Mod6 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Two very similar topics merged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 You can see the difference in profile between the porthole CK and a regular LMS carriage here: 45569_Harrow_1952 by robertcwp, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Here is a closer view, showing some of the differences betweek CK, FK and BTK: 45569_Harrow_1952_crop by robertcwp, on Flickr And here is a CK in unbranded LMS livery (this is a very small part of a 35mm negative): 46201_WeaverJct_1949_crop by robertcwp, on Flickr Edited March 31, 2013 by robertcwp 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I thought this was interesting as the second coach is not lined. 155 60532 dep Chester General for Hooton by edgehillsignalman, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim49 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Smashing photo Michael. By the rowdy look of the passengers, the coach may be missing a lot more than the lining by the time it reaches its destination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Roberts picture in post #53 also clearly shows a brake third (third vehicle) with its lower coach side and lower window line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tim Hall Posted January 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2013 Emails received from a Liverpool box shifter yesterday suggest June/ July 2013 delivery Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes, but when asked about the Bachmann Twin they claimed to have no information. Could it be that their Dapol version is not selling as well as they hoped and may well sell even fewer as we come closer to the Bachmann release? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes, but when asked about the Bachmann Twin they claimed to have no information. Could it be that their Dapol version is not selling as well as they hoped and may well sell even fewer as we come closer to the Bachmann release? What has this to do with porthole coaches? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) What has this to do with porthole coaches? Not a lot! But then many threads/comments seem to have little to do with the subject of railways in general and I didn't know where else to pose my question although the connection between a Twin and Porthole coaches could lie in the train formation. Edited January 21, 2013 by manxman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Not a lot! But then many threads/comments seem to have little to do with the subject of railways in general and I didn't know where else to pose my question although the connection between a Twin and Porthole coaches could lie in the train formation. If you consider the spectrum of threads in the different sections I think, apart from Wheeltappers, you will find most relevant to some aspect of railways and modelling. Some admitedly stray on ocassion away from the main topic, but usually have some relevance to it. I see that you have been a member since 1 May 2009 but presumably you have not been regularly following things or actively posting in that time. Might I suggest that if you cannot, by searching first, find a thread which covers the interest or question you have then you start a new one with your query. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 No definately Bachmann 39-450 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 3rd BR Crimson & Cream 39-455 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 1st BR Crimson & Cream 39-460 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 3rd BR Crimson & Cream 39-465 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Composite BR Crimson & Cream 39-470 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 1st BR Crimson & Cream 39-475 LMS 60 ft Porthole Open Vestibule BR Crimson & Cream Email from Hattons yesterday to say that 39-475 will now be an FO and not a T(S)O. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) Email from Hattons yesterday to say that 39-475 will now be an FO and not a T(S)O. Not suprising as there was only one 'Porthole' open design, this being the D2160 First Class Open. I hope Bachmann are doing their homework as, taking all the variations, the LMS design 'Porthole' coaches were anything but standard and must be proving a nightmare for the manufacturer. To summarise: - The 39-460 57ft Brake Third... should have deeper eaves panel and deeper sides that overlap the solebars. The 39-465 60ft Composite... should have a different end and roof profile. The 39-475 60ft Open First... should have non-standard roof vents except over lavs. (according to one official photo). Edited March 27, 2013 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Hi All Am I correct, despite the thread title, that none of these coaches appeared in LMS livery, they were all post nationalisation coaches? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Looks like I will need to spend an hour or two with Jenkinson & Essery Vol II to see exactly what Bachmann might be producing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) 39-450 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 3rd.................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 39-455 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 1st..................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 39-460 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 3rd.......Built 1949-51 Believed all blood & custard from new. 39-465 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Composite.....Built 1949-50. First Lot LMS livery (BR insignia LH end). Remainder blood & custard.39-470 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 1st........Built 1949 all blood & custard from new. 39-475 LMS 60 ft Porthole Open Vestibule 1st......Built 1949, blood & custard from new. Information 'LMS Standard Coaching Stock II' by Jenkinson & Essery (OPC 1994) Edited March 27, 2013 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbeagleowner Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) Really looking forward to these and the pictures on the model rail Facebook page look great. Just wondering why the ck's were a different profile? Edited March 27, 2013 by cbeagleowner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 so to be a bit pedantic, should they be called LMS coaches as per the thread title? maybe something like LMS designed but BR built? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbeagleowner Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Is it that the designer gets the credit? Like Pep A1's were all BR built but are referred to as LNER pacifics? I guess there is also the fact it's a direct descendent of a Stanier LMS design (though I see that could also be applied back the other way - LMS Standard 2s' Just my musings... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 39-450 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 3rd.................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 39-455 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 1st..................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 39-460 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 3rd.......Built 1949-51 Believed all blood & custard from new. 39-465 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Composite.....Built 1949-50. First Lot LMS livery (BR insignia LH end). Remainder blood & custard. 39-470 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 1st........Built 1949 all blood & custard from new. 39-475 LMS 60 ft Porthole Open Vestibule 1st......Built 1949, blood & custard from new. Information 'LMS Standard Coaching Stock II' by Jenkinson & Essery (OPC 1994) Just to add to this, and thanks to Larry for prompting me to consult my copy of this book (should have done before!) it is interesting to note that Bachmann are producing all six diagrams of porthole coach. It is also interesting to note how many there were of each type, and not surprisingly there is a wide range: D2159 CK - 240 in 3 lots D2160 FO - 20 D2161 BTK - 439 (!) in 6 lots D2162 FK - 15 D2168 BFK - 15 D2170 TK - 100 Now I'm not an expert on LMS coaches, but I am interested in a rake of these for an excursion to the Sunny South with probably a Black 5 or Jubilee on the front. If anyone has some typical formations of such trains I would be pleased to know. Would trains of all porthole stock exist or would they be mixed and matched with other (often very similar) Period III coaches or even older examples? This would be for the mid-late 1950s. Were there any detailed variations between lots for the CKs and BTKs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 It certainly makes the range 'first heavy'! Like many others, I'm looking forward to these vehicles, but can't help but wonder that the preponderance of firsts may lead to an oversupply of them, whilst the thirds, (seconds), will sell superquickly. cheers, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 'Porthole' coaches were the new boys on the block and were to be seen in the best LM Region trains right from the word go, a position they retained for quite some time as can be seen from their losses in express train accidents. Not likely to find them in excursions though, as the London Midland had a lot of prewar coaches it could call on for mundane duties. The Eastern Region followed much the same pattern keeping its Gresley and Thompson coaches on front-line duties for as long as it could. It may be hard to swallow now, but BR MK. coaches in no way matched the comfort of LMS and LNER carraiges and were a step backward in the 1950s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2013 'Porthole' coaches were the new boys on the block and were to be seen in the best LM Region trains right from the word go, a position they retained for quite some time as can be seen from their losses in express train accidents. Not likely to find them in excursions though, as the London Midland had a lot of prewar coaches it could call on for mundane duties. The Eastern Region followed much the same pattern keeping its Gresley and Thompson coaches on front-line duties for as long as it could. It may be hard to swallow now, but BR MK. coaches in no way matched the comfort of LMS and LNER carraiges and were a step backward in the 1950s. In fact a few BSKs in particular made it into Blue and Grey and were used in Euston-Birmingham-Manchester/Liverpool services in 1967 due to shortage of MK1/Mk2 brake ends Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Would trains of all porthole stock exist or would they be mixed and matched with other (often very similar) Period III coaches or even older examples? This would be for the mid-late 1950s. There were no porthole catering vehicles as far as i know so no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 There were no porthole catering vehicles as far as i know so no. Correct. Rakes of Porthole stock were not likely to have been seen very frequently, if at all. They were used in mixed rakes with other pre-war Period 3 and the post-war stock, and even BR mark 1s. Older Period 1 and 2 stock also put in appearances into the very early 1960s but were mainly confined to excursion sets and used as strengtheners in summer. Study of photographs in the many picture albums covering the period provides a useful way of learning about how sets were made up. Also the BRCoachingStock Yahoo group http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BRCoachingStock/?yguid=152282886 offers a good many Carriage Working Diagrams. You can see which trains were made up from pre-BR standard (Mark 1) stock in those. It's a good bet that the Portholes would have featured. I hope that the production of BSKs, CKs and SKs will be in the ratio of at least 5:1 compared to the first class coaches, otherwise retailers are going to have a lot of the latter sitting on their shelves, as continues to be the case with Hornby 'whore's boudoir' first class LMS Period 3 stock. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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