kramskee Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Hi Mark, As far as I know, the rods are alikeness to s/steel,I rubbed mine down with emery paper and used "Bakers Fluid" to flux all the joints,With a HOT soldering iron I ran along the length and then matched up the two halves gripped along the length to be soldered with smll "Crocodile clips" and heated along the length with a "Pencil Flame" WALLAH !!---ROB Hi Rob, I'm doing the same thing I managed to get the first set of conrods assembled this way but it still proved tricky since I found that the steel "tins" better in some parts more than others. overheating causes it to oxidise and then it's back to scrubbing with some rough sandpaper and starting all over again. I am using a resin cored solder so it's possible that it's not agreeing with the acid flux paste. I'm going to try some plain plumbing solder and see how that works Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Running up coupling rods Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Thanks for your kind comments and I am glad you like it, The tender is scratch built apart for the base and the 'footplate' all the bodywork is from 0.5mm Brass. As I said, I am doing Robert the Devil which retained it’s original GNR tender until scraped in 1963. I just wanted to be different. I've done mine in Doncaster Green. As for the running gear, the only piece I had to replace was one of the long linkages as when I folded it, it broke. I made one out of Brass. However they did send me a replacement part but only after a few weeks had passed by. The main point I found that was missing from the instructions, I don’t remember reading it, was the vertical linkage from the valve linkage to the right-angled link from the crosshead, this needed a joggle to get round the other valve gear. I have had it running on a test bed for at least half an hour with no problems just running the motor in. As for joining the ‘steel’ parts together, rub both sides down with emery cloth to rough them up then use the superglue and add some of the plastic spring clamps and leave over night, I don’t believe they are solderable as the temperatures won’t get high enough. They even stood up to some filing on the edges to make them smooth. I spent some time the other night putting the lining on, very tricky as it stretches and folds under it’s self, I’ll post a photo or 2 this weekend in its current state, lining and all. slimited. slimited I did not have any problem soldering the coupling rods together. I rubbed down the surfaces to be joined, pre-tinned them with 145 degree cored solder and then used phosphoric acid 7% flux whilst holding the two laminates together with aluminium "hair" clips. I did, however, use a "Resistance Soldering Iron" which I built some years ago (this passes a high current through the joint to melt the solder) which does generate considerable heat to melt the "tinning" and ensure a good joint. I do not see, however, why a normal iron of around 75w-100w would not work (anything less is unlikely to have the capacity to deliver an adequate amount of heat), again with plenty of phosphoric acid flux to ensure that the heat is distributed as required. Even a low-cost miniature blowtorch would do the job, being careful not to apply too much heat to avoid "annealing" (softening) the metal. Hope this helps someone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Further to my previous post regarding making the tender body removable from the “undercartâ€, I modified my original ideas and below are posted some pictures showing progress. As you might recall, I replaced the original cast tender body inner panels with replacements from plastic card. I’m not sure why one of the members had a problem with the card peeling away from the tender sides. Styrene card, attached with solvent weld adhesive will attach the two so strongly that attempting to destroy the joint will merely result in the destruction of the tender body. I have found in the past that plastic card with a gloss surface does not glue as well unless the surface is rubbed down first with a little wet-and-dry. My replacements for the original glued brass nuts about which I was unhappy last time around have been replaced with two brass strips, one for each plasticard crosspiece, and these are now bolted from the underneath of the respective cross-piece with countersunk bolts. These brass strips were made out of little 1mm thick strip I had in the “workshop†(i.e. table) and have been drilled and tapped to take the fixing bolts. With both of these in place and the tender body sitting on the “undercartâ€, I marked the fixing holes for the “undercart†and drilled and tapped the brass strips for the bolts to hold the “undercart†to the body. Now I can be sure that the tender body will be held securely to the “undercart†without relying on any plastic-to-metal joints. Photos 1 and 2 should make this approach clear. You may also notice in these two photographs that there is a further plasticard strip at the inside rear of the tender body and an additional two strips of square-section plastic moulding (from the Plastruct range in the UK). The rear strip is actually spaced out a few fractions of a millimetre from the back of the tender with a thin piece of plasticard so that it forms a channel. Into this channel clips a small piece of brass angle which I soldered almost flush (few thou inboard) to the rear of the tender top. My tender body moulding was slightly off-square at one rear corner and this channel and angle serve to hold the tender top hard against the inside rear of the tender hence avoiding any gaps. The two side square sections provide a means whereby the tender top is held securely vertically whilst again removing any tendency for the tender sides to “bow out†and create unwanted gaps. Each of the two Plastruct bars (actually square-section tuibe) is drilled for countersunk bolts and these bolts screw into brass bars soldered to the underside of the tender top and drilled/tapped as necessary. If you also do this don’t forget, As I first did, to space the brass bars inboard of the edges by