Track Plans for North American Layouts

[DavidB-AU]

I can envision entry to lower level staging in the lower right corner... you could have staging tracks that are almost a full loop for typically long US trains.

 

On the original HOG, the siding on the lower right is the Georgia Central interchange track. The other siding on that same section is the Norfolk Southern interchange track. They would be the logical places to put exits to low level staging. The hard part would be designing the benchwork so the layout is still portable and the tracks down to staging aren't too steep.

 

Cheers

David

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I haven't posted any plans in a while.  Here's the latest version of Lubbock, Tx, Zone 4.  Designed to fit a 16' x 8' space.

 

 

Uses Peco #8s and is pretty near to scale apart from the length of the 0420 lead and the 0449 track are somewhat compressed.

 

A pair of GP38-2s and assorted boxcars, a small number of covered hoppers, one or two occasional tankcars and gondolas would suffice.

 

The staging area is deliberately spartan, as I have ten turnouts in my posession, that's what the plan is designed to use!

 

Chances of building this one are quite high...

Edited June 13, 2013 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

An unusual form of track planning.... here is Zone 4 laid out on the floor.  I had to make a slight adjustment to the length, as the contractors who laid out my shed base f&*%ed up the dimensions.  Idiots.

 

 

The building outlines are added on in Photoshop, although I could have used gaffer tape if I'd thought about it

 

 

[roundhouse]

An unusual form of track planning.... here is Zone 4 laid out on the floor.  I had to make a slight adjustment to the length, as the contractors who laid out my shed base f&*%ed up the dimensions.  Idiots.

 

lubbock mock up 01.jpg

 

The building outlines are added on in Photoshop, although I could have used gaffer tape if I'd thought about it

I like the layout planning method. It did look like tape to me!!

 

my shed has to wait till the developers next door sort out our boundary wall.

 

Ian

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Ian, I hope yours can count better then mine 

[roundhouse]

Ian, I hope yours can count better then mine 

More like you hope I can count as I will build the shed myself.

 

That way I know its been assembled and sealed correctly.

Ian

[Satan's Goldfish]

First time posting in this Forum and never really done much with American bits, but as i tinker with getting my kids little n-gauge layout going again my mind is already swinging towards larger things if they show lots of interest. For something different, i'm also tempted to try and sway them towards American stock so an American style plan for a later date might be useful.

 

The plan below is for 2 major-ish routes crossing in a minor town. Location is very loose! Similar in idea to part of 'Fostoria' as we used to watch the camera there a while ago (Is there a camera back there yet?)

 

Spread over 3 boards, each board has a feature, starting from the left the area in a purple box would be my uncompleted attempt at the 2011 challenge a couple of years ago (still sitting on a shelf waiting for attention!) of tall grain silos and a loader. Feature on the middle board would be the big diamond crossing. And the feature on the right board would be a bridge over a river.

 

The 2 tracks for the kids would work in a figure-of-8 with the option of a third running on the joins around the edge if i want a play too or for trains to swap lines. I think i'm over complicating the fiddle yard loops to squeeze in the ends but i've coloured track ends to show where they should connect to. I'll tweak them a bit more. Bi-directional running everywhere.

 

Would this be simple and 'American' like enough to pass muster?

 

 

Cheers

[dana]

an aid to track planning US/Canada railroads

Trains has a special mag out that's on railroad maps (city, area , system etc )of  railroads in the us  spanning various decades  plus other info such as tonnage , types of frieght  and abandoned routes . On sale til Oct 28th  

[shortliner]

First time posting in this Forum and never really done much with American bits, but as i tinker with getting my kids little n-gauge layout going again my mind is already swinging towards larger things if they show lots of interest. For something different, i'm also tempted to try and sway them towards American stock so an American style plan for a later date might be useful.

 

The plan below is for 2 major-ish routes crossing in a minor town. Location is very loose! Similar in idea to part of 'Fostoria' as we used to watch the camera there a while ago (Is there a camera back there yet?)

 

Spread over 3 boards, each board has a feature, starting from the left the area in a purple box would be my uncompleted attempt at the 2011 challenge a couple of years ago (still sitting on a shelf waiting for attention!) of tall grain silos and a loader. Feature on the middle board would be the big diamond crossing. And the feature on the right board would be a bridge over a river.

 

The 2 tracks for the kids would work in a figure-of-8 with the option of a third running on the joins around the edge if i want a play too or for trains to swap lines. I think i'm over complicating the fiddle yard loops to squeeze in the ends but i've coloured track ends to show where they should connect to. I'll tweak them a bit more. Bi-directional running everywhere.

