coachmann Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 The LMS produced a variety of open coaches especially under Stanier: The LMS D1915 7½ bay open third from my range. .... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) I'd never noticed until I built a GW carriage, but there's a definite consistency in style. Edited July 12, 2018 by jwealleans 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I'd never noticed until I built a GW carriage, but there's a definite consistency in style. There wan't really though. The GWR and LMS sliding vent windows looked similar but that was all. Whereas the LMS stuck with 4' wide windows on the same waistline post 1933 line (apart from welded floor brake thirds and artics), the GWR never really made up its mind, hence the untidy waistlines observed in its trains. Coaches with sliding vent window on the compartment side often had odd shaped solid windows on the corridor side. I recently produced a corridor brake third where the windows were three different heights from the gutter and on two distinctly different levels at the waist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 The LMS produced a variety of open coaches especially under Stanier: The LMS D1915 7½ bay open third from my range. .... WEB D1915 b&c bb bogies.jpg Very nice work Larry. I am very late to this thread and others which relate to ex-LMS and BR Porthole coaches, but if anyone knows of a source for a Bachmann 39-450 corridor 3rd, who would sell it and post it to NZ I'd be most grateful. At a peanut price of course 39-450 is the number stuck in my poor brain... I found one for sale on Ebay but UK only in bold letters. The photos I have seen suggest to me that weathered versions aren't too bad, either. (no corridor 3rds produced by Bachmann, of course, though). The subject of porthole coaches has been an interesting read in this thread and elsewhere, I had never really realised how central they were to 1950s BR trains. How can I have been so dumb? No, don't answer that. I was surprised that 39-450 is almost extinct in the second-hand market. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Very nice work Larry. I am very late to this thread and others which relate to ex-LMS and BR Porthole coaches, but if anyone knows of a source for a Bachmann 39-450 corridor 3rd, who would sell it and post it to NZ I'd be most grateful. At a peanut price of course 39-450 is the number stuck in my poor brain... I found one for sale on Ebay but UK only in bold letters. The photos I have seen suggest to me that weathered versions aren't too bad, either. (no corridor 3rds produced by Bachmann, of course, though). The subject of porthole coaches has been an interesting read in this thread and elsewhere, I had never really realised how central they were to 1950s BR trains. How can I have been so dumb? No, don't answer that. I was surprised that 39-450 is almost extinct in the second-hand market. cheers Its been the case that manufactures never learn, they produce the same number of 1st/2nd/3rd/brake variety of coaches in each production run and wonder why only the 2nd/3rd class sell out and they are left with unsold others. The re-released weathered ones were the unsold originals treated to weathering in an attempt to sell the unsold ones hence no 3rds. The corridor 3rds along with the others are being released in BR Maroon (2nds) later this year (hopefully) so may be a good idea to pre order the number you want as I can see the corridor 2nds being in short supply! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Yes. But I see (from Hatton's website) that estimated delivery has now slipped from July (as it was this January) to November/December 2018. Oh well. More time to save up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) I would beware of weathered coaches. RTR manufactures go for the easy spray over the lower part of the body, but it would be better if they weathered the chassis and bogies before clipping them to the bodies. Real coach bodies were regularly cleaned so that only the underframes carried the usual road dusting of rust while the roofs took on a dark greyish-brown colouring. The body sides took on a semi-gloss to satin finish, but for some reason the bodies on Western Region coaches soon went matt and chalky looking as if the cleaning detergent had taken the life out of the paint. Edited May 21, 2018 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I would beware of weathered coaches. RTR manufactures go for the easy spray over the lower part of the body, but it would be better if they weathered the chassis and bogies before clipping them to the bodies. Real coach bodies were regularly cleaned so that only the underframes carried the usual road dusting of rust while the roofs took on a dark greyish-brown colouring. The body sides took on a semi-gloss to satin finish, but for some reason the bodies on Western Region coaches soon went matt and chalky looking as if the cleaning detergent had taken the life out of the paint. Larry, Have a look at some photos of WR hydraulics in their latter days - I don't know what the WR used for coach cleaning, but it must have been closely related to Modelstrip !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) Larry, Have a look at some photos of WR hydraulics in their latter days - I don't know what the WR used for coach cleaning, but it must have been closely related to Modelstrip !! Regards, John Isherwood. Exmover, the same as everyone else... Problem was that unlike the other regions the Western at some wash plants were not permitted by the local water/drainage authorities to neutralise it (I think it was dilute bicarbonate of soda ours used) before the rinse section and although it was rinsed off by plain water it still left a fair bit of the extremely caustic Exmover in place. You can guess the rest... I forget which but one depots Wash Plant was particularly worse than others. Edited May 21, 2018 by Bob Reid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted May 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2018 Exmover, the same as everyone else... Problem was that unlike the other regions the Western at some wash plants were not permitted by the local water/drainage authorities to neutralise it (I think it was dilute bicarbonate of soda ours used) before the rinse section and although it was rinsed off by plain water it still left a fair bit of the extremely caustic Exmover in place. You can guess the rest... I forget which but one depots Wash Plant was particularly worse than others. As you will recall Bob, Exmover was/is, essentially, oxalic acid. Part of the problem was that if you drove through the rinse too quickly, traces of the Exmover remained. A number of SR EMU depots were notorious for this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) As you will recall Bob, Exmover was/is, essentially, oxalic acid. Part of the problem was that if you drove through the rinse too quickly, traces of the Exmover remained. A number of SR EMU depots were notorious for this. No amount of radar speed checks and scientific services checking the dilution solved it (perhaps the measure of four bags of Exmover to a tank of water - and one for the pot helped) Edited May 21, 2018 by Bob Reid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted May 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2018 No amount of radar speed checks and scientific services checking the dilution solved it (perhaps the measure of four bags of Exmover to a tank of water - and one for the pot helped) Right enough Bob - but the immutable laws of physics (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle) and of work study meant that what happened when the men from HQ were watching was very different from when they weren't! