RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 Indeed, Welcome Kit! Good to have you here. I was the one who had the 14 car set at Gloucester model railway club for your recent visit. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hi all Interesting on the last photo, the apt coach next off the power car, what are the two little wedge shapes od coach at each end of the coach and seems to follow up over the coach roof... that is not the normal coach is it.... excellent photo, I have to say Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hi all Interesting on the last photo, the apt coach next off the power car, what are the two little wedge shapes od coach at each end of the coach and seems to follow up over the coach roof... that is not the normal coach is it.... excellent photo, I have to say Jamie APT-E had short articulation modules between the coaches themselves. These are what you are seeing. APT-P did not have these modules and the coaches were articulated directly to each other. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hi Andy Interesting mate, I never saw them before so thanks for the insight. Hope you are keeping well mate... Do you or any one else have more photos of these coaches, perhaps a more close up of it... its interesting to see. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBird Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 ... Do you or any one else have more photos of these coaches, perhaps a more close up of it... its interesting to see. Jamie Don't know where you are Jamie, are you anywhere near Shildon? The whole train is still there for you... http://www.nrm.org.uk/OurCollection/LocomotivesAndRollingStock/CollectionItem.aspx?objid=1976-7002/2&cat=powered_units&comp=British_Rail&ipp=12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Do you or any one else have more photos of these coaches, perhaps a more close up of it... its interesting to see. Jamie How many would you like? I have a few hundred myself, but for the best set of APT-E photos try the web site for the Conseravtion and Support Group at http://www.apt-e.org/ That wierd bit was called the Joint Module, and it took up the angle between the two vehicles it was connected to, in tilt, yaw and pitch angles. To this end it had a flexible floor made from varying lengths of 3" x 4" RHS that took the most WEIRD shapes sometimes and was the very devil to walk across. It was designed to have a rubber membrane around the gap between the Joint Module and the adjacent vehicle but these only lasted about 3-4 miles on the very first run in July '72 and they were never replaced. Some of the fastening strips are STILL on the train to this day, but serve no purpose. As a result it was pretty breezy crossing from one vehicle to another, especially at speeds of 120+ mph at times. Here's one photo to be going on with, and you can see that the doors are in the sides of the Joint Module, there being no side doors at all in the two Trailer cars. Good to be here Andi and that's one CRACKING model you've got of P-Train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 How many would you like? I have a few hundred myself, but for the best set of APT-E photos try the web site for the Conseravtion and Support Group at http://www.apt-e.org/ That wierd bit was called the Joint Module, and it took up the angle between the two vehicles it was connected to, in tilt, yaw and pitch angles. To this end it had a flexible floor made from varying lengths of 3" x 4" RHS that took the most WEIRD shapes sometimes and was the very devil to walk across. It was designed to have a rubber membrane around the gap between the Joint Module and the adjacent vehicle but these only lasted about 3-4 miles on the very first run in July '72 and they were never replaced. Some of the fastening strips are STILL on the train to this day, but serve no purpose. As a result it was pretty breezy crossing from one vehicle to another, especially at speeds of 120+ mph at times. Here's one photo to be going on with, and you can see that the doors are in the sides of the Joint Module, there being no side doors at all in the two Trailer cars. Good to be here Andi and that's one CRACKING model you've got of P-Train. Hi Mr Tilt Great bit of history explained above and the photo... thanks for the link. Notice on the doors about there are 2 doors or one and half doors, was this a staff only door or wheel chair access although I find that hard to take in as wheel chair friendly was not really thought of back then.... very interesting and many thanks for your input on that.... Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi Mr Tilt Great bit of history explained above and the photo... thanks for the link. Notice on the doors about there are 2 doors or one and half doors, was this a staff only door or wheel chair access although I find that hard to take in as wheel chair friendly was not really thought of back then.... The doors are slightly asymmetric with angled edges so one, the nearer one in the photo, closes over the edge of the other one and holds it closed in turn. That's why it looks as if one is smaller than the other. EVERY door on the train was a 'staff only' door as APT-E wasn't designed to carry passengers at all, it was always just a test train, thus the 'Experiemntal' bit of the title. Even if it was intended that wheelchairs access that way they wouldn't have got much futher as there was a 1 ft high strengthening beam to get over before they'd be able to get into the coach! If you get to go into Trailer Car 1 at Shildon you won't notice the beam as we've arranged the steps up to the vestibule to be level with the top of the beam itself, but it's still there. Admittedly the beam was added after the original design as the end portions of the Trailer Cars were found not to be strong enough. The APT-P had wider access doors to its coaches but I'm not sure if they were designed for wheelchair access. They'd have been on the drawing board around 1973-4 I guess, and even that was a bit early for such 'advanced' thinking perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The doors are slightly asymmetric with angled edges so one, the nearer one in the photo, closes over the edge of the other one and holds it closed in turn. That's why it looks as if one is smaller than the other. EVERY door on the train was a 'staff only' door as