 

Would this be simple and 'American' like enough to pass muster?

 

American 'N' Idea.jpg

 

Cheers

SG - TBH it looks far too regular - more like a track schemattic - and almost as though it has been laid out on a drafting board with setquares - there is no "flow - it needs some curvature somehow - 20+turnouts and 4 diamonds is far more than I'd expect to find in a minor town - sorry to sound negative

Edited August 23, 2013 by shortliner

[Adrian Wintle]

SG - TBH it looks far too regular - more like a track schemattic - and almost as though it has been laid out on a drafting board with setquares - there is no "flow - it needs some curvature somehow - 20+turnouts and 4 diamonds is far more than I'd expect to find in a minor town - sorry to sound negative

 

But most of those turnouts are off the scenic area (fiddle yards) and it is only one 'diamond' - one double track main crossing another. It has the 'wide open spaces' look* that I find missing from a lot of the 'North American' shunting planks, which tend to be set in areas that require that constraint..

 

*or at least, the 'unconstrained' look

 

As for it looking too straight - https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Gary,+IN,+United+States&hl=en&ll=41.497646,-86.765272&spn=0.003271,0.005177&sll=41.148478,-83.411465&sspn=0.026305,0.041413&oq=Gary+in&hnear=Gary,+Lake,+Indiana,+United+States&t=h&z=18

 

 

 

 

Adrian

Edited August 23, 2013 by Adrian Wintle

[Glorious NSE]

Just trying to get my head around this one SG - so the two scenic 'arms' then connect back to the FYs behind them (as per the colour coding?) - or am I misunderstanding your reference to fig 8?

 

If they are main lines that loop round and allow through running then that's not bad, it does have the simplicity of layout and 'space' as Adrian says.

 

One (potential) downside is that a train on one main line then comes back through on the other main line, so you can't say 'this is railroad X and this is railroad Y' - although there's enough places these days where they are all mixed up that it may not matter to you that much...

 

For my tastes i'd want at least some capability for doing some switching (but if your tastes differ then that's fine!) - at the moment you have one industry spur with effectively 'one spot' that might get switched. For my own personal taste i'd be considering making the elavator silo's low relief, putting the loading track off the blue circuit alongside them, and making the foreground in front of the 3 main tracks a small yard that can 'interchange between the two routes' and also occasionally send a switcher out to serve the elavator...sorta as attached. I've bunged in a few more crossovers as well, if you're crossing the mains from the yard on the LH 'leg' you'll need those, the RH extra one is I think useful to link the relevant bits of staging?

Edited August 23, 2013 by Glorious NSE

[shortliner]

But most of those turnouts are off the scenic area (fiddle yards) and it is only one 'diamond' - one double track main crossing another. It has the 'wide open spaces' look* that I find missing from a lot of the 'North American' shunting planks, which tend to be set in areas that require that constraint..

 

*or at least, the 'unconstrained' look

 

As for it looking too straight - https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Gary,+IN,+United+States&hl=en&ll=41.497646,-86.765272&spn=0.003271,0.005177&sll=41.148478,-83.411465&sspn=0.026305,0.041413&oq=Gary+in&hnear=Gary,+Lake,+Indiana,+United+States&t=h&z=18

 

 

 

 

Adrian

Excuse me? 2 tracks crossing 2 tracks equals four diamomd ctossings, surely?

 

Edited August 23, 2013 by shortliner

[Glorious NSE]

Either way, there's quite a few small towns throughout the midwest where there are interlockings with groupings of diamonds just like that where 2 main lines cross...

[shortliner]

I appreciate that - it is just that the sidings at the top make the whole thing look too regular and too crowded, to my eyes, for a small town. Granted that it is neither a crossing point, nor a junction, but a small midwestern town - to my eyes - is something like the original IOTA, or Elrick - both on Carls site, or some of Peter Norths superbly evocative modeling

Edited August 23, 2013 by shortliner

[Satan's Goldfish]

SG - TBH it looks far too regular - more like a track schemattic - and almost as though it has been laid out on a drafting board with setquares - there is no "flow - it needs some curvature somehow - 20+turnouts and 4 diamonds is far more than I'd expect to find in a minor town - sorry to sound negative

 

Sorry, i've not been too clear with the diagram, there's a better one below showing what would be scenic and what wouldn't. the top turnouts are part of the storage yard, I just didn't get around to finishing it!

