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Bachmann LMS "porthole" coaches


edward66
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  • 4 weeks later...

Yes, but when asked about the Bachmann Twin they claimed to have no information.  Could it be that their Dapol version is not selling as well as they hoped and may well sell even fewer as we come closer to the Bachmann release?

 

:scratchhead: What has this to do with porthole coaches?

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:scratchhead: What has this to do with porthole coaches?

Not a lot!

But then many threads/comments seem to have little to do with the subject of railways in general and I didn't know where else to pose my question although the connection between a Twin and Porthole coaches could lie in the train formation.

 

Edited by manxman
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Not a lot!

But then many threads/comments seem to have little to do with the subject of railways in general and I didn't know where else to pose my question although the connection between a Twin and Porthole coaches could lie in the train formation.

If you consider the spectrum of threads in the different sections I think, apart from Wheeltappers, you will find most relevant to some aspect of railways and modelling.  Some admitedly stray on ocassion away from the main topic, but usually have some relevance to it.

 

I see that you have been a member since 1 May 2009 but presumably you have not been regularly following things or actively posting in that time.  Might I suggest that if you cannot, by searching first, find a thread which covers the interest or question you have then you start a new one with your query.

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  • 2 months later...

No definately Bachmann

39-450 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 3rd BR Crimson & Cream

39-455 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 1st BR Crimson & Cream

39-460 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 3rd BR Crimson & Cream

39-465 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Composite BR Crimson & Cream

39-470 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 1st BR Crimson & Cream

39-475 LMS 60 ft Porthole Open Vestibule BR Crimson & Cream

 

Email from Hattons yesterday to say that 39-475 will now be an FO and not a T(S)O.

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Email from Hattons yesterday to say that 39-475 will now be an FO and not a T(S)O.

Not suprising as there was only one 'Porthole' open design, this being the D2160 First Class Open. I hope Bachmann are doing their homework as, taking all the variations, the LMS design 'Porthole' coaches were anything but standard and must be proving a nightmare for the manufacturer. To summarise: -

 

The 39-460 57ft Brake Third... should have deeper eaves panel and deeper sides that overlap the solebars.

The 39-465 60ft Composite... should have a different end and roof profile.

The 39-475 60ft Open First... should have non-standard roof vents except over lavs. (according to one official photo).

Edited by coachmann
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39-450 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 3rd.................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 
39-455 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 1st..................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 
39-460 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 3rd.......Built 1949-51 Believed all blood & custard from new. 
39-465 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Composite.....Built 1949-50. First Lot LMS livery (BR insignia LH end). Remainder blood & custard.
39-470 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 1st........Built 1949 all blood & custard from new. 
39-475 LMS 60 ft Porthole Open Vestibule 1st......Built 1949, blood & custard from new. 

 

Information 'LMS Standard Coaching Stock II' by Jenkinson & Essery (OPC 1994)

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Is it that the designer gets the credit? Like Pep A1's were all BR built but are referred to as LNER pacifics? I guess there is also the fact it's a direct descendent of a Stanier LMS design (though I see that could also be applied back the other way - LMS Standard 2s'

 

Just my musings...

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39-450 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 3rd.................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 

39-455 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor 1st..................Built 1950 blood & custard from new. 

39-460 LMS 57 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 3rd.......Built 1949-51 Believed all blood & custard from new. 

39-465 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Composite.....Built 1949-50. First Lot LMS livery (BR insignia LH end). Remainder blood & custard.

39-470 LMS 60 ft Porthole Corridor Brake 1st........Built 1949 all blood & custard from new. 

39-475 LMS 60 ft Porthole Open Vestibule 1st......Built 1949, blood & custard from new. 

 

Information 'LMS Standard Coaching Stock II' by Jenkinson & Essery (OPC 1994)

 

Just to add to this, and thanks to Larry for prompting me to consult my copy of this book (should have done before!) it is interesting to note that Bachmann are producing all six diagrams of porthole coach.  It is also interesting to note how many there were of each type, and not surprisingly there is a wide range:

 

D2159 CK - 240 in 3 lots

D2160 FO - 20

D2161 BTK - 439 (!) in 6 lots

D2162 FK - 15

D2168 BFK - 15

D2170 TK - 100

 

Now I'm not an expert on LMS coaches, but I am interested in a rake of these for an excursion to the Sunny South with probably a Black 5 or Jubilee on the front.  If anyone has some typical formations of such trains I would be pleased to know.  Would trains of all porthole stock exist or would they be mixed and matched with other (often very similar) Period III coaches or even older examples?  This would be for the mid-late 1950s.

 

Were there any detailed variations between lots for the CKs and BTKs?

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It certainly makes the range 'first heavy'! Like many others, I'm looking forward to these vehicles, but can't help but wonder that the preponderance of firsts may lead to an oversupply of them, whilst the thirds, (seconds), will sell superquickly.

cheers,

Peter C.

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'Porthole' coaches were the new boys on the block and were to be seen in the best LM Region trains right from the word go, a position they retained for quite some time as can be seen from their losses in express train accidents. Not likely to find them in excursions though, as the London Midland had a lot of prewar coaches it could call on for mundane duties.

 

The Eastern Region followed much the same pattern keeping its Gresley and Thompson coaches on front-line duties for as long as it could. It may be hard to swallow now, but BR MK. coaches in no way matched the comfort of LMS and LNER carraiges and were a step backward in the 1950s.

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'Porthole' coaches were the new boys on the block and were to be seen in the best LM Region trains right from the word go, a position they retained for quite some time as can be seen from their losses in express train accidents. Not likely to find them in excursions though, as the London Midland had a lot of prewar coaches it could call on for mundane duties.

 

The Eastern Region followed much the same pattern keeping its Gresley and Thompson coaches on front-line duties for as long as it could. It may be hard to swallow now, but BR MK. coaches in no way matched the comfort of LMS and LNER carraiges and were a step backward in the 1950s.

In fact a few BSKs in particular made it into Blue and Grey and were used in Euston-Birmingham-Manchester/Liverpool services in 1967 due to shortage of MK1/Mk2 brake ends

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Would trains of all porthole stock exist or would they be mixed and matched with other (often very similar) Period III coaches or even older examples?  This would be for the mid-late 1950s.

 

There were no porthole catering vehicles as far as i know so no.

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There were no porthole catering vehicles as far as i know so no.

 

Correct.

 

Rakes of Porthole stock were not likely to have been seen very frequently, if at all. They were used in mixed rakes with other pre-war Period 3 and the post-war stock, and even BR mark 1s. Older Period 1 and 2 stock also put in appearances into the very early 1960s but were mainly confined to excursion sets and used as strengtheners in summer. 

 

Study of photographs in the many picture albums covering the period provides a useful way of learning about how sets were made up. Also the BRCoachingStock Yahoo group http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BRCoachingStock/?yguid=152282886 offers a good many Carriage Working Diagrams. You can see which trains were made up from pre-BR standard (Mark 1) stock in those. It's a good bet that the Portholes would have featured.

 

I hope that the production of BSKs, CKs and SKs will be in the ratio of at least 5:1 compared to the first class coaches, otherwise retailers are going to have a lot of the latter sitting on their shelves, as continues to be the case with Hornby 'whore's boudoir' first class LMS Period 3 stock.

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