APT-E wasn't designed to carry passengers at all, it was always just a test train, thus the 'Experiemntal' bit of the title. Even if it was intended that wheelchairs access that way they wouldn't have got much futher as there was a 1 ft high strengthening beam to get over before they'd be able to get into the coach! If you get to go into Trailer Car 1 at Shildon you won't notice the beam as we've arranged the steps up to the vestibule to be level with the top of the beam itself, but it's still there. Admittedly the beam was added after the original design as the end portions of the Trailer Cars were found not to be strong enough. The APT-P had wider access doors to its coaches but I'm not sure if they were designed for wheelchair access. They'd have been on the drawing board around 1973-4 I guess, and even that was a bit early for such 'advanced' thinking perhaps? Thanks for the great insight on that, your job must have been so interesting.... did you ever want to leave or retire from it... Cheers for that Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks for the great insight on that, your job must have been so interesting.... did you ever want to leave or retire from it... I did after a few years, but if people higher up had made some more sensible decisions maybe I'd still be doing it. When the APT project was moved from the R&D Division over to the CM&EE Dept they took most of the APT-E designers with them but left all the development staff behind! That was a seriously dumb idea because CM&EE had almost zero knoweldge about some of the fields we'd been working in. My particular specialisation, hydraulics and their controls, was one of them and CM&EE had to learn all about it the hard way. Many of the APT-E development guys left BR almost straight away but I lucked out as APD had a requirement for a Laboratory Facilities Manager in the Lab and I did that for a couple of years. Because of CM&EE's lack of knowledge on the hydraulics front some of the APT-P Tilt System work was sub-contracted back to us so I got to do some work on the Mk 4 Power Car Tilt packs and on the Mk 5 Trailer Car packs too. But in 1978 one of our equipment suppliers head-hunted me to be their Service Engineer in an area that stretched from Ireland in the West to Oman in the East, from Norway in the Nouth to South Africa! All that plus a company car, a generous expense account and a doubled salary. Needless too say I took a long time thinking about, around 2 milliseconds and I stayed there for 30 years, from whence I retired about 6 yrs ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prb8 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hello All, I'm new to RMWeb and have only recently reintroduced myself to the world of railway modelling after a 10 year break and i just thought i'd pop a little thread up about some of my collection and some of the projects i've got on the go and am also considering. I got the bug again when i was in my local model shop in hereford, when i bumped into an old friend from school who asked if i was still "into my trains" as she put it because she had recently split up with her fella and was looking to shift his collection of british OO. She sold me a tender driven Flying Scotsman with 3 Gresley Teaks and an EWS class 92 with 12 EWS LWB wagons at a price not to be refused and it all went downhill from there... Some of the trains i had from my previous days include an APT-P with another power car, which is my pride and joy, a couple of scale length Hornby virgin mk3's, a virgin DVT and various other 'bits' of locos and coaches that were not fully appreciated by my 14-year-old-self, as i had not worked hard to earn the money to pay for them myself! I'm now going through that stage that all blokes do of living out the various ideas and dreams i had when i was was younger, only now i have the time, knowledge and most importantly THE MONEY to see them through! I have been modifying and renovating my APT so now i have 1 power car with 2 motor bogies that have both got all new brushes, springs and traction tyres. the twin motor bogie set up seems to work extremely well, offering noticeably better tractive power, improved conductivity and much better slow speed operation. Cosmetically, The pantograph is present and i have replaced the plastic bus bars which were all damaged with thin copper wire glued in place, which gives a pleasing result. The other power car will now solely be used as a dummy, either with the operational power car in the APT or potentially in one of RTC Derby's test trains that comprised of one of the prototype HST power cars, an APT power car and a couple of the RTC test cars that i am considering modelling. I have recently obtained a selection of spare parts for my APT including bogies and couplings so should i have any breakages, i'm sorted. I have also now got a very tatty driving trailer and a good condition intermediate coach. I would like to get another intermediate so i can lengthen the train to 8 vehicles (Not strictly prototypical i know) or break out the tools and modify them into a fully articulated coach. All the coaches are getting Bachmann disc wheels. My Virgin trains collection has now expanded to a full rake of 8 Hornby scale length mk3's including the TGS, the buffet and 2 first class coaches. some of the running numbers are duplicated but i plan on sorting that with some of the transfer kits i have seen available. As the coaches i got from ebay all have mismatched couplings, i am converting them all to Keen Systems close couplings which i must say i am extremely impressed with. They are all having Bachmann disc wheels fitted too. As far as virgin liveried power goes, i have 2 options - I have an HST power and dummy car which are both currently undergoing conversions to have directional LED Lighting and i also have 90015 "The International Brigades Spain 1936 - 1939" with my DVT bringing up the rear. My 3 Gresley Teaks have now increased to 12, with 4 sleeper cars. They are all the older Hornby ones which i agree are nowhere near as nice as the latest ones Hornby have to offer but are a fraction of the cost. They are all having their roofs painted the same shade of white, their corridor ends painted appropriately, Bachmann disc wheels and keen close couplings. I now also have Mallard to accompany Flying Scotsman. I hope i haven't waffled on too much and that that may be of some interest or even of some help to some of you. If anyone has any suggestions or advice that i may find helpful, it would be appreciated. Regards, Phil Hello, i too have a apt with spare power car. how easy is it to fit both motors in one motor coach? and then i could use other as 'dummy' i am only running dc at the moment, could you let me have step-by-step instructions as how to fit/wire up 2 motors please, i have 2 hymeks i understand are good as parts suppliers too?? thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prb8 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hello, i too have a apt with spare power car., one Power car is a great runner in both directions, but i get body 'squeaks' when it goes along, the other power car is slower stuttery runner, how easy is it to fit both motors when serviced in one motor coach? and then i could use other as 'dummy'? how do i stop the body squeaks, ive tried oil but with no success i am only running dc at the moment, could you let me have step-by-step instructions as how to fit/wire up 2 motors please , i have 2 hymeks i understand are good as parts suppliers too?? thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo2929 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Hi Shane hows the progress on the kit coming along Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCCmad Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Hi all, I'm wanting to get 2 new pantographs for my APT power cars, where can you get a prototypical or closely resembling one from? Thanks Connor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I'm wanting to get 2 new pantographs for my APT power cars, where can you get a prototypical or closely resembling one from? Connor, The APT carried two types of pantograph: Brecknell Willis and Stone Faiveley. Which prototype power car are you wanting to model and with which pantograph? Finding decent representations of either pan to replace the Hornby one with is a bit of a nightmare. Hurst models do kits for both types but there is some speculation as to whether these are still available. The pans available with the Bachmann 85 are a good representation of the Stone Faiveley type (as originally fitted to the APT-P) but are not available as spares (to the best of my knowledge). Similar story for the pans that were supplied with the Heljan 86. Other people on this forum have made their own pans from brass components soldered together. Memorably, Cav (aka RBE) made a nice representation of a Brecknell Willis using brass on his 4mm class 90 (use the forum search to find this). Hope that helps! Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCCmad Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Thanks for that Guy, I'll have a look tomorrow Connor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Connor, The APT carried two types of pantograph: Brecknell Willis and Stone Faiveley. Which prototype power car are you wanting to model and with which pantograph? Finding decent representations of either pan to replace the Hornby one with is a bit of a nightmare. Hurst models do kits for both types but there is some speculation as to whether these are still available.... They're out of stock - whether they ever get produced again will probably depend on whether anyone can afford a humongous bulk order of each type, e.g. 100 of each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted August 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2014 With genuine spare pans going for 30 to 35 quid on eBay I have often wondered about the viability of a repro version. Glad I still have mine on my APT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Not knowing anything about these, are any of the Somerfeldt HO ones close? - I know they are smaller but wasn't sure if there are differences in sizes that mean one of them might suit?- Continental prototypes often being larger than UK If not are any of the spare parts of use in a scratch-build? http://www.blackwells-miniatures.com/sf-sommerfeldt-catenary-n-ho-pantographs-etc-c-34_169.html?page=1&sort=20a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The Sommerfeldt is only good if you want to model a Stone Faiveley (as originally fitted to the APT-P). Try the 968 pan with replacement contact shoe (as the one fitted doesn't look right). Not sure which contact shoe to try but the 980 looks about right to me. I think you'll still be fitting a 1:87 scale PAN to a 1:76.2 scale model though. It might be better to scratch build one from brass and wire (can't be that hard can it?). Cav's 86 looks quite nice done in this way with a Sommerfeldt pan: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37382-86-604-first-freight-sparky-for-outon/page-2 Of course, the best thing to do is to look at photos/drawings of the prototype and work it out. For me, prototype research is one of the more fun bits of the hobby (but maybe I'm weird)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 This is one interesting topic. I am thinking of creating the test train pictured on page 4. I have started buying a few bits as and when i can afford it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I plan on doing something very similar with some of my spare APT vehicles. Found a lot of information here http://www.traintesting.com/ The Shortest formation I have seen was a Class 41 acting as a DVT, RTC Test Service Car 8, APT Power Car (With no APT logos but painted in executive livery) and RTC Test Car 5 Power car test train diag.jpg power car test train 4.jpg Colour test train.jpg Hope this is of some help... Hi, Does anyone know where that second photo was taken? Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Derby at a guess. Cheers Shane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It could be passing the Derby Power Box before it had it's 'Mushroom Head' head upgrade. Here's two pics of E-Train in which you can see the Power Box in the background, but I can't figure out where the P-Train Test Train would be where you could see trees in the background. The Power Boxes of the period were all of very similar design so it could have been taken in any number of places I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Definitely Derby! Know that place! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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