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Good manners


David Bigcheeseplant

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If you've got a Sentinel card, quite a few preserved railways will accept that as ID and quite often offer some form of discount. I mean don't get over excited, its usually 20% off, but it is the thought that counts, and if there is a friendly booking clerk I enjoy the day more. And of course spend quite a lot in book shops or on the shop at Sheringham that sells O gauge stuff!

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Some years back, I used to drive at Brecon Mountain Railway. halfway up the bank from Pontsticill to Pant, we had a large oak tree. Whilst going up the bank, a photographer had clambered out on a bough of the tree, and was trying to photograph train, whilst we went underneath him. Any branches in the way of the 'shot' had been hacked off, and thrown down towards the cess.

 

I managed to stop the train, unfortunately with the chimney underneath said unfortunate 'photter', and told him to stop being a silly bu**er, and get down. Whilst getting down, he was screaming abuse at me, and said I would be 'reported'.

 

He did indeed 'report' me. The gaffer asked him if he had his ticket. No ticket?, then P*ss Off'.....

 

Another time; "Can I ride on the roof?" Err, no you cant.... "C'mon mate, its only a little train......"

 

Running round always had its moments, as people would stand in the two foot, to get a photo of the locomotive 'head on'.

 

Regardless of hobby or creed, some people need an exclusion zone when they leave the house.

 

Ian

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If you've got a Sentinel card, quite a few preserved railways will accept that as ID and quite often offer some form of discount. I mean don't get over excited, its usually 20% off, but it is the thought that counts, and if there is a friendly booking clerk I enjoy the day more. And of course spend quite a lot in book shops or on the shop at Sheringham that sells O gauge stuff!

Thanks Boris!

 

Any discount in my case would simply mean more money to spend on books in station shops! :D

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Most offer a dicount on production of an RST pass, or a card identifying you as a working member of another preserved railway. Mind you I always end up spending far more in the shops (or the real ale bar) than the train fare would amount to so I reckon they tend to be better of from it!

 

The ATOC Staff Travel website lists all the Railways which offer any sort of Privs or reductions for holders of Staff Travel Cards and in my experience (admittedly limited to a very small sample) there are no problems whatsoever if you present your Staff Travel Card and ask for a Priv when booking a ticket. And on the one occasion when I asked but they didn't do Privs the answer was a polite 'no' followed by an equally polite 'they don't offer them for us so why should we offer them for you?' (which is eminently reasonable in my view).

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I paid a visit to a preserved railway yesterday and was directly in receipt of the hostile and abrupt attitude of two 'volunteers' in two separate incidents. Both incidents seemed to reflect an attitude that the public were an inconvenience whilst they ran 'their' railway. I must stress that I wasn't doing anything I shouldn't be, in fact quite the reserve as I was a 'model visitor'.

 

However it is relevant to say that I have spoken to the railway's General Manager at length today and it isn't the first time that the attitude has been apparent and the complaint will, I'm sure, be appropriately acted upon to hopefully ensure other visiting public are not similarly annoyed. I was pleased to hear that the GM is striving for good standards of service and understands the importance of repeat business to the operation.

 

Hopefully it does pay to make an appropriate complaint to the right ears with the right intentions.

 

However an observed cameo could go some way to explaining why the staff may look down on members of the public. Several Community Payback 'volunteers' had just finished doing a good job of washing down one side of a rake of coaches on the opposite platform and were sluicing off the platform. Along comes grandma, mother and a young girl. The young girl asked what they were doing to which the mother replies to the little girl and grandma "I think they must have had a dead body and they're cleaning up". cool.gif

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Agree the lads at Tanfield are a very welcoming bunch of people went round sheds had all questions answered good train ride. LMSFOREVER

Visited Tanfield during a cycling trip a few years ago expecting to see nothing move - midweek during school term. Unexpectedly lots of people about, it turned out they had a charter running, so we decided to stop and see it. The man at the station even made us tea and coffee while we waited and told us about the line, then directed us to see loads of good stuff hidden away round the corner. Donation was well over the cost of a cup of tea and probably nearer what a train ride would have been. It sometimes pays to be nice to visitors (as long as they are not creating a nuisance or hazard)

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Visited Tanfield during a cycling trip a few years ago expecting to see nothing move - midweek during school term. Unexpectedly lots of people about, it turned out they had a charter running, so we decided to stop and see it. The man at the station even made us tea and coffee while we waited and told us about the line, then directed us to see loads of good stuff hidden away round the corner. Donation was well over the cost of a cup of tea and probably nearer what a train ride would have been. It sometimes pays to be nice to visitors (as long as they are not creating a nuisance or hazard)

 

I've had a similar experience at Tanfield, having turned up on a non running day, they can't do enough for you. I think I was there about 5 hours and got to see some of the amazing collection of stock they have buried away in nooks and crannies. I've been there loads over the years, and I've never had a bad visit yet. Turning the tables, I had two different guys come up to me two days ago and say "I'm building a model of XXX, can I go and take some photos and measure up please?". Usual response, if you haven't bought a train ticket, do you mind popping a few pence in the donation box on the way out if I lend you a hi-vis and escort you over there. One chap started effing and blinding and became abusive, all he got was asked to leave the premises, the other bloke reached into his wallet and put £50 on the mantlepiece - and then refused to take it back when I tried to tell him I only meant a few coppers!

