10800 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Thanks for that Leander (and Coachmann), I've now joined that Yahoo group to do a bit more research! As you say photos are the main source and I'll need to revisit my books of the Brighton main line and summer excursions to Brighton, Eastbourne etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I saw the carmine & cream pre-production samples in the Bachmann display cases at York today and was very impressed. All types were present and correct except for the BTK/BSK. At first sight, and remember this was without getting my hands on them, they look to be the proverbial 'dog's danglies'. Coach will be relieved to learn that it looks as if Bachmann have got the idiosyncrasies of the CK right. The roof shape and tumbleholme look to be correctly profiled for this type of coach, whilst the other three types present (BFK, FK and TK/SK) have a profile more like the Stanier period 3 stock. Not only that, they look more pleasing to the eye than Hornby's efforts, and at two-thirds the price I don't know what there's not to like! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Hi All Am I correct, despite the thread title, that none of these coaches appeared in LMS livery, they were all post nationalisation coaches? Ian All appeared post-nationalisation but at least the first few CKs appeared in unbranded LMS livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 There were no porthole catering vehicles as far as i know so no. Correct. In fact there were I believe no post-war catering vehicles of LMS design other than conversions or rebuilds. However, the porthole FO vehicles would have been used for dining accommodation much of the time, often adjoining an RK with an open third also used for dining on the other side. The LMS, and BR (LMR) did not generally brand open stock used for dining as restaurant cars, apart from the token few Mark I RFO and RSO vehicles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) All appeared post-nationalisation but at least the first few CKs appeared in unbranded LMS livery. See post #66 Edited March 30, 2013 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 See post #66 Yes, sorry, missed that one. Do you think all of the first batch of CKs were in LMS livery without the LMS branding? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yes, sorry, missed that one. Do you think all of the first batch of CKs were in LMS livery without the LMS branding? According to Jenkinson & Essery, LMS livery (with BR branding) on Lot 1499, consisting of 75 vehicles built at Derby in 1949, Nos. 24500 - 24574. BR (carmine & cream) on the remainder. Good news from Leander that the CK will have correct end profile. Fingers crossed now that the 'Porthole' brake third has the deeper cantrail and sides overlapping floor with lower window line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) According to Jenkinson & Essery, LMS livery (with BR branding) on Lot 1499, consisting of 75 vehicles built at Derby in 1949, Nos. 24500 - 24574. BR (carmine & cream) on the remainder. Good news from Leander that the CK will have correct end profile. Fingers crossed now that the 'Porthole' brake third has the deeper cantrail and sides overlapping floor with lower window line. Thanks, I was wondering if there was any hard evidence from photos. I have seen one or two photos of lower numbered ones in unbranded LMS livery with the number in LMS style, but not beyond the first 25 or so. The unpainted sample I saw of one of the brakes appeared to have the sides quite deep but the windows looked to be the same height as on the non-brake vehicles. This appeared to be the case with the BFK on display at Alexandra Palace but there was no brake third there. I had a close look at the CK on display and it is clearly a different shape and the roof appears to be the 'Mark I' profile, which I believe actually originated with the LMS-designed porthole CK. Some images from Alexandra Palace: BFK on the left, then TK, then CK then FK: CK end view: BFK and TK: TK and CK: Edited March 31, 2013 by robertcwp 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Pics have been added to the products list on Bachmanns website of what appears to be the decorated models. At first glance the BTK appears to have deeper sides as the lower bodyside looks like it rests on the footboards. At a second glance though it looks to me like the footboards are higher up on the solebar in relation to the buffers, and I can't really make out an overlap in the lower bodyside due to the small size of the images. It does look to me like the windows are seated at the same height as those of the rest of the range, the upper lining of the livery appears to be the same proportionally. I guess it'll look neater in a rake of them... On the whole though, even if the BTK has the same bodyside proportions as the rest (CK excluded), I still can't wait for these to arrive. And with a bit of luck, a hopeful excess of 60' first class opens/brakes will wing their way into bargain bins for some Comet sided butchery to get some P3 CKs and BCKs. Edited March 31, 2013 by Zunnan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Only the LMS corridor brake thirds exibited the lower positioned bodysides, a feature introduced with the D1968 in 1937 with the welding of bodysides to the floor. However the nine year span of this diagram caused there to be some variations and at least some of the D1968's built by Wolverton in 1939 (Lot 1192) had conventional bodies. Just as a reminder, mounting the bodyside below floor level caused the windows to be lower than on other coaches, and as a consequence the eaves panel had to be deeper from the window top to the gutter. Fingers crossed that Bachmann is still working on the Brake Third seeing as it is not amongst those on display. Edited March 31, 2013 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Hi all, I saw these at York Yesterday, totally stunning, my only hope is that they do the Brake Third justice so we can have the typical BK,CK,BK set that Hornby have failed to do..... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 couple of nice shots of a grubby composite in 1968 http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/Former-LMS-Lines/21337479_kMkRcw#!i=1711323144&k=GFqnXtQ&lb=1&s=A http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/Former-LMS-Lines/21337479_kMkRcw#!i=1711323575&k=LHQ8ntq&lb=1&s=A 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Like others have said on here, saw them at York yesterday and thought they were Superb. Its just a shame there in 4mm Scale and not 7mm as they should be!!. Frantically running for cover, well hobbling anyway. Regards, Derek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrobuscp Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I see these are now on the Bachmann website as expected within the next 60 days. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Anyone know how the NEM pockets are mounted - fixed on bogies, pivoted, close-coupling mechanics incorrectly positioned like their Mk.1s or close-coupling mechanics correctly positioned? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Looking at the photos in post #83 I see what appears to be an NEM pocket with a straight shank tension lock coupler, there also appears to be a gap between the NEM pocket and any material that could be a part of the bogie so one would assume that a close coupling mechanism is provided. Unless something has drastically changed since the above samples were produced I'd assume that they'll have a NEM pocket mounted at (or near to) the correct height on a CCM, but as they're still on the slow boat we'll find out when they arrive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Does anyone know what has happened to these coaches to cause the sudden delay. They were showing on Bachmann's 60 day expected listing at the beginning of June, which is normally an indication that they are in production and due to be shipped, however 2-3 weeks ago they dropped off that list and on the main 'Products' listing they no longer have any estimated release dates. As the samples seen at shows were all types apart from the Brake Third, it seemed that engineering and paint types had been agreed for 5 out of 6 models. To have suddenly dropped out of sight raises the concern of a manufacturing problem within the production run. Bachmann have not advised dealers of any problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Does anyone know what has happened to these coaches to cause the sudden delay. They were showing on Bachmann's 60 day expected listing at the beginning of June, which is normally an indication that they are in production and due to be shipped, however 2-3 weeks ago they dropped off that list and on the main 'Products' listing they no longer have any estimated release dates. As the samples seen at shows were all types apart from the Brake Third, it seemed that engineering and paint types had been agreed for 5 out of 6 models. To have suddenly dropped out of sight raises the concern of a manufacturing problem within the production run. Bachmann have not advised dealers of any problem? According to the August Model rail mag (subs copy arrived today) They are at the Artwork/Livery sample stage so I would think it could be a few months before we see them here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 According to the August Model rail mag (subs copy arrived today) They are at the Artwork/Livery sample stage so I would think it could be a few months before we see them here. Thanks for the info johnd, I haven't got my copy of August Model Rail yet, however I'm not sure that is the answer, as it may predate whatever occurred in June, due to print copy deadlines. The coaches were originally showing on Bachmann's site with a release date of July/August, but since their removal from the 'expected in 60 days' list they are now showing with an 'On order' indicator with no estimated date. Normally, if an item with an expected release date is delayed, Bachmann amend the release date. It is unusual to remove any estimated date and put the item as 'On order' as that normally occurs before an item gets an estimated production slot, which makes me wonder if there has been another production problem with Bachmann (in line with the Modified and Original Halls) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Thanks for the info johnd, I haven't got my copy of August Model Rail yet, however I'm not sure that is the answer, as it may predate whatever occurred in June, due to print copy deadlines. The coaches were originally showing on Bachmann's site with a release date of July/August, but since their removal from the 'expected in 60 days' list they are now showing with an 'On order' indicator with no estimated date. Normally, if an item with an expected release date is delayed, Bachmann amend the release date. It is unusual to remove any estimated date and put the item as 'On order' as that normally occurs before an item gets an estimated production slot, which makes me wonder if there has been another production problem with Bachmann (in line with the Modified and Original Halls) Don't forget that there was a container ship split in two in pacific/Indian ocean, I am not saying anything but ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Don't forget that there was a container ship split in two in pacific/Indian ocean, I am not saying anything but ! Sounds about right for 'Porthole' coaches...... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Don't forget that there was a container ship split in two in pacific/Indian ocean, I am not saying anything but ! Interesting thought. The vessel is the mv MOL Comfort and both sections were originally afloat and salvage was being attempted. The stern section sank about 10 days ago. The bow section, with containers is under tow, about 150 miles from land, but caught fire at the weekend, so salvage may not be possible. All crew were rescued Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 During World War 2, a whole consignment of Stanier WD 8Fs were lost overboard with the sinking of their cargo ship, so in fact a lot more 8Fs still actually exist, albeit rather rusty. I wonder if this was anywhere near the loss of the above cargo and maybe LMS coaches? Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I e-mailed Bachmann customer services concerning the delay with these coaches and they have given me a response, which they have agreed can be posted to this forum. Apparently there were production difficulties with the tooling and changes have to be made, which have put these models back to 2014. The full reply is: Dear Mr Demand, Thank you for your email. Although we have received livery samples for the Porthole coaches, which I am sure many of our customers will have seen in the Bachmann display at a number of Model Railway exhibitions this year, it has been necessary to implement changes to the tooling specification due to production issues. Unfortunately this means that these items will now be released in 2014. I trust this information is of interest to you. Kind regards Richard Proudman Customer Support Bachmann Europe PLC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Rails of Sheffield - ever the optimists - are still showing them as "SOON". Has Bachmann not imparted the news to their dealers? DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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