Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan etc.

[Kevin]

Hi, Have just signed-up here and hope this is in the right place...

 

 

Regarding the general quality of the models, motor/running gear, painting etc. are any of these manufacturers considered 'better' than the other?

 

I'm at the planning stage of a new OO gauge layout in a 13' x 10' spare bedroom (around the walls). I did have thoughts of going EM but hand building turnouts puts me off so I'll probably go with Peco code 75 finescale track as a compromise.

 

I will be setting it in the mid to late 1960's era, with early BR diesels on a small (imaginary) south-western branch junction station with small yard.

I'll be after a couple of DMU's and have been looking at the Hornby class 121 'bublecar' and Bachmann class 108 models. I also fancy the Heljan Class 33 even though the one for this era is a 33/2 although my worry about mixing manufacturers is the colours of the same liveries being slightly different?

 

Obviously I'll also be after some freight stock for the era and some Mk1 coaches, but I may kit-build the wagons...

 

I don't think I'll be using or needing DCC so this is not a deal-breaker if the model doesn't support it.

 

I've been away from model railways for about 15 years or so and things have changed a bit, with models having better detailing and more variety of loco's, liveries and numbers etc.

I've not had much chance to actually look at them close-up to compare (yet) and just value the input from the members around here.

 

 

So in sumary, without getting too model specific, what would your preference in manufacturer be?

 

--Kevin--

[The Fatadder]

In short there is not a whole lot between Bachmann Hornby and Heljan. In my mind Heljan have the best designed chassis (all be it with a few recent motor problems with the Clayton), Hornby the best quality finish (though recent Bachmann such as the 150 is everybit as good).

 

Dont worry about the colours of different manufactures rail blue differing, the prototype differed as well!

[ajdown]

Slightly different shades of blue don't really matter if your stock is all weathered properly and given a coat of 'all over crud' as per the real thing

['CHARD]

Kevin, first and foremost welcome to RMWeb, and welcome back to the hobby. I just happen to be on line and this may or may not be the first reply to land, but in any case you'll find that the old adage: 'there's as many opinions as there are, er people' holds true on here as anywhere in life. Sometimes more so!

 

Sounds like you've got a nice space available - there are plenty of threads on RMWeb discussing how best to use a modelling room, according to what you want from your layout.

 

Regarding manufacturers, it's fair to say that, irrespective of livery shades (remember that blue looks different in life too, and shades weren't always identical across main works and depots by any means, plus it degrades and weathers) nearly all modern offerings from the majors are incomparable with what you were used to in 1994. The only real exception is the range of ex-Lima product released now by Hornby, although despite not having central drive are still much better performers than any Hornby items from the last century. Their 'Railroad' range is aimed at the budget/ pocket-money end of the market.

 

I only returned to the hobby after Heljan entered the UK market and since 2008 I've not been able to resist wholesale replacement of my fleet. It includes Heljan and Bachmann diesels, Hornby 1st generation DMUs, and I'm happy with all of them. Somewhere else on here heated debates rage about the relative merits of the three majors. I'll declare my hand: Hornby don't produce any locos that I require, hence I have none.

 

Anyway, the very best of luck: enjoy, prepare to be amazed at how often you'll be troubling your wallet, and make the most of the search function on here - down in products the discussions are all there. Albeit some have reached rather esoteric points in their lifecycle

 

PS - just noticed the awesome avatar!

[Kevin]

In short there is not a whole lot between Bachmann Hornby and Heljan. In my mind Heljan have the best designed chassis (all be it with a few recent motor problems with the Clayton), Hornby the best quality finish (though recent Bachmann such as the 150 is everybit as good).

 

Dont worry about the colours of different manufactures rail blue differing, the prototype differed as well!

 

Fatadder - Thanks, I must admit, I looked at a new Hornby loco the other day and was astonished at the detail, certainly compared to the older ones i had years ago!

 

 

Slightly different shades of blue don't really matter if your stock is all weathered properly and given a coat of 'all over crud' as per the real thing

 

Good point ajdown - I will be weathering the stock, although I notice some actually come weathered these days.

