Bachmann LMS "porthole" coaches

[Robert Stokes]

Thank you for the advice about how it may be possible to correct this fault. However I should not have to do anything to put right an assembly fault on a new one. I'm still going to take it back and ask them to give me another one. I shall also ask them to unpack the fresh one and check that rolls freely on their test track.

[Barry O]

The good lads and lasses in seller do a very good pair of axle pinpoint precision cithing devices which can help

 

BUT why can't Backman fix theor carp bogie design/manufacturers turing processential?  They have  ( along with ride height) been wrong for years. 

Baz 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Barry O

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 hours ago, Barry O said:

The good lads and lasses in seller do a very good pair of axle pinpoint precision cithing devices which can help

 

BUT why can't Backman fix theor carp bogie design/manufacturers turing processential?  They have  ( along with ride height) been wrong for years. 

Baz 

 

Because 99% of buyers aren't bothered, so why mend what isn't broken maybe?

 

Mike.

[Zunnan]

5 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Because 99% of buyers aren't bothered, so why mend what isn't broken maybe?

 

Mike.

 

They did change it though, the second batch has a tie bar added across the coupler end of the bogie to stop it from spreading and dropping the wheelset. Obviously they had feedback that indicated it was enough of a problem to necessitate the design alteration.

[stovepipe]

For those contemplating the recently announced blue and grey versions, I notice a Porthole BSK was in the formation of the Manchester - Southport Steam Excursion of 21 July 1968, as seen in this colour video of Lancashire steam 1964-68. There's also a blue and grey Mk2 in the consist.

 

Skip to 23:30 and again at 28:05.

 

 

[Covkid]

Saw some blue and grey versions on the shelves of my LHS today. A quick look then I saw the price labels and returned them to the shelves.  I think I can call it an epiphany moment and will not be paying 74 quid for a coach, unless I really really want and need it. This is not a grumble or a moan because Bachmann clearly feel justified to charge that much.  

[Compound2632]

In 1972, a Triang-Hornby Mk 1 was priced at £1.25 (+/- 5p). Using the BoE inflation calculator, that's £16.87 at 2020 prices.

 

Putting the Bachmann pothole next to a Triang-Hornby Mk 1, would you say that the quality and detail of the former was worth just over four times that of the old Triang-Hornby model?

[Dunsignalling]

15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

In 1972, a Triang-Hornby Mk 1 was priced at £1.25 (+/- 5p). Using the BoE inflation calculator, that's £16.87 at 2020 prices.

 

Putting the Bachmann pothole next to a Triang-Hornby Mk 1, would you say that the quality and detail of the former was worth just over four times that of the old Triang-Hornby model?

It doesn't really matter whether anybody thinks it's worth it or not.

 

If we want one, that's the price, (subject to any discounts on offer), and as the alternative is to build one, the choice is hold your nose and pay up or do without until you can find one on the table of an ill-informed swapmeet seller. 

 

John 

[Compound2632]

@Covkid, here's another way of looking at it. The Hornby and Hattons 4/6 wheel carriages are, I think, remarkably good value at £30. The porthole is the price of 2.5 of those - so it's a bit more expensive per passenger seat, but then it's got lavatories accessible to all and gangways.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

In 1972, a Triang-Hornby Mk 1 was priced at £1.25 (+/- 5p). Using the BoE inflation calculator, that's £16.87 at 2020 prices.

 

Putting the Bachmann pothole next to a Triang-Hornby Mk 1, would you say that the quality and detail of the former was worth just over four times that of the old Triang-Hornby model?

 

No!

 

CJI.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

No!

 

CJI.

 

Interesting. Why not? 

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Interesting. Why not? 

 

Because I can make perfectly acceptable 'layout' coaches from T-H Mk.1s; I will not pay current Bachmann prices for a coaches; be they Mk.1or Porthole!

 

..... that's the benefit of being a modeller rather than a 'buy it and run it'!

