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As a daily user of south eastern for the past 6 years there is simply no comparison between the old and new stations. I find criticism of the new setup interesting given it's a huge improvement on what came before.

 

Yes, there was an overbridge in the old station between platforms. Yes it provided quicker and easier access between platforms, but I think people are forgetting that mostly it didn't provide quick access as it was rammed full of passengers all pushing each other to get through or vainly looking at screens trying to work out if their train was going to arrive or not. In rush hour if was a total nightmare. I'll admit it would be nice to have an overbridge and the new ground level concourse.

 

Yes, there was a direct route through to the tube at the end of each platform but this was for most of the day a complete disaster area. The walking distance from either end of the mainline platform to the tube platform is pretty much the same only the route has changed. Now you have 2 sets of escalators and you dont hit a wall of commuters hurtling towards you from the other direction. The single exit at the end of the platform lead to people constantly running for trains that stopped 70m down the platform that they wouldn't catch, knocking people over on the platforms as they went. All the passengers alighting at London Bridge amassed in the front 2 carriages for quick exit making dwell times at prior stations longer because passengers couldn't board. The situation at Lewisham inparticular for 2 hours every morning and evening was complete joke with passengers forcibly keeping the doors open with the signals at green. All the CX bound trains used to sit in the old London Bridge platform 5/6 with people still trying to get off as the conductors were blowing the whistle and the train doors were closting for departure leaving passengers trying to get on running down the platform to try and find a door without people still trying to get off. There was no regard for passenger safety and regularly there were people caught in the doors or people who wanted to get off at London Bridge who ended up at Waterloo