 

Kevin, first and foremost welcome to RMWeb, and welcome back to the hobby. I just happen to be on line and this may or may not be the first reply to land, but in any case you'll find that the old adage: 'there's as many opinions as there are, er people' holds true on here as anywhere in life. Sometimes more so!

 

Sounds like you've got a nice space available - there are plenty of threads on RMWeb discussing how best to use a modelling room, according to what you want from your layout.

 

Regarding manufacturers, it's fair to say that, irrespective of livery shades (remember that blue looks different in life too, and shades weren't always identical across main works and depots by any means, plus it degrades and weathers) nearly all modern offerings from the majors are incomparable with what you were used to in 1994. The only real exception is the range of ex-Lima product released now by Hornby, although despite not having central drive are still much better performers than any Hornby items from the last century. Their 'Railroad' range is aimed at the budget/ pocket-money end of the market.

 

I only returned to the hobby after Heljan entered the UK market and since 2008 I've not been able to resist wholesale replacement of my fleet. It includes Heljan and Bachmann diesels, Hornby 1st generation DMUs, and I'm happy with all of them. Somewhere else on here heated debates rage about the relative merits of the three majors. I'll declare my hand: Hornby don't produce any locos that I require, hence I have none.

 

Anyway, the very best of luck: enjoy, prepare to be amazed at how often you'll be troubling your wallet, and make the most of the search function on here - down in products the discussions are all there. Albeit some have reached rather esoteric points in their lifecycle

 

PS - just noticed the awesome avatar!

 

Thanks for the kind welcome CHARD

 

Yes I'm lucky to be 'allowed' to use one of the spare bedrooms. I'll be having the majority of the layout area on a 13' x 2' set of boards with a double track loop going around the room for continuous running with a fiddle yard on the rear wall to allow more realistic operation.

 

I think it's going to come down to what classes/types I need rather than having to use a particular manufacturer as they all seem pretty good these days, and as i said above, they will all get weathered in some way or another and as everyone else has pointed out, colours do vary in real life anyway.

I'll probably steer clear of the 'Railroad' range, I've just had a look at them!

 

Glad you like the old Western avatar!

 

 

 

Thanks to all for your helpful replies - I'm finding some very useful info here and am even more inspired to get started on some baseboards this coming weekend.

['CHARD]

'Western Avatar,' oh I did love her. D1076 as I recall - only managed one trip, between Barnstaple and Ilfracombe behind her....

 

[i'll get me coat...]

[Kevin]

'Western Avatar,' oh I did love her. D1076 as I recall - only managed one trip, between Barnstaple and Ilfracombe behind her....

 

[i'll get me coat...]

 

Very good :icon_rolleyes:

 

it's actually 1063 Western Monitor taken in 1975 at Plymouth.

[CullingworthGNR]

If you're into BR diesels, you really are spoilt for choice when it comes to locos with good detailing and decent mechanisms. All have similar chassis / drive systems, and have similar levels of detail, though I particularly love the Heljan mechanism. Anything with a flywheel will run smoothly as long as you keep your track relatively clean, and you get to choose from the following loco classes!

 

Class 08 - Hornby / Bachmann

Class 17 - Heljan

Class 20 - Bachmann

Class 24/25 - Bachmann

Class 26/27 - Heljan

Class 33 - Heljan

Class 35 - Heljan

Class 37 - Bachmann, ViTrains

Class 40 - Bachmann

Class 42/43 - Bachmann

Class 43 (HST) - Hornby

Class 44/45/46 - Bachmann

Class 47 - Bachmann, Heljan and ViTrains

Class 50 - Hornby

Class 52 - Heljan

Class 55 - Bachmann

Class 56 - Hornby

 

All the above are available in BR Blue or Green, and all have flywheel drive - maybe make it a shopping list for the next few weeks

[birdseyecircus]

You missed out :

Class 09 Hornby

Class 31 Hornby

 

Paul

[Dave777]

This might see you right:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=31439

[Kevin]

Tom, Paul

 

Thanks for the list of locos - I've noticed the huge range available these days and I'm sure I'll have to make my mind up some time what to buy.

 

The layout isn't going to be awash with locos so I'll be choosing carefully to suit the layout. I do like the look of the Heljan 33.

