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Good manners


David Bigcheeseplant

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I have been away down on the south coast for a few days, I decided to visit the Isle of Wight on Saturday and made a trip to the steam railway, no trains were running and nothing was in steam, but as the place was open decided to look round, the only person who from the railway who seemed to be in attendance was a chap in the shop, who had his head down building a model lorry on the counter, when I asked him some questions as what loco would be in steam the next day, the response without raising his head was ???Don??™t know, whatever is in steam tomorrow??? totally uninterested in that I would possibly spend some money in the shop or on the railway.

 

Now I know that most preservation railways are run by volunteers but really those who are customer facing really should understand that good manners and taking to visitors is worthwhile in the long run. In the end I walked away without buying anything or putting in the donations box.

 

I will go back at some point but how many general visitors would get put off on returning to any steam railway if that was their first experience.

 

David

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Had a very friendly visit there on a quiet Monday morning just over a month ago so I guess it's who you meet on which day. Obliging ladies on the ticket office, shop desk and affable platform staff; ended up spending quite a bit on books in the shop.

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I've always tried to give good service all the time unless they annoyed me. I know a couple of Booking Office people came off obnoxious like that guy you mentioned. Of course, we didnt have the problem of which loco was in steam, we only had one at the time. But still, its clear the guy doesn't really care.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was over there back in August and poped over to the steam railway, cant really say that i had much of a dealing with the staff but when ive been there before they have seemed hopefull.

 

If you would like any pictures of the steam engines in steam there i have a few that ive took on various visits.

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Unfortunately with volunteers very thin on the ground, 'Heritage Railways' have to take what they can. In the years ( 1986 - 97 ) I was involved at Swanage we had a few characters that lacked somewhat in the communication skills while working in the railway shop, but the railway was glad of whatever help it could get. I'm not excusing it, but it's a chance you take, unfortunate as it can be, you just have to be thick skinned sometimes, the railway needs the money.

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As you say, sometimes lines don't always get much choice. I am a volunteer (on the mainland) and have served both in white collar 'front-man' roles and in overalls. I've had that question thrown at me several times and my usual honest answer would often be "I haven't a clue", but I'd try and put it tactfully. It's not the visitor's fault!

 

Unless it's an emergency, or you are trying to prevent an accident, and just don't have the time for the social niceties, there's no excuse for not treating visitors with consideration and courtesy.

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Only twice have I received a distinctly cold welcome, once at the Lakeside and Haverthwaite, once at the Industrial Museum near Ayr. The latter was a chalk and cheese affair, at the end with most of the locos and rolling stock it was OK, but at the other end you would have thought we had come to ransack the place, a woman rushing around closing gates and locking doors upon seeing us arrive. We were going to have lunch in their cafe, but decided to carry on into Ayr instead.

 

Most places are very welcoming - special mention to the following, all who went out of their way to help us see and photograph what we wanted

 

Boness and Kinneil railway

Leighton Buzzard narrow gauge

Bowes railway centre

Stephenson railway museum

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I had a totally different experience when I visited the Spa Valley Railway HQ at Tun Wells during the summer.

I arrived too early for the first train, but the chap I asked offered to show me round the shed, in truth he couldn't have been more helpful.

 

Sean, if you're reading this, thanks mate!

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Knowing David I'm not suggesting that he falls into the category which I'm describing but boy you get some real knobs visiting the railway. I've volunteered on the MHR for over 20 years and have encountered more oddballs, misfits, people that only their mother could have loved, downright rude and objectionable tw*ts and certifiable lunatics amongst our visitors than I could ever have hoped for anywhere else. They can be at times entertaining, annoying, objectionable and loathsome. Some seem to think that because they pay their tenner or whatever then they own the railway and everything and everybody on it. I've been verbally abused and threatened with physical violence because punters can't get their own way, especially when they want to wander over running tracks to get a photo.

 

I can understand peoples' frustrations when it comes to uncooperative volunteers, but is it ever a two way street!

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I've volunteered on the MHR for over 20 years and have encountered more oddballs, misfits, people that only their mother could have loved, downright rude and objectionable tw*ts and certifiable lunatics amongst our visitors than I could ever have hoped for anywhere else.