 

Some of the feel is supposed to be like the old Fostoria cam, lots of passing services over the big diamond. Good pictures here:

 

http://akronrrclub.wordpress.com/about/activities/2012-longest-day-at-fostoria/

 

 

 

But most of those turnouts are off the scenic area (fiddle yards) and it is only one 'diamond' - one double track main crossing another. It has the 'wide open spaces' look* that I find missing from a lot of the 'North American' shunting planks, which tend to be set in areas that require that constraint..

 

*or at least, the 'unconstrained' look

 

As for it looking too straight - https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Gary,+IN,+United+States&hl=en&ll=41.497646,-86.765272&spn=0.003271,0.005177&sll=41.148478,-83.411465&sspn=0.026305,0.041413&oq=Gary+in&hnear=Gary,+Lake,+Indiana,+United+States&t=h&z=18

 

 

 

 

Adrian

 

Correct, and thank you!

 

Just trying to get my head around this one SG - so the two scenic 'arms' then connect back to the FYs behind them (as per the colour coding?) - or am I misunderstanding your reference to fig 8?

 

If they are main lines that loop round and allow through running then that's not bad, it does have the simplicity of layout and 'space' as Adrian says.

 

One (potential) downside is that a train on one main line then comes back through on the other main line, so you can't say 'this is railroad X and this is railroad Y' - although there's enough places these days where they are all mixed up that it may not matter to you that much...

 

For my tastes i'd want at least some capability for doing some switching (but if your tastes differ then that's fine!) - at the moment you have one industry spur with effectively 'one spot' that might get switched. For my own personal taste i'd be considering making the elavator silo's low relief, putting the loading track off the blue circuit alongside them, and making the foreground in front of the 3 main tracks a small yard that can 'interchange between the two routes' and also occasionally send a switcher out to serve the elavator...sorta as attached. I've bunged in a few more crossovers as well, if you're crossing the mains from the yard on the LH 'leg' you'll need those, the RH extra one is I think useful to link the relevant bits of staging?

 

Sorry, that was me being lazy and not finishing the plan properly, find an improved one below!

 

 

The silo area was again very lazy drawing of me on the plan, but would be the Australian model i started building for the 2011 challenge. It can move accross the Pacific quite easily as there's more US 'n' out there than Australian! See link below for what it looks like:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37652-tk-grain-terminal-nsw-n-gauge/?p=442981

 

I'd deliberately avoided too much shunting as the idea is it would probably be mostly for my kids if it was built. Kids and shunting don't really go together! Keeping the parallel tracks seperate on the visual side makes electronics and operation much easier too. It would give them a track each with 2 storage yards going around the figure of 8. Trains can be swapped between the 2 lines going around the 8 via the curve at the front of the layout or the line going straight along the back of the layout. Again, that would make electronics and wiring easier.

 

I've been trying to compress it down to 12ft long using 30 degree crossings rather than 24 degree, but that would also effect train length. I don't mind the fact that trains on one line would suddenly appear for their next turn on the other, and i don't think the kids will be overly concerned about that either.

 

With the storage yards layed out as above, it allows the option of a third track all the way around the outside for if i feel like joining them driving. This is where i do agree that the lack of shunting may become an issue, but hopefully it feels like the main 'yards' are off scene the other side of the river bridge and the other side of the grain loader.

 

Excuse me? 2 tracks crossing 2 tracks equals four diamomd ctossings, surely?

 

diamonds.jpg

 

.......lol, i'm staying out of this one!

[Glorious NSE]

I think you might be mistaking the context Jack - the sidings at the top are 'offscene' staging for the two main lines that run through, there is only one spur in the original design, (5 points, not including the diamonds) - the rest is all running line, two double track main lines crossing at a junction, in a small town somewhere...think somewhere like Rochelle IL... http://binged.it/18OyF70

 

(Edit - SG's responded whilst I was writing that!)

Edited August 23, 2013 by Glorious NSE

[Adrian Wintle]

Excuse me? 2 tracks crossing 2 tracks equals four diamomd ctossings, surely?

 

diamonds.jpg

 

A 'diamond' usually refers to a railroad crossing another railroad, signalled as a single entity. The number of actual track crossings is irrelevant.

This is a photo of the Davenport Diamond on the CN (now GO) Newmarket Sub. http://www.okthepk.ca/dataCprSiding/news/2009/09042703.htm

 

Incidentally, the building to the left (now demolished, so not on Google maps) was quite interesting. There was originally a chord between the CN line and the CP line (the double track), so that corner of the building was faceted to follow the curve. There was also a switch on the chord feeding a small loading bay set into the faceted side of the building.