 

Dave,

 

Good link, I'll look into getting this for reference.

 

 

Thanks again to all

[Pennine MC]

 

The layout isn't going to be awash with locos...

 

Yeah, we all say that

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Have just signed-up here and hope this is in the right place...

Given that comment you probably ought to be aware, that there are parts of the forum where RTR locos constently get praised and slated, on various issues.

 

Alot of these are personal, but there ought to be some you are aware of:

Reliability issues: (certain batches only)

Heljan 17, Hornby 31 - there are possibly more but these are ones I've seen mentioned recently,

 

Looks: This is a real can of worms, and you ought to be aware there is a large spectrum of modellers on here, so if it looks to you like you want it to look like if you see what I mean:

but there have been various 'issues' the amongst the common ones that seem to surface:

Bachmann 24/25 Cab/Underframe issues

Heljan 33 which I noticed you mentioned, the 33/1 and 33/2 sub classes are thought by some to be better than the original 33/0

37's and 47's enough varients/manufacturers to take your pick, as to which looks best to you?

Bachmann 40 - shape issues, relationship between nose/cab/cantrail

Heljan Western, Cab roof/brow issue

 

This is not an exhaustive list, and you will be able to decide which you like the look of and which you dont!

[Kevin]

Yeah, we all say that

 

Yeah, I know, but this time I mean it... [maybe...]

 

 

Given that comment you probably ought to be aware, that there are parts of the forum where RTR locos constently get praised and slated, on various issues.

 

Alot of these are personal, but there ought to be some you are aware of:

Reliability issues: (certain batches only)

Heljan 17, Hornby 31 - there are possibly more but these are ones I've seen mentioned recently,

 

Looks: This is a real can of worms, and you ought to be aware there is a large spectrum of modellers on here, so if it looks to you like you want it to look like if you see what I mean:

but there have been various 'issues' the amongst the common ones that seem to surface:

Bachmann 24/25 Cab/Underframe issues

Heljan 33 which I noticed you mentioned, the 33/1 and 33/2 sub classes are thought by some to be better than the original 33/0

37's and 47's enough varients/manufacturers to take your pick, as to which looks best to you?

Bachmann 40 - shape issues, relationship between nose/cab/cantrail

Heljan Western, Cab roof/brow issue

 

This is not an exhaustive list, and you will be able to decide which you like the look of and which you dont!

 

Some good comments Russ, I'm not a 'rivet-counter', so the odd lamp iron (or whatever) that is not quite the right shape doesn't bother me too much, but I do like things to look right in my own eyes, and to me the 33's that I've seen do look right, although I'm not sure on the actual dimensions of the 33/2 whether it actually is of the old 'Hastings gauge' or 'normal' and just carries a 33/2 number!

From comments here, and in the other forums, I get the impression that most of todays models are pretty good, but as you say, with some things it's worth comparing between manufacturers just to see the differences.

 

Thanks!!

[SRman]

The Heljan 33/2 is, indeed, correctly narrow for the Hastings Line gauge. It is a completely different body moulding with the correctly different cant rail grilles too. My photo shows all three Heljan types, although I have modifed the incorrectly profiled 33/0 cab roofs to disguise the error somewhat; you can still make out the overall flatter roof profile though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruciethefish]

Hi Kevin, & welcome... Just to reassure you on the 33/2, the model is proper Hastings gauge, being significantly slimmer than the other variants.. It's a really nice model too, I just had to have one, & I'm a kettle fan!..

Have fun!

[Kevin]

The Heljan 33/2 is, indeed, correctly narrow for the Hastings Line gauge. It is a completely different body moulding with the correctly different cant rail grilles too. My photo shows all three Heljan types, although I have modifed the incorrectly profiled 33/0 cab roofs to disguise the error somewhat; you can still make out the overall flatter roof profile though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Kevin, & welcome... Just to reassure you on the 33/2, the model is proper Hastings gauge, being significantly slimmer than the other variants.. It's a really nice model too, I just had to have one, & I'm a kettle fan!..

Have fun!

 

Thanks to both of you for confirming this, it looked like it was but wasn't sure.