 

Yep, that's our hobby. You only left out rucksacks and BO :lol:

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Knowing David I'm not suggesting that he falls into the category which I'm describing but boy you get some real knobs visiting the railway. I've volunteered on the MHR for over 20 years and have encountered more oddballs, misfits, people that only their mother could have loved, downright rude and objectionable tw*ts and certifiable lunatics amongst our visitors than I could ever have hoped for anywhere else. They can be at times entertaining, annoying, objectionable and loathsome. Some seem to think that because they pay their tenner or whatever then they own the railway and everything and everybody on it. I've been verbally abused and threatened with physical violence because punters can't get their own way, especially when they want to wander over running tracks to get a photo.

 

I can understand peoples' frustrations when it comes to uncooperative volunteers, but is it ever a two way street!

 

 

Hmm just described every model railway show Ive run or visited as well. Plus the other two criteria that Ian mentions of course.

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at the avon valley, my favourite was a chap who asked me to get off the footplate for his photos because I was wearing orange... The fact I was firing had nothing to do with it... the crew made sure I was public side of the loco for the next few runs...

 

I really must get back to it... <_<

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I'm glad others have made that observation on personal hygiene at shows etc, how would soap on a rope do shaped into a train what would do better steam or diesel?

On a serious note its nice to be nice met a lot of nice enthusiast??™s who embrace this hobby and eager to pass on their knowledge.

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I'm a volunteer on the Llangollen Railway and have been for a few years now.

 

And yes you do meet some "oddballs" and so on but you've just got to be nice to everybody and it does pay off too...even if it's other volunteers too.

 

I was travelling back from Glyndyfrdwy to Llangollen with John Rutter (current Llangollen Railway webmaster - as the both of us are working on a new sparkly version of the Llangollen Railway website for 2010) and I was introduced to the Ticket Inspector (TI) by John as being a member of the diesel group....next thing he says "Diesel group hey, ill get back to you in a minute", so he carried on checking tickets and doing his duties and then came back to me and said "do you know who I am...", I said sorry no I don't I'm afraid, he laughed and said that there weren't many people who don't know who he is.....and then introduced himself as Ivor Bufton, chairman of the "Growler Group" (http://www.thegrowlergroup.org.uk/).

 

GE

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I make a living from preserved railways, and have come across some absolute extremes of attitude over the years. My absolute favourite of all time has got to be the Severn Valley, turning up at Bridgenorth one day with the wife, not knowing it was a gala, just wanting a ride on the train, I went to the BO and asked if, as a working railwayman with a PT card, would I get a discount (some railways do, others don't - being quite happy to pay full fare though). The chap in the BO turned to me and said, "it's a gala, if you think you are getting a discount you can f*** off. So I duly F****ed off and spent the money treating the wife to a very pleasant pub lunch and vowing never to return to such an ill mannered railway again.

 

On the other hand, a recent trip to Keighley netted an tour of the new carriage shed, a look at the VCT workshop (the bit behind barriers) and generally a good day out overall. I must say I've been to the KWVR several times and have never found a grumpy or less than cheerful member of staff, and have always really enjoyed myself - same at Embsay.

 

I must say though, having seen/talked to some folks on preserved railways, there are a strange number who don't grasp the basic principle behind their operation: No customers=No railway

 

And then of course there is the wonderful incident where I dared to stop one photographer beating seven bells out of another with a monopod within a couple of feet of a running line, and being reported to the police by this individual because I dared to catch the monopod and disarm him when said item was swung at me when I politely asked him to desist what he was doing.

 

I think it's something about wheels - if it's got wheels it seems to attract a small number of people who probably shouldn't be outside without a responsible adult.

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I must say though, having seen/talked to some folks on preserved railways, there are a strange number who don't grasp the basic principle behind their operation: No customers=No railway

 

From my own experience the more committed volunteer is lacking interpersonal skills most of the time

 

 

I think it's something about wheels - if it's got wheels it seems to attract a small number of people who probably shouldn't be outside without a responsible adult.

 

But of course, buses and trains bring out the more unusual ones, be it at a rally/gala/openday or exhibition

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I was once screamed at by a gala day photter at Levisham for the appalling crime of trying to board a train while he was photographing it.

 

 

I recently read a comment about social skills in various contexts which seemed almost too logical for me in its obviousness. It basically said that different interests and topics will usually draw like-minded people - not only where the interest as such is concerned, but also with regards to specific ways of thinking. That is to say, topics of a more technical nature - such as railways or indeed computers - appear to attract mostly people with a technical, or indeed technocratic, mindset, as in knowing only absolutes and few, if any, nuances (or tolerances, if you will) in between - whereas topics which could be said to be centred on things like arts, society and culture will most likely attract mostly those people who do think in nuances and are not quick to make any final and invariable judgement. In addition, I could imagine that people with the first of these two ways of thinking may tend to think that things such as courtesy and empathy have little relevance - at least more than the other category.

 

Also, I believe railfanning as a whole is a hobby which many people who are not "in" it consider to be rather weird in nature, and thus - knowingly or unconsciously - treat railfans with reservation. This, in turn, may cause a good number of railfans to feel misunderstood or even downright rejected - and believe me, I am speaking from my own experience here. Finally, I would think that quite a few railfans may respond to such treatment with an attitude much like "an eye for an eye" - or, as we say in Germany, "if you hurt my granny, I'll hurt your granny" - this as a way of defending what is most dear to them. Of course, the same basic principle may also apply to computer enthusiasts.

 

I hope this was at least somewhat comprehensible - it's still early Sunday morning after all ;) . And, of course, I do not intend to generalize, so please do not read my posting as if I did.

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I was once screamed at by a gala day photter at Levisham for the appalling crime of trying to board a train while he was photographing it.

 

I find the "come here and say that approach" to be rather amusing with some of these more extreme individuals, usually soliciting an apology when they realise that a line has been crossed!

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I find the "come here and say that approach" to be rather amusing with some of these more extreme individuals, usually soliciting an apology when they realise that a line has been crossed!

 

Yes that, or just to say 'yeah' and totally disregard the request, even better to ignore them totally and wait to see if they have the kahunas to come over to your face and say it. My favoured reply though is 'Ive paid my fare, I can stand here if I wish'

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One of the reasons I have done voluntary work on preserved railways and the principal reason I wouldn't want to drive or fire or be on the platform in any way is to get away from the s.....g, b.....y public. Give me a shunting yard any day.

 

I would agree though that many volunteers lack social skills.

 

I always remember an Irish truck salesman of my acquaintance saying that 'there is no taste in nothing' and if one does something for 'nothing' then the absence of commercial acumen is probably a given.

 

My wife is a charity shop manager (paid) and even she struggles with motivating volunteers. Some work well and others turn up when they feel like it and stand about gossiping. It is very hard to tell the difference.

 

 

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I too work on a preserved railway and I feel that the best people to really annoy you are photographers, especially the ones that give nothing towards the heritage movement.

 

My favourtie story is when I was on public land next to the West Somerset Railway with my camera ready to catch Bittern! A rather well known dvd producer then proceeded to walk towards me with his video camera, (on the lineside with his pass) and positioned his camera right next to me. He gave me a quick glance and demanded that I proved to him that my camera didnt make a noise when taking a photo so that his shot wouldnt be ruined!, Bittern passed and I walked off as he continued to film, he then in a sarcastic manner shouted "thanks mate" a proceeded to walk back the station, alongside the public foot-path I was following. When our two paths met again, I was shocked to see him walking on the edge of the sleepers, on his mobile phone, looking at the ground!! a subtle (you do that again and I will make sure you dont get your lineside pass renewed comment was made) and I haven't encountered anymore trouble :P

 

Ironic thing was I was in uniform!!

 

Some people dont learn do they

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From my own experience the more committed volunteer is lacking interpersonal skills most of the time

 

Not so. I am very committed, and am very skilled at um , interpersonalising. It's simple, I'm just grumpy.

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