6, 2019 by paul 27

[Zunnan]

I'd side with using a split washer to save on making too much modification, or perhaps slot the washer to fit over the lug. I know its a bit more of a faff, but it keeps reverse engineering possible.

 

I must say the modified bogies on this Maroon release are a huge improvement on the originals, has anyone enquired whether they're available as spare yet for upgrading the first release?

[MikeParkin65]

Removing the small lug is literally a few seconds work with a craft knife and should you want to restore to Bachman’s ride height (no idea why you would) this mod will make no practical difference. 

[paul 27]

BR  57 ft  or 60 ft  maroon livery which were more in use in the 60s.

Edited August 20, 2019 by paul 27

[paul 27]

On ‎15‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 13:22, paul 27 said:

BR  57 ft  or 60 ft  maroon livery which were more in use in the 60s.

Purchased the 57ft second class corridor and second class brake, not sure about the first class corridor were these the least seen.

Edited August 20, 2019 by paul 27

[Zunnan]

On ‎15‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 13:22, paul 27 said:

BR  57 ft  or 60 ft  maroon livery which were more in use in the 60s.

 

Short answer is both lengths were widely used. Composites were always more common on the BR(M), there were more than twice as many Porthole composites built than TK/SK (57ft seconds). The all first class coaches were rare as hens teeth, they were barely built in the double figures (15 corridor firsts built, 14 brake firsts, 19 open first) where as the CK and BTK were built in the multiple hundreds and there were just over a hundred TK/SK. I'd say that for every one corridor second you'll want 2 corridor composites, and unless you're modelling a crack express to ignore the all firsts.

[robertcwp]

7 hours ago, Zunnan said:

 

Short answer is both lengths were widely used. Composites were always more common on the BR(M), there were more than twice as many Porthole composites built than TK/SK (57ft seconds). The all first class coaches were rare as hens teeth, they were barely built in the double figures (15 corridor firsts built, 14 brake firsts, 19 open first) where as the CK and BTK were built in the multiple hundreds and there were just over a hundred TK/SK. I'd say that for every one corridor second you'll want 2 corridor composites, and unless you're modelling a crack express to ignore the all firsts.

I thought it was 15 FK, 15 BFK and 20 FO. 3 of the FKs and one BFK were lost in accidents very early on. A BFK and two FKs went at Weedon and another FK at Harrow. An FO was in the Liverpool and Manchester train at Harrow too but it might have survived.

[Zunnan]

Its probably just my bad maths, I quickly scanned over the old Comet paperwork for running numbers and more than likely missed one off each diagram. But yes, there were a few of the first class vehicles lost very early on which made already really quite rare coaches even rarer long before Maroon arrived.

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 21/08/2019 at 14:46, Zunnan said:

there were more than twice as many Porthole composites built than TK/SK (57ft seconds).

Possibly because the LMS built about 3000 TK / TO between 1930 and nationalisation. Porthole TKs were probably to replace the remaining pre-grouping stock which had soldiered on due to WW2.

[trevor7598]

I think I may have said this before somewhere, but I think Bachmann made a mistake by

only having portholes in the range. They made ' porthole ' a theme and this excluded other

types including the TO, as no porthole TO's were built. But plenty of TO's were built post war.

I am sure a TO would have out sold all of the three of the porthole 'firsts', in their range, put together.

 

I like many others bought a TK, CK and a BTK, but didn't bother with the 1st class vehicles.

As others have said they were very rare, specialist, vehicles.