Looks like a letter to Santa!

[Pinkmouse]

Thanks to both of you for confirming this, it looked like it was but wasn't sure.

 

The fifteenth pic down here may be of interest.

[owentherail]

Yes... i like avatar too, also you will need a western on your layout. Heljan bringing out another western next year, owen

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Hi Kevin, & welcome... Just to reassure you on the 33/2, the model is proper Hastings gauge, being significantly slimmer than the other variants.. It's a really nice model too, I just had to have one, & I'm a kettle fan!..

Have fun!

Quite so! You'll notice I like my BRCW's Scottish and type 2, but thinking gonna have to have one of these if only to look at!

Heljan bringing out another western next year

- wonder if its new & improved or just new?

[SRman]

? 

? 

- wonder if its new & improved or just new?

 

 

 

Probably the latter! Even so, it is not that difficult to file the cab roof down to nearer the correct profile, leaving the horn protrusion as is. If you weather the cab roofs (or, better still, the whole roof area) you won't even have to match the paint colour exactly.

 

 

 

[del00]

Hi Kevin,

 

Just to stick my oar in,

 

I've found Model Rails review of rolling stock to be very helpful.

 

The 2010 copy is out soon.

 

ta

 

deloo

[sulzer27jd]

Hi, Have just signed-up here and hope this is in the right place...

 

 

 

I don't think I'll be using or needing DCC so this is not a deal-breaker if the model doesn't support it.

 

 

--Kevin--

 

Kevin, don't dismiss DCC. If you are planning a layout from a blank sheet of paper then might I suggest that you consider "less-is-more" and think about having a smaller fleet of sound fitted locos. Unless you are building a huge layout then they add a real extra in terms of operating, so if you are going for "a small (imaginary) south-western branch junction station with small yard" , then I would suggest this would be a real benefit. I find that shunting a small yard can be good fun, when you can hear what your doing.

 

John

[Kevin]

The fifteenth pic down here may be of interest.

 

Thanks - Some nice models!

 

Yes... i like avatar too, also you will need a western on your layout. Heljan bringing out another western next year, owen

 

Mmmmm, don't make me spend too much

 

 

Hi Kevin,

 

Just to stick my oar in,

 

I've found Model Rails review of rolling stock to be very helpful.

 

The 2010 copy is out soon.

 

ta

 

deloo

 

Will check this out for some bedtime reading!

 

 

Kevin, don't dismiss DCC. If you are planning a layout from a blank sheet of paper then might I suggest that you consider "less-is-more" and think about having a smaller fleet of sound fitted locos. Unless you are building a huge layout then they add a real extra in terms of operating, so if you are going for "a small (imaginary) south-western branch junction station with small yard" , then I would suggest this would be a real benefit. I find that shunting a small yard can be good fun, when you can hear what your doing.

 

John

 

John - Yes, I see where you are coming from... As you say, I'm not intending having a large amount of stock running at any one time even though i have a fairly large room at my disposal I'm trying to keep it simple and more realistic.

I come from the 'old school' of model railways and try to keep things simple, or as I know them (boring!!). I am used to insulated frog turnouts and simple DC controllers with the odd isolating section here and there.

However, after recent reading up on DCC (and live frog turnouts!), it does seem the way to go, so I may take your advice and go down that road, especially as I am starting from scratch again with no current controllers or stock etc. Once i get my head around the wiring I'm sure I'll be a 'convert'!

 

Also the cost of DCC has come down dramatically compared to a few years ago when it first came out and more loco's etc. are capable of being fitted with chips.

 

 

 

 

Thanks again to everyone for your comments and help. I've spent ages (too long maybe) on this very friendly site of late, and have gained a lot of knowledge from you all.

When i start the layout 'in anger' shortly I'll be sure to document it's progress as I am also a keen photographer and will be taking plenty of pictures!

 

Now to decide on what track system to use.... [another post coming on I think!]

['CHARD]

There's nothing to get your head around with wiring DCC, Kevin. It is literally two wires. I'm running DC wired for conversion (soon I hope) to DCC, and the key is continuity of supply, which is easy enough by running a couple of bus wires and plenty of droppers at regular intervals.