 

CJI.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, Covkid said:

Saw some blue and grey versions on the shelves of my LHS today. A quick look then I saw the price labels and returned them to the shelves.  I think I can call it an epiphany moment and will not be paying 74 quid for a coach, unless I really really want and need it. This is not a grumble or a moan because Bachmann clearly feel justified to charge that much.  

Crimson and cream examples can be had for £30, maroon for £50 (but try finding a Brake 3rd now!). As well as the well publicised price increases I suspect the Blue and Grey are likely to have been produced in smaller numbers than earlier batches as they have quite a narrow window of use if that kind of thing worries a modeller. It’s a market place - Bachmann need to make a profit, I don’t begrudge them that and there is no doubting their commitment to providing quality products to the modelling market fro the past 30 + years 

[Free At Last]

In 2014 a Bachmann Porthole coach was £24, using the inflation calculator that's £27.48 in today's money. 
 

[davidw]

24 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

In 2014 a Bachmann Porthole coach was £24, using the inflation calculator that's £27.48 in today's money. 
 

That sums up the "problem" very well. Far more disposable income is required to purchase far less that what we could in the fairy recent past.

If the disposable income isn't there. Certainly  salaries/pensions/investments haven't performed or risen in a corresponding manner. Then the price of certain items do give me a sharp intake of breath.

Unfortunately, prices are only going one way. Personally it causes me to  appreciate what I've actually got, perhaps that's a good thing......

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by davidw

[Compound2632]

31 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

In 2014 a Bachmann Porthole coach was £24, using the inflation calculator that's £27.48 in today's money. 

 

OK probably the BoE calculator is the wrong one to use. We want the PRoC wage inflation calculator.

 

Another, no doubt equally provoking, way of looking at it is that the porthole is only the price of two Rails iron minks.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Compound2632

[Dunsignalling]

38 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Crimson and cream examples can be had for £30, maroon for £50 (but try finding a Brake 3rd now!). As well as the well publicised price increases I suspect the Blue and Grey are likely to have been produced in smaller numbers than earlier batches as they have quite a narrow window of use if that kind of thing worries a modeller. It’s a market place - Bachmann need to make a profit, I don’t begrudge them that and there is no doubting their commitment to providing quality products to the modelling market fro the past 30 + years 

I fear that £74 is going to be normal for new Bachmann coaches, at least until it gets to be more than £74.

 

AIUI, the blue/grey Portholes were made in relatively small numbers (and not all types) so they will probably fetch more than that second-hand within the next year or two.

 

£70-to-£80 is certainly the ballpark figure I'm expecting to pay for my pre-ordered Bulleids when they eventually emerge.

 

Could I build equivalents from kits for less? Yes, but I find metal coach kits hard going and difficult to make to a consistent standard so I know they wouldn't look anything like as good. 

 

I'll put up with it for the few I need to fill gaps, but I'll not be replacing the old ones I've worked over, which I probably would do were they at Hornby-ish prices. So, no more than five at £75 each against about twenty if they'd been £50 a go.... 

 

John

Edited August 6, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[flockandroll]

It would appear that from 2014 to 2021 minimum wage in the PRC increased by about 40% (though I hope the people who make these models are on more than minimum wage). [https://tradingeconomics.com/china/minimum-wages] 

140% of £24 would be £33.60 This does not include the effect of currency exchange rates. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by flockandroll
add link and correct spelling

[Andy W]

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, the blue/grey Portholes were made in relatively small numbers (and not all types) so they will probably fetch more than that second-hand within the next year or two.

 

 

Well of course only a very limited number of porthole coaches ever gained blue/grey livery on the real railway compared to the total built, and not all types ever got the repaint, predominately brake 2nds (by then). Memory, and earlier posts on this thread, suggest that the repainted ones were captive to the southern part of the WCML because they'd also received a conversion to electric heating. So it isn't surprising that Bachmann only produced a small run, there aren't that many people who model the WCML south of Manchester/Liverpool set in the late 1960s.

[Barry O]

17 minutes ago, Andy W said:

Well of course only a very limited number of porthole coaches ever gained blue/grey livery on the real railway compared to the total built, and not all types ever got the repaint, predominately brake 2nds (by then). Memory, and earlier posts on this thread, suggest that the repainted ones were captive to the southern part of the WCML because they'd also received a conversion to electric heating. So it isn't surprising that Bachmann only produced a small run, there aren't that many people who model the WCML south of Manchester/Liverpool set in the late 1960s.