the thickness of the plasticard inner sides! Having then screwed the Plastruct bars to the brass bars and placed the tender top on position (with the rear angle clipped into the channel mentioned above, I then adjusted to tender top to that it was horizontal where necessary and applied solvent weld between the two Plastruct sections and the plasticard inner sides. Capillary action will draw the solvent in and, after the glue has dried, the tender top can be unbolted/unclipped and finished for detail and painting. Photo 3 shows the brass bars and rear angle soldered in position and Photo4 the tender top screwed into position in the tender body. It all sounds like a fair bit of work (it actually took a couple of hours) but now I have a tender body and tender top between which there are no gaps, the tender top is never going to part company with the tender body, and there are not fragile plastic-to-metal glued joints in sight. Of course, once the plastic tender is glued into position, the tender top is not going to be removable but that was not the reason for the modification anyway. It has also proved helpful to be able to remove the tender top as I wished (I have not glued the tender front in yet), as I had not, at that time, received the various castings from Hachette to complete the tender top. Photos 5, 6, 7 show my completed and primered tender top (the last with it bolted into the tender body). This assembly is entirely soldered, including all the castings. I was unhappy with how little the etched coal rail poked above the tender side which certainly did not seem to be as high as drawings suggest so, instead of soldering the coal rail into holes drilled in the front tunnel casting, I soldered “L-shaped†pieces of fine brass wire (about 0.5 mm I believe) from the underside of the tunnel casting through the drilled holes, and soldered the vertical legs of the coal rail to these, trimming off the excess wire and filing flush at the end. The extra 1mm in height and clearance looks much more the part. As brass does not readily take paint, I have used etched primer on both etched and cast components for some time. In the UK, the larger Halfords stores stock an aerosol form of this which, whilst it costs £10 for a large can and is hence around twice the price of ordinary primer, is worth it in my view to help ensure the final paint stays in place. The paint goes under the name of “U-Pol Acid #8†(red can, silver top) and is actually manufactured in the UK. I can not say whether it is available for our overseas forum members but I am sure that a Google search would locate a suitable substitute in most parts of the globe. The fact that it is in aerosol form means that there is no risk of etching the inside of that lovely airbrush! In fact, the finish from the can is superbly matt with no “orange-peel†effect (any “crackling†in the photos is actually pixellation of the images) . This is despite my spraying the tender top as shown in the photographs in temperatures which some of the more-fortunate contributors to this forum normally associate with the ice-box in their freezer! Only time will tell if the product leaves up to its claims but it is marketed for professional car body repairers (though not obviously in aerosol form) so should do the business. The next two photographs, 8 and 9, show my tender “undercart†at present stage of progress. As before, all is soldered, including the axleboxes (a good iron, low-melt solder, phosphoric acid 7% flux and plenty of care!) and is just now awaiting the buffers which I assume/hope will arrive in the next shipment. It is sometimes frustrating that Hachette seem to jump around the build from one thing to another as I would much rather have received the tender buffers (which would mean that I could prime and paint the “undercart†than the loco buffers as there is still quite a bit to do to the loco body. Still, patience is a virtue and perhaps essential for a partwork stretching over two and a half years! You may notice the semi-circular slots filed out on the inside of the wheel openings on the last photo and these are to clear the hornblock adjustment screws for my sprung tender chassis – these would not be appropriate for a chassis built using the supplied components. The last three photographs show my tender chassis which has sideframes cut from brass strip and joined with two turned brass spacers and the flat spacers removed from the original etch supplied in the partwork. My chassis is sprung with Hobby Holiday’s hornblocks (which do incorporate roller-bearings fot the axles) so is very free-running. I have modified these for “keeper-plates†bolted from the bottom and used lighter springs so that I do not have to source a small black hole of sufficient mass to compress the springs supplied! In photos 10 and 11, the brass bolts which adjust the ride height of the chassis can be seen. In line with information from the forum, the wheels now carry the polished rims for 1928 condition rather lined as later in the loco’s life. Cleaning off the paint from the rims did, however, demonstrate that the etched primer was performing as required! Like most other I hope, I am enjoying this build now that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and do find some satisfaction in thinking out solutions to some of the problems a multi-material kit will always produce. It is a fact that such a kit will never fall together no matter how tight the production tolerances and skill of the tool and pattern-makers and I am prepared to accept some “fettling†in return for a cost-effective way of owning a pretty good model. Sorry for the length of this post (yes it is boring isn't it!) but I'm getting quite inspired by some of the great models others on the forum are creating. Does anyone have any new on what bits are coming next, i.e. issues 112-115? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 slimited Interested to here about the lining. I found that the wheel transfers (this was before I found out from the forum about the 1928 livery) were the very devil to apply and I had to cut through the lining at a point on the circumference so that I could get the transfer flat on the wheel rim. Of course, this was all wasted as the loco did not carry the lining on the wheels at that date so all my effort was wasted! Given the size of the tender lining I did anticipate the kind of problems you've encountered. To this end. at the recent Kettering show, I "invested" in some lining transfers from the Historical Model Railway Society (HMRS)stand, which are actually "Pressfix" which, for those unfamiliar with this type, are "sticky" and are laid on the model with the backing sheet still attached. After pressing down with finger pressure, the backing sheet is then soaked with water using a brush and simply slides away. Theire are, unfortunately, two downsides. The first is that the lining is supplied as "corners" and "lines" so each tender side nedds eight pieces in total (4 corners, two vertical and two horizontals). The second is that, not surprisingly, the LNER lining sheet (Reference 5) is not cheaps at around £18. Nonethelsss, the sheet also includes lining for the wheel splashers and should Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 slimited Interested to hear about the lining. I found that the wheel transfers (this was before I found out from the forum about the 1928 livery) were the very devil to apply and I had to cut through the lining at a point on the circumference so that I could get the transfer flat on the wheel rim. Of course, this was all wasted as the loco did not carry the lining on the wheels at that date so those transfers had to come off afterwards anyway!" Given the size of the tender lining I did suspect that there may be problems getting everything nice and square. To this end. at the recent Kettering show, I "invested" in some lining transfers from the Historical Model Railway Society (HMRS)stand, which are actually of a type called "Pressfix". For those unfamiliar with this term, the transfers are "sticky" and are cur out and laid on the model with the backing sheet still attached. After pressing down with finger pressure, the backing sheet is then soaked with water using a brush and simply slides away. Theire are, unfortunately, two downsides. The first is that the lining is supplied as "corners" and "lines" so each tender side nedds eight pieces in total (four corners, two vertical and two horizontals). The second is that, not surprisingly, the LNER lining sheet (Reference 5) is not cheap at around £18. Nonethelsss, also included is lining for the wheel splashers and the sheet is sufficient for severalmodels, so the cost is not too outrageous. Given that I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb by the domestic authorities, I also purchased the LNER lettering sheet (Reference 4) from the same source, again at the Kettering show. This sheet is actually of the "Methfix" type - not sticky this time but the transfer is again cut out and positioned with the backing sheet stil in place and "stuck down" to the model using a solution of methylated spirit and water. The upside is that there is no "carrier film" at all (which did appear to me to be a problem with the Hachette loco numbers), the downside a similar cost to the lining sheet. Given that no kits (or possibly very, very few) are supplied with paint or transfers, it is quite normal to have to buy these items for any model being built. The fact that Hachette have supplied transfers is a bonus one would not normally expect with a kit and so I was not too put out by the additional cost. I am sure that, particularly with the lining, I shall be able to make a better fist of the job than with the waterslide transfers from the partwork. Of course, if any of the members are acquainted with one another, then one sheet of each could be shared to reduce the cost. Regards, Stan Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Concerning the postings about the 1928 livery and the polished handrails, should the handrail knobs also be in steel (polished) condition or were these green? Thanks for any information anyone may have Regards, Stan Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Well done Stan, A good looking tender there,where did you get your "axle spring-thingies"?---ROB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Well done Stan, A good looking tender there,where did you get your "axle spring-thingies"?---ROB Blue Peter Thank you. Both the loco and tender chassis are fitted with axleboxes from Hobby Holidays in the United Kingdom (usual disclaimer). These consist of a CNC-machined brass hornguide with a fold-up etched nickel-silver hornblock carrier into which is inserted a roller-bearing to carry the axle. I drilled and tapped the hornguide "legs" 12BA to take a keeper plate made from some scrap brass - you can see these on the unerside of the tender marked with coloured dots (to make sure I got them back on the right hornguide). The "ride height" is adjusted using a 12BA brass bolt (supplied) screwed into a 12BA nut (supplied) soldered to the top of the hornguide. I did find that the original springs were somewhat too strong for the lightweight tender body but Phil at Hobby Holidays supplied me with some of the springs used in Slater's sprung hornblocks (£2.95 for 10) and these were much lighter. I did have to remove the thread from the end of each 12BA bolt so that the spring would be a sliding fit over the bolt. It all sounds much more involved than it actually is and I shall certainly use these products in future models. Hobby Holidys intend, I believe, to enhance the range in the future to provide a horguide, again CNC-machined, but based on a brass casting carrying the strengthening webs found on the prototype and that will make an excellent product even better. Like the best things in life, they are not cheap (especially for a six-coupled engine with an eight-wheel tender - ) and are supplied in pairs for one axle, but as a modeller from a P4 background where all my locos were sprung or beam-compensated. I was reluctant to do less in 7mm. I'm sure the extra weight of a 7mm model, especially running on non Scale7 track, reduces the need for such sophistication but the roller bearings certainly make a considerable improvement over plain brass bushes. Nonetheless, this enhancement will not be for everyone and should not mean that a model not built with a sprung chassis runs anything other than sweetly. Hobby Holidays are at http://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Another question about livery - did the LNER, like the GWR, paint the inside of the loco frames red? Stan Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hi all Anyone got any spare rivits about i may have some but they would be very few as i dropped a lot they have to be brass the not the tiny ones the next size up... Cheers Ted................... :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hi all Panick over found some 0.7 thanks anyway.. Ted.... :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 :icon_thumbsup2: Hi Ted Nice to hear from you again.