Jump to content
Forum software upgrades have taken place today and we will be monitoring performance as it could take a while to get back up to speed.

Metr0Land

Some LT Wagons

Recommended Posts

Now the longer evenings are with us I’m playing catch up. I’ve started with a couple of wagons, and practising weathering.

 

I was never happy with the colour of the Bachmann 3 plank wagons as the grey seems much too dark. I think LT used this colour in late 60’s and early 70’s but not sure these wagons lasted that long.

Bachmann3plankoriginal.jpg

 

The one in the LT museum is much lighter, but of course is in museum condition.

3plankLTmuseum.jpg

 

I managed to pick up a couple of unpainted Bachmann 3 planks like this, to form the basis of a couple of wagons. They’re built to a different diagram from the LT Museum one but it was close enough for me.

Bachmann3plankunpainted.jpg

 

In order to get a sense of a well used wagon, I painted black undercoat on the sides, and a top coat of Testors Polly Scale CSX Gray. I built up the layers of dirt and brake dust etc with thin washes of acrylic browns and greys, and some powders.

 

The LONDON TRANSPORT titles on the LT museum wagon are quite small, but the smallest on the Modelmaster 4669 sheet are as shown. On balance I felt it better to have these than nothing.

3plankFinisheda.jpg

3plankFinishedend.jpg

3plankFinished.jpg

 

Being on a roll, I had a pair of Heljan Dogfish I’d bought for £10 each on Ebay (with free p/p).

Dogishoriginal.jpg

 

Unfortunately the LT ballasts were more like Catfish but I wanted something NOW, so I fiddled with these for the time being. It’s numbered in the LT series (don’t write in - it’s my layout and just for fun). I changed the footsteps to be more like the LT ones as they were quite obvious on the BR version. The steps aren’t quite the same as LT Catfish but they’ll do me for now. The more I do, the more I seem to have left on my ‘to do’ list……

Dogishfinished.jpg

The hoppers were sprayed grey primer, and then CSX Gray on top. Outside I then put a thin wash of Polly Scale Aged White, then powdered with fine grey dust, plus of course a bit of brake dust around the axle boxes. The fleet name was too large to place centrally as per LT ballasts, but again I felt it better to have something rather than nothing.

 

Notice that the ballast wagon looks a somewhat ligher shade of grey than the wooden one, but they both have the same topcoat colour of CSX Gray - it’s just the undercoat and weathering washes that make then look different.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 1979 edition of the London Underground Rolling Stock book still lists BW214 (and BW4), both 10 ton ballast wagons ex-Metropolitan Railway dating from 1897.

The write-up says that those two were still to be found in the Neasden PW sidings.

It also says that until recently, there were five match wagons and two wagons for cleaning tunnel telephone lines, all of which dated from 1893. Cut up in 1978.

Also pictured, F303, an LNER-origin bogie flat wagon of 1907, still in use in 1979 in a stores train from Neasden to Queen's Park.

Amazing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks - colour pics of this sort of thing seem to be like hen's teeth!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks - colour pics of this sort of thing seem to be like hen's teeth!

The pics in that book were quite muddy B&W, so no real help.

Just found the 1980 book, which continues to list those two BW opens, as used for storing p.way material at Neasden. It adds that LT inherited over 200 of them from the Met in 1933, most being scrapped in the 50s/60s.

Edited by eastwestdivide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there.

Good to see other LT modellers, nice adaption of the LT 4 wheel wagons.

Just a tip, the wagons were wooden framed, i know more difficult to obtain but worth wile with a bit of bashing. Also the single central door knee is to an LMS pattern, replacing with two wooden ones where the lines of bolts are o the side would improve it further.

Further reference see the south eastern finecast model of the wagons.

 

On the subject of F303, any chance of seeing the pick. i'm always fascinated by the odd LT wagons that they bodged and acquired!

Cheers

Edited by London cambrian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there.

Good to see other LT modellers, nice adaption of the LT 4 wheel wagons.

Just a tip, the wagons were wooden framed, i know more difficult to obtain but worth wile with a bit of bashing. Also the single central door knee is to an LMS pattern, replacing with two wooden ones where the lines of bolts are o the side would improve it further.

Further reference see the south eastern finecast model of the wagons.

 

 

Thanks, I'll probably return to these later. The priority at the mo' is to get some engineering stock that looks reasonably ok but doesn't take overmuch effort. So much to do - so little time!

 

I've got an SEF white metal Met Brake Van which weighs a ton, so not entirely keen to use their open wagons as well due to the weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know the feeling.

I've one of their e classes which has stalled building, but i am dubious as to what it'll even haul. Have an open and brake van as well, the open isnt too bad but have never used it.

Theres gotta be a kit for a wagon similar in design to the met ones more accurate than the Bachmann steel framers. Midland low side opens were virtually identical...

 

LC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting post, have been pondering what to do about the ballast stock, as I'll need some for West Cromwell Road. The 'dogfish' looks good to me, as does the 3plank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some time I’ve wanted a Hurst Nelson brake van or two for my layout but my scratch building skills aren’t up to it. Smallbrook Studio do a resin kit (also available from Radleys) but it needs an awful lot of mods to make it the right diagram for post war layouts.

 

HurstNelsonpacket.jpg

 

Here you can see the sides and ends. Planking is horizontal on the model and needs to be vertical - also the side doors don’t exist on the LT 1930’s-built versions.

 

Side_and_endsbeforework.jpg

 

I had a go at trying to cut out all the horizontal planking and replace it with vertical ones. This was my first foray into resin and turned into a disaster. I hadn’t realised it would be so brittle so ended up with lots of little pieces.