 

Adrian

Edited August 23, 2013 by Adrian Wintle

[shortliner]

I think this is the old "2 sides speaking the same words with different meanings" syndrome - I think on this side we refer two 2 rails crossing 2 rails as a "Diamond Crossing"

And you are right - I'd not realised at all that there were scenic background inbolved - viewing it as a much enlatged version of TallTims lake crossing all becomes much clearer - I shall crawl back into my burrow!

[Glorious NSE]

Thanks SG - that diagram is a much better explanation of how the various bits of staging connect - and I see what you mean now by there being 3 'circuits', I think I was getting confused thinking the colour coding at each end related to the colour coding at the other end! I think the pairing of staging tracks you've used is pretty clever.

 

Hope you don't take offence, (tin hat ready) but, do you trust your kids to be running 2 trains on the fig-8 circuits, could be expensive (alt: great fun) if they don't pay attention and T-bone the other train?

 

I'd still suggest incorporating at least some additional action that you can do beyond just running trains around, that's a fine aim, but I suspect you (and they) will get bored with it over time - the more variety in moves you can incorporate (without making it look silly) the better. Putting in a spur or (the end of) a small yard doesn't mean you *have* to switch it, but it does give you more options...

[Satan's Goldfish]

I think this is the old "2 sides speaking the same words with different meanings" syndrome - I think on this side we refer two 2 rails crossing 2 rails as a "Diamond Crossing"

And you are right - I'd not realised at all that there were scenic background inbolved - viewing it as a much enlatged version of TallTims lake crossing all becomes much clearer - I shall crawl back into my burrow!

 

No need to crawl back, still need to know whether you think it looks 'right' now you know what you're looking at (My bad for not making the background more obvious). The one thing i do love about this thread is i have no idea what any of the places are you're all talking about!

 

Thanks SG - that diagram is a much better explanation of how the various bits of staging connect - and I see what you mean now by there being 3 'circuits', I think I was getting confused thinking the colour coding at each end related to the colour coding at the other end! I think the pairing of staging tracks you've used is pretty clever.

 

Hope you don't take offence, (tin hat ready) but, do you trust your kids to be running 2 trains on the fig-8 circuits, could be expensive (alt: great fun) if they don't pay attention and T-bone the other train?

 

I'd still suggest incorporating at least some additional action that you can do beyond just running trains around, that's a fine aim, but I suspect you (and they) will get bored with it over time - the more variety in moves you can incorporate (without making it look silly) the better. Putting in a spur or (the end of) a small yard doesn't mean you *have* to switch it, but it does give you more options...

 

Again, my bad, i did all the original in a rush!

 

No offence taken, the kids are rubbish operators! there definatel wouldn't be expensive stock (to start with) on this and the crossing is deliberately away from the board edge. It'll either get them communicating well or go completely Pete Tong, one of them is off at boarding school most of the time anyway, with a little bit of luck the other one may get carted off a good placement there soon as well.

 

As for switching, 1.45 on the video below is where the inspiration for the high covered bit over the tracks in the grain area comes from so i don't really want to fiddle with the layout in the grain terminal. Keeping the switching off the main running lines keeps it clear of the kids too. One obvious place to try and slip in some sidings would be to make the scenic area wider (current width is because of the 11'' width of the 2011 challenge board) and run them infront or behind the 'challenge'. Infront is easier as it could join straight onto the 'outer' loop, but that would mean moving the 2011 board more towards the middle of the layout so the tracks end up in the right place at the end of the layout. With trying to reduce it to 12' long i'm not sure how easy that will be.

 

The other option is going behind the silo backscene for shunting, getting that to the outer track could prove an interesting challenge in itself, and i do like a challenge!

 

[Satan's Goldfish]

Doesn't take me long to start tweaking!

 

The more i look at it, the '2011 board' needs to stay at the far end as it hides the route 'off stage'. the 2 obvious places it leaves for some switching then are behind the mainlines in all the dead space (big red hashed areas below). I'd only want to add spurs to one of the wings but unsure which, and probably not take up all that space. To access them from the outer loop would require a short stretch of route sharing from the fiddleyard, across the diamonds (1 or 4 depending on where you're from!) and then spur off into the yard.

 

 

Now the issues start. I'm going to have a good look back through this thread for a suitable switching layout so that's ok, but with the spur having that proximity to the diamond some conflicts may occour when entering/exiting with all the tracks. I know from watching 'Fostoria Cam' when that was active that some moves did stop for a while and change direction across the diamonds there, but something about it when watching always felt wrong. Or is this the general accepted practice over there?

 

Next is which 'wing' to choose to add the switching layout. The green route goes to by the river. With a bit of re-routing as shown by the light blue lines, the river can be moved to allow some more space. What's a good suggestion for by the river though?! A generic low-relief warehouse for anything to go to? Rail served harbour? Unsure.

 

The other option is the purple route to behind the silos. I'm not sure if this would unbalance the layout visually, but the plus side is if the spurs go off-scene behind the silos then we can pretend any industry is back there without having to model much of it. The other plus point is that the 'track sharing' to access the yard is on the track that isn't shared already with the outer loop if i don't want to drive straight through the grain loader, so both children would have to tolerate movements being stopped to access different areas.

 

That plan is looking very full and complicated like that.....i may have gone too far and started to defeat the point of it...

 

[Adrian Wintle]

You could have a team track or unloading facility off the chord at the front of the layout.

 

If it is ground-level unloading, a lumber yard, or tank car unloading facility it won't obstruct the view of the diamond significantly.

 

Example facilities that could be shrunk/expanded to fit:

Bulk transfer: https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.589542,-79.725729&spn=0.003163,0.005177&t=h&z=18

Tank cars: https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.770846,-79.485832&spn=0.003153,0.005177&t=h&z=18 (and look at the one just south of it)

Pellets: https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.78922,-79.485821&spn=0.003152,0.005177&t=h&z=18 (this one is off a chord at what used to be a diamond)

Lumber yard: https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.863938,-79.510009&spn=0.001574,0.002588&t=h&z=19

Minimalist lumber yard https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.936071,-79.512233&spn=0.001572,0.002588&t=h&z=19

[Talltim]

I would go for Indusfry in the left hatched side and keep the right hatched side plain but sceniced, to give more of a 'railroad in the landscape' feel, and not be tempted to fill it with features, just a hillside and river valley.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Talltim

[shortliner]

OKay - I'vr crawled back out of the burrow - the thing currently bothering me is the amount of room needed for the curves at the ends -Can I suggest a trip to Lidl or similar - they have drinks and similar delivered with big cardboard sheets underneath - these normally get baled up and junked - speak nicely to the staff, and they will keep them for you - the big advantage is that they can be laid down and full size drawings done on them - a length of wood with a nail in one end with inches marked along the length, and a sharp pencil/biro fastened to it with a rubber band will act as a huge compass (tramel bar) and let you draw the centre-lines - it will give you an idea of how big the two ends are going to be, and how much space you have in the middle for the visual part - I know you are working in N, but that is, I think going to be fairly large. Hand drawing them on, tends to give a false impression - a bit like things hand drawn on the back of envelopes - the idea is there, but in practice it turns out way, way bigger!

Best

Jack

Edited August 23, 2013 by shortliner

[Satan's Goldfish]

Cheers guys, i was err-ing towards the left too, or just dropping the switching completely until it felt like it needed it! Keep it simple to start. If it's mostly treated as just a 2 track DC line then 'switching' operations would be changing trains from each controlled line to start with. For watching entertainment value, i've always prefered 'trains through scenery' anyway.

 

Jack, i've got loads of 'scrap' a4 paper here (nothing on them, just not all white!), That sounds more like a fun night with sticky tape to me when the wife is out! I know what you mean about and width though. The current 'n' for the kids is on a 2ft x 4ft board using mostly minitrix track. As an oval, the radius 1 minitrix curves leave enough space outside them for 2 more tracks on each side of the 2ft board (or enough for a 3 track oval). If the boards for this plan were 2ft 6in wide at the ends, then using the minitrix geometry still that should leave enough space for 5 tracks going around, or a combined total of the front and back tracks of '10'. Again using minitrix set track and curved points, the 5 front and 5 rear ratio could be changed to 3 front and 7 rear.

 

Drawing it all down full sized does sound like a fun night in. The kids layout currently has a 30 degree minitrix crossing with quite long legs so i'm inclined to try with that angle, sourcing 3 smaller legged Atlas 30 degree crossings and chopping the legs down on the minitrix for the final one. Alternatively (and less tight of me!) i get 4 Atlas crossings and let the kids keep there current 2x4 as it is for the moment. I don't think i can get it down to 12ft and retain the same 'feel', but if the end boards end up 2ft6in wide then i don't want them longer than 4ft either. The centre board could have a little more length to make up the difference i suppose as it's not as wide.

 

Finally, with the back scenes low enough it could be operated from the front in the home environment with gaps at the end to see what the train is in which fiddle siding......sounds like a good selling point to the wife for it not taking up much space anyway.

 

As the domestic situation stands and with my Warren Lane commitments, i can potentially see more being done for this than OO stuff for the next couple of years.