----ROB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 :icon_thumbsup2: Hi Ted Nice to hear from you again.----ROB Hi Rob Back again after a few health problems, so a lot to catch up on, at least winter seems to be be passing, I think the rest has done me good but a long way behind now...anyway good to hear from you Rob.. Ted.......... :icon_thumbsup2: ........ :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4472 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 One point of detail guys, the model appears to have no Lamps front or rear, but you can get them direct from DJH via this link http://www.djhmodell...asp?ProdID=3401 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 One point of detail guys, the model appears to have no Lamps front or rear, but you can get them direct from DJH via this link http://www.djhmodell...asp?ProdID=3401 4472 Laurie Griffin Miniatures can also supply LNER lamps - £6 per set of 3. His other castings are in brass (and very nice they are too) so I suspect the lamps are too. His website is at http://www.lgminiatures.co.uk/ Stan Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 4472 Laurie Griffin Miniatures can also supply LNER lamps - £6 per set of 3. His other castings are in brass (and very nice they are too) so I suspect the lamps are too. His website is at http://www.lgminiatures.co.uk/ Stan Owen For anyone thinking of using Laurie's cast brass Ross 4" Safety Valves (they do polish up nicely!), I have received an email from him and his castings are as from the firebox top upwards. Hence, on the FS, where the boiler cladding is spaced out from the firebox/boiler (as with most locos), the holes for the safety valves will need to be opened out to the bottom diameter of the castings, the firebox top backed inside with some plastic card on which the castings will sit and hole filled in from the top. Sounds much more dramatic than it really is. Once I've done mine, I'll post a photo. Regards, Stan Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Owen Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Hi. I found from another forum this site in the US, http://www.archertra...m/AR88032.html. I ordered some of these, only $2 postage and delivered within a week. I tried the scalehardware but busted so many drills I just gave up. Here is Robert the Devil so far as promised. slimited. What a beautiful model and it looks so different with the early tender. An inspiration! Regards, Stan Owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Hi All Another mistake concerning, fiddling about with white metal axle springs. easier to remove from the white metal than whittle away brass that is super glued (you did super glue it didnt you).. They should rename this project "The Britney Spears" OOps I did it again.. Ted... :icon_wave: and no I have never heard the Song, heard of it yes.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
linds Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hi All Another mistake concerning, fiddling about with white metal axle springs. easier to remove from the white metal than whittle away brass that is super glued (you did super glue it didnt you).. Ok, I'll spring for it. For the benefit of those of us in the Antipodes who are some months away from this latest st*ff up, can I ask which axle springs and what's the issue this time? Staring this week, we in Oz are about to receive a run of tender parts and here I was thinking it was safe to assemble them as received. TTFN Linds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pecksniff Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Ok, I'll spring for it. For the benefit of those of us in the Antipodes who are some months away from this latest st*ff up, can I ask which axle springs and what's the issue this time? Staring this week, we in Oz are about to receive a run of tender parts and here I was thinking it was safe to assemble them as received. TTFN Linds Parts 105 and 106 axle tender springs, tender runs from about 91 or so keep on collecting.. Ted :icon_wave: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
linds Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Parts 105 and 106 axle tender springs, tender runs from about 91 or so keep on collecting.. Ted :icon_wave: Thanks Ted. For the record, Part 87 hits the Newsie in the morning. That is allegedly the tender base plate, to be followed next week by the plastic tender body. What I would really like to know is what has Hatchette done to us this time? Wrong castings or wrong placement or whatever? Regards Linds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonrobert49 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hi here is my Tender so far, not long now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksean1234 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hi chaps, Just wanted to say how impressed I am at the level of work being carried out here! I have not started on mine as I would like to follow some of the ideas on this thread. The idea of glueing the chassis went straight out the door as I can solder! keep up the excellent work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 Nice tender there Hudsonrobert! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.