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I wonder if the men manning the manual coach washing sidings outside Manchester victoria and other locations used a powerful detergent. It is likely the local branchline terminus staff didnt when they were hosing down coaches during a layover. Although real locos and coaches were painted with gloss paint, we all realise glossy painted models do not look well on a scenic layout. As an aside, I finished nearly all the coaches in gloss for Lawrence Scale Models because that was the spec. At least they look as good today as when they were turned out, the earliest in 1974. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 whatever happened to these....? Hattons pic, an age ago. UKP123 sigh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 whatever happened to these....? Hattons pic, an age ago. UKP123 sigh I know what happened to half a dozen of them. They make up a train with a disproportionate amount of first-class accommodation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted May 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2018 whatever happened to these....? Hattons pic, an age ago. UKP123 39-450_1032943_Qty4_1_porthole_lms_BR.jpg sigh I bought a 9 coach train of portholes when released, including the 4 pack special offer from Hattons, got to admit they are amongst my favourite coaches. Here’s a few here blended in with some mk1’s.https://youtu.be/zNSvnaM5wnE 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Were there any restaurant cars attached to the open firsts in the days when Porthole coaches were common? I clearly need to do some reading! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted May 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Were there any restaurant cars attached to the open firsts in the days when Porthole coaches were common? I clearly need to do some reading! The best rtr match I have is Hornbys 12 wheel dining car. Slightly different shade. It nonetheless is fine. Edited May 26, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 The only other coach suitable RTR would be a BR Mark One RU (Restaurant Unclassified) from Bachmann. If it was mid 1950s onward. Alas it's one thing that is missing from the RTR ranges are decent catering vehicles. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Its been the case that manufactures never learn, they produce the same number of 1st/2nd/3rd/brake variety of coaches in each production run and wonder why only the 2nd/3rd class sell out and they are left with unsold others. The re-released weathered ones were the unsold originals treated to weathering in an attempt to sell the unsold ones hence no 3rds. The corridor 3rds along with the others are being released in BR Maroon (2nds) later this year (hopefully) so may be a good idea to pre order the number you want as I can see the corridor 2nds being in short supply! Well yes !!!! I would like just a couple of maroon thirds and maybe a first or composite to augment a maroon Mk1 rake as required. Certainly don't intend to purchase a brake end. Wonder how many others have similar intentions. Bachmann would do well to at least double if not triple the quantity of thirds compared to firsts and brakevans in my view. I asked the Bachmann gentlemen at DEMU yesterday about maroon "portholes" and got the answer "November to January". Similarly I am seeking a single Bachmann maroon Thompson to augment a rake of maroon Mk1s but won't be needing a brake vehicle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 It's worth keeping in mind the number of each type of 'porthole' built: 15 FK - three of which were written off in accidents when almost new (two at Weedon, one at Harrow) 15 BFKs - one written off when almost new (Weedon) 20 FOs 100 TKs, later SKs - note the all third/second was not built in huge numbers 240 CKs 439 BTKs, later BSKs - by far the most common 'porthole' type Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I wonder if the men manning the manual coach washing sidings outside Manchester victoria and other locations used a powerful detergent. It is likely the local branchline terminus staff didnt when they were hosing down coaches during a layover. Although real locos and coaches were painted with gloss paint, we all realise glossy painted models do not look well on a scenic layout. As an aside, I finished nearly all the coaches in gloss for Lawrence Scale Models because that was the spec. At least they look as good today as when they were turned out, the earliest in 1974. They do indeed, Larry. This trio of Lawrence/Goddard LMS Staniers came my way quite recently. The cars had suffered some damage, and two had no bogies. I repaired them and made appropriate bogies. I'm absolutely delighted with them. Regards, Tony. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 It's worth keeping in mind the number of each type of 'porthole' built: 15 FK - three of which were written off in accidents when almost new (two at Weedon, one at Harrow) 15 BFKs - one written off when almost new (Weedon) 20 FOs 100 TKs, later SKs - note the all third/second was not built in huge numbers 240 CKs 439 BTKs, later BSKs - by far the most common 'porthole' type Presumably only 100 TK/SKs because 701 of the previous design, D2119, were built between 1946 and 1950. D2119 was, I believe, the most numerous LMS design coach built. Chris KT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) Larry Goddard three-set.jpg They do indeed, Larry. This trio of Lawrence/Goddard LMS Staniers came my way quite recently. The cars had suffered some damage, and two had no bogies. I repaired them and made appropriate bogies. I'm absolutely delighted with them. Regards, Tony. Hi Tony, Thanks. I wonder how many thousands are out there.....I painted 280 4mm coaches in one year alone on top of numerous 4mm and 7mm locos. Edited June 7, 2018 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Model Store Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) BR Maroon now in stock - Why wait ? Order today! https://www.agrmodelrailwaystore.co.uk/index.php?route=product/search&search=PORTHOLE Edited June 5, 2019 by AGR Model Store 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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