 

In order to try and salvage something I bought a Parkside Dundas MR brake van. Although this is too long, by salvaging the lookouts from the resin kit and replacing some of the sides on the MR body I’ve at least got something which looks a bit like a Hurst Nelson van. (Well it does to me anyway). Although it’s too long I’ve tried to keep it proportionately ok.

 

revIMG_5836800px.jpg

revIMG_5835800px.jpg

 

RT models may be doing a Hurst Nelson van in due course but I’m assuming that will be brass (?) and I’ve never done brass before, also I don’t know which diagram they’re thinking of, if indeed they do still have one in mind.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Metroland

 

Hate to brake it to you, but that isnt a hurst nelson, its an earlier metropolitan railway brake van from an LSWR design for the WD. That is a vehicle that was passed onto the LNER in 1937 and as such probably never ran in LT livery, certainly it was never numbered under their system. The hurst nelson was acquired in 1935 to replace Met and mainly District brake vans. The easiest way to tell is the ends are not recessed in on the outsides like that one. They were modified in later life and so began to look quite like the hurst nelsons that they would only have seen for a few years!

 

RTmodels is doing a hurst nelson, its progressing well, i've supplied a load of pictures for him to be modelling it with. Its mostly etch brass but with cast ends to keep weight up.

 

Sorry again Metroland! but then again it is totally your layout!

 

Cheers

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AIUI the 1930's built Hurst Nelson vans were to the same overall dimensions as the earlier Met/WD/LSWR design. Hence the original attempt to hack said van by retaining chassis/roof/outside frames of the ends etc.

 

Possibly my original wording wasn't tight enough as I didn't claim the Smallbrook van was Hurst Nelson just that I wanted one, and started with the Smallbrook kit as kicking off point

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, that explains! Sorry if i misunderstood

 

Board over those recessed ends, if they are recessed as they appear and get rid of the mouldings on the duckets and you'll be right there IMHO

 

post-3595-0-77194900-1333997704_thumb.jpg

 

Cheers

 

Mark

Edited by London cambrian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Board over those recessed ends, if they are recessed as they appear and get rid of the mouldings on the duckets and you'll be right there IMHO

 

 

Cheers

 

Mark

 

Maybe that'll be for the next attempt - almost time for the 'summer break from modelling'. That B557 looks far too clean! They were in a right sorry state in the early 60's though they did get a makeover later on.

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the one on the spa valley in similarly clean, though not the same can be said for the one that burnt out, or this one at acton

 

post-3595-0-77331800-1334001656_thumb.jpg

 

The old braking equipment test vehicle painted in maroon and yellow, as used and ran behind sarah siddons in her later days

Interestingly, efforts are being made to start its restoration, a lot of new wood was lying around last i saw it and asbestos has been removed, so another LT brake van soon

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes ive been working on the drawings again for the hurst nelson brake van which its not far off from sending now.

 

Got the first test build from over a year ago sat in front of me.

 

Hopefully in a few weeks i will get the buffers turned up and the axleboxes/springs made and all sent off for a mould to be made.

 

The kit will actually be in nickel silver as its so much easier to solder than brass and also the paint seem to adhere better to nickel silver than brass.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sounds good Robert.

 

Brass is notoriously bad to adhere primer to without using a proper two part primer that few have access to.

hope to see the fruits of labour soon. be one of the only 4mm stuff I will build! that and the flat.

 

cheers

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lovely to see these wagons in the flesh yesterday Paul.

 

I'm disappointed I didn't grab some snaps of your Panniers though; that finish is truly superb! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to see how some Bachmann and Heljan R-t-R wagons can be used to creat some of LT's engineering wagons. Be nice to see some more LT brake vans apart from a repainted Bachmann BR version. I would love to see a kit of LT's FB.578

 

Julian Sprott

post-9991-0-23436100-1352647828_thumb.jpg

post-9991-0-74821100-1352647841_thumb.jpg

post-9991-0-24396200-1352647869_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone made or tried making the long "GP" General Purpose wagon?

Would love to know more about it. e.g. demensions, bogies etc..

 

 

Tony M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony - the Gloucester-built long general purpose wagons were 65'6" over headstocks, 68' over buffers, 50' bogie centres, 5' bogie wheelbase (diamond frame), 2'6" diameter spoked wheels. The wagons came in two types, a 20T 'rail wagon', and a 30T version with additional sidesheeting for ballast and other materials.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Radley does a resin kit of GP wagons, I started drawing in for etch, but never finished the artwork.

Jon

Edited by jonhall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've already got sat in front a test etch for a 60ft rail wagon which the whitemetal castings are ready for, just need to get the lost wax brass castings done for the stakes and its ready.

 

Some final work needed on the hurst nelson brakevan also, both will be on display at warley once again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Radley does a resin kit of GP wagons, I started drawing in for etch, but never finished the artwork.

Jon

 

Yeah I see Radley do a kit but at £49/pair I think I'll have a go at making one..

Gonna start sketching it up in AutoCAD using photos and the dimensions given from Miss Prism

Should be fun :scratchhead:

 

Regards

Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can feel another cheat coming on (although at present I'm giving priority to scenery which I've neglected far too long).

 

My experiences with resin are not good, but Cambrian kits seem to go together well for me with my 2 left thumbs. They've released a Sturgeon which looks really nice and can be built with/without sides. Although these aren't LT wagons as such, they may find a way onto my layout in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there were two lengths of the long bogie wagons,

 

50ft general wagons, and the longer

60ft one which were designed for carrying rails

 

both types are preserved

 

hopefully richard will provide us with the more common shorter type as well ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.