They did travel up and down Shap in inter regional trains. Hence I built and painted a BSK and a CK for use on Shap in its 1967 mode. I have managed  to produce items which are fine for layout use, at a much lower price.

 

Baz

[tractionman]

3 hours ago, Andy W said:

Well of course only a very limited number of porthole coaches ever gained blue/grey livery on the real railway compared to the total built, and not all types ever got the repaint, predominately brake 2nds (by then). Memory, and earlier posts on this thread, suggest that the repainted ones were captive to the southern part of the WCML because they'd also received a conversion to electric heating. So it isn't surprising that Bachmann only produced a small run, there aren't that many people who model the WCML south of Manchester/Liverpool set in the late 1960s.

 

Thanks for the inf, so really just 1965-68 for the Blue Grey liveried porthole stock, or were any still in BR service in this livery post 68? If so for how long?

 

All the best,

 

Keith

[Zunnan]

10 hours ago, Andy W said:

Well of course only a very limited number of porthole coaches ever gained blue/grey livery on the real railway compared to the total built, and not all types ever got the repaint, predominately brake 2nds (by then). Memory, and earlier posts on this thread, suggest that the repainted ones were captive to the southern part of the WCML because they'd also received a conversion to electric heating. So it isn't surprising that Bachmann only produced a small run, there aren't that many people who model the WCML south of Manchester/Liverpool set in the late 1960s.

 

They weren't just a WCML phenomenon, although that is what birthed them. After more stock for the WCML came on stream to displace them they weren't uncommon on Blackpool services and plenty of other routes, plenty of photos and video footage of them behind steam and diesel in the Northwest for about as long as Maroon Mk1s remained. Pretty much any Northwest layout based on '66-'70 could justify a B/G Porthole BSKs or to a lesser extent the much rarer SK; or the unique CK M24635M if you fancy a repaint.

 

7 hours ago, tractionman said:

 

Thanks for the inf, so really just 1965-68 for the Blue Grey liveried porthole stock, or were any still in BR service in this livery post 68? If so for how long?

 

All the best,

 

Keith

 

One of the SKs (M13167M) was photographed at Preston in late 1969, but whether it had been laid up since 1968 is anyones guess...and the solitary Blue/Grey Porthole CK was still floating around and seen at Wolverton in decent condition in 1970, so its probable the last of the BSKs went around then. I doubt they survived in service past 1970. The sleepers were the last passenger carrying LMS coaches to go in the early '70s and the BGs lasted to the early '80s with a few limited to serving as tool and stores vans lasting a while longer.

[tractionman]

Thanks very much @Zunnanfor that information and reply, interesting stuff.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

[andyman7]

21 hours ago, Free At Last said:

In 2014 a Bachmann Porthole coach was £24, using the inflation calculator that's £27.48 in today's money. 
 

They were advertised at this price prior to issue by retailers who anticipated the price but when they appeared they were much more expensive. Look back to the beginning of this thread if you dare - it begins in 2011, with an entry stating that they are expected 'by October next year [2012]'.
Scroll forward to page 7 and beyond and you will see that they did not actually appear until 2014 by which time the actual price from Bachmann was much higher - certainly after discount the initial sale price was around £33 for 'walk-up' customers. Some dealers did not honour the pre-order prices whilst others did and took the hit. So the only people that got them for £24 were as a result of the dealer effectively subsidising the release.

[Bernard Lamb]

On 06/08/2021 at 21:38, Free At Last said:

In 2014 a Bachmann Porthole coach was £24, using the inflation calculator that's £27.48 in today's money. 
 

The slight flaw in that line of reasoning is that model railway items AFAIK do not appear in the list of items that are included in the calculations.

Look on the bright side.

They would be a heck of a lot more if they were made in the UK.

Our hobby is a niche market and as such is very much subject to changes in the world economy.

Bernard