 

It's strange, the two different attitudes, I suppose if you get more of the former and fewer of the latter you are going to get quite jaded rather quickly!

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.....Another time; "Can I ride on the roof?" Err, no you cant.... "C'mon mate, its only a little train......"....

 

The place to do that type of thing is in India / Pakistan / Bangladesh, where your punter would doubtless be able to roof-ride to his heart's content... :lol:

 

 

....Regardless of hobby or creed, some people need an exclusion zone when they leave the house.

 

That may not be enough. Sterilisation would help, thogh.

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Had a family day out at the Bodmin & Wenford last Sunday. £35 for a family all-day rover ticket, including unlimited rides in the brake van, which was being propelled by 'Alfred'.

 

Whilst on the train, the guard suggested we become members of the preservation society - only £25 per anum for a family ticket , which allows for two free day passes during the year, and 20% discount on every other fare.

 

So we've joined.

 

The point is, following the earlier threads about discounts for railway employees, we can all get discounts on the preserved railways, just by joining. Worth a thought, eh ?

 

Stu

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The point is, following the earlier threads about discounts for railway employees, we can all get discounts on the preserved railways, just by joining. Worth a thought, eh ?

 

 

 

AND you get to keep the railway going, keep up to date with all the goings on, and you can become a volunteer.

:D

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Hello All,

 

in all my time in this daft hobby of ours, in visiting a lot of P/R I've never had a bad time [or a bad word said to me].

 

About the only time that I can think of was on a main line steam run. When "I" had asked if "i" could get on the footplate, yes was the reply, so "I" got on and had a good time about 5mins.. The driver came back on the footplate and asked me to leave and "I" was about to do so and a twit (I was going to say something else) just climbed on to the footplate and stopped me from leaving it. "I" got a bit of an ear bending for it until it was pointed out to the driver that "I" had permission to be on the footplate and this other twit had stopped me getting off, the driver did say sorry to me.

 

It just goes to show that it's the morons that get us all tared with the same brush.

 

Another time I was at Manchester and a steam special came in and was going back to Carnforth, so I asked if I could ride back with it (beats a D.M.U.) yep was the reply just drop a £5 donation in the box. I got to Carnforth and went up to the loco and one of my mates was the driver, get on the footplate OzzyO so on to the footplate and in to steam town we went and turned the loco. The bu99er won't give me a ride back to the K.&W.V.R. though.

 

Good days

OzzyO.

 

PS. I've always asked if I can get on the footplate and I don't think that I have been turned down unless the train was about to depart, if it was about to depart I'd have wanted to be on it any way.

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Shouldn't you wait to be invited to go on the footplate?

 

 

I had asked for permission to go on to the footplate. That to my mind is the same thing, I got a yes.

 

The other twit (read t##T), did not even ask to get on the footplate. When I asked him to get off the loco so I could get off, he just said to me I just want some more photos!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That is what I'm saying.

 

OzzyO.

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I had asked for permission to go on to the footplate. That to my mind is the same thing, I got a yes.

It's not the same thing though - being invited and asking to attend/access somewhere are quite different.

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It's not the same thing though - being invited and asking to attend/access somewhere are quite different.

 

Regardless, the point is that that he politely asked and was thereupon invited, rather than forcefully/illegally intruding.

As the saying goes; "if you don't ask, you don't get".

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Speaking as a NYMR Fireman, nothing wrong in asking at all, and I always try to accommodate if possible and the Driver is willing, however if you get told "NO" please don't take it to heart, the Footplate can be quite a busy place as we don't get a lot of time to run round, take water, couple up and prepare the fire for the return journey, sometimes there just is'nt time. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who think that because we are a steam railway, that we are a novelty, and as we are about to depart from a station at our correct departure time, they will come runing up the platform waving their arms saying "don't go yet, my husband/ brother / farther etc is just parking the car and will only be a minute", I'd love to see them try this at Kings Cross.

 

J.P.

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Regardless, the point is that that he politely asked and was thereupon invited, rather than forcefully/illegally intruding.

As the saying goes; "if you don't ask, you don't get".

But it's a working railway, albeit not the mainline, so I think it's better to wait to be invited rather than ask as it's someone's working area. You wouldn't ask the driver of a 158 at your local station would you? Or maybe this was just I was brought up?

 

I was invited into New bridge 'box on the NYMR last summer after the signaller saw me taking photos - I was very pleased to take up the inivation! But I wouldn't for a minute have presumed to ask to go up.

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But it's a working railway, albeit not the mainline, so I think it's better to wait to be invited rather than ask as it's someone's working area. You wouldn't ask the driver of a 158 at your local station would you?

 

When comparing preserved/modern traction you are unfairly comparing two very different scenarios. Duration of station stops, available space and company regulation are very different.

Besides, why on earth would someone want to gaze within the distinctly uninspiring and dare I say boring interior of the broom cupboard, sorry cab, of an Express Sprinter?

 

Or maybe this was just I was brought up?

 

I was brought up on the notion that if you have a request/interest (in anything), then the done thing is to politely ask the appropriate individual and go from there. Obviously, a certain amount of common sense/courtesy is essential, especially regarding whether the time/place/circumstances are appropriate.

The worst that can possibly happen is an answer in the negative, but at least you will part with the knowledge that you did at least try.

 

I was invited into New bridge 'box on the NYMR last summer after the signaller saw me taking photos - I was very pleased to take up the inivation! But I wouldn't for a minute have presumed to ask to go up.

 

Steam tours/preserved railways exist because individuals wish to pay to see/ride behind heritage traction, logic therefore dictates that many of those same individuals will wish to inspect said traction if that opportunity is available. Everyone, crews included, know this to be the case, and it is normal and indeed expected that if you are rostered for a footplate turn, then passengers/interested individuals will ask to come up for a look.

If time/operations permit, then there is generally no problem with that (within reason).

Your posting(s) tend to imply that to make a courteous, polite and very common request is somehow out of order/impolite, I just fail to see why.

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It's becuase I feel to ask is intruding, being invited is very different indeed.

 

Comparing the real railway with preserved railways isn't always fair but in this case it involves the operational aspects which are covered by the same rules. And I have heard of various instances of enthusiasts asking if they can 'have a look' at or in various things on the national network - manual boxes seem to be a favourite.

 

Crews will, of course, be aware that people are interested in what's running but I'd say it's best to leave it to them to ask people to view. Also if things are going wrong your request may be refused and looking at it in a practical way, that's only going to upset or offend isn't it? Which is unfair on the crew or staff concerned in my view.

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Your posting(s) tend to imply that to make a courteous, polite and very common request is somehow out of order/impolite, I just fail to see why.

 

Must admit I'm struggling with that as well.

 

. Also if things are going wrong your request may be refused and looking at it in a practical way, that's only going to upset or offend isn't it?

 

Depends on the person doing the requesting, doesnt it. I'm not sure that comparisons in 'the way I was brought up' are especially helpful, FWIW I'm probably more assertive than either of my parents but a polite request, politely declined = no great problem AFAIC; it works in most walks of life, and I think most reasonable folk would see it that way

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I think we're beginning to go round in circles, if it's not bad manners to suggest it.

 

 

 

It's not bad manners at all, thanks JP, Bon Accord & Pennine MC.

All I will now say is if you don't ask you don't get.

 

OzzyO.

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It's not bad manners at all, thanks JP, Bon Accord & Pennine MC.

All I will now say is if you don't ask you don't get.

A polite request is certainly not bad manners, of course. It's just that some of us would rather "hang around and hope" than confront someone who is probably busy and may have real things on his/her mind. Traincrew and signallers on preserved lines have exactly the same responsibilities as paid staff on the Big Railway.

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A polite request is certainly not bad manners, of course. It's just that some of us would rather "hang around and hope" than confront someone who is probably busy and may have real things on his/her mind. Traincrew and signallers on preserved lines have exactly the same responsibilities as paid staff on the Big Railway.

 

Very much my view Ian although I have asked occasionally about getting onto the footplate on a preserved/heritage etc railway. As far as signalboxes are concerned my attitude has always been that if I am outside and showing an interest and am invited in then fair enough and happy to take advantage of the offer but otherwise the place is private and the Signalman might well be busy or have some other reason - such as being a recent arrival in the job - for not wanting, or wanting to be embarassed by, visitors. In fact the only time I have not asked the Signalman if I can go into a signalbox is when it has been one which I am in charge of and I'm there on official business; I wouldn't have even dreamt of taking any non-railway visitor into one of my 'boxes without first asking the signalman if he was agreeable. And when making visits to 'boxes out of my own area, even on official business, I would first explain to the Signalman who I was and ask if it was ok to come in (ok so they could perhaps hardly refuse to allow a Regional Officer to visit their 'box but it was, at the least, a matter of courtesy to acknowledge that it was their 'box, just the same I think as - in various posts - my boss politely asking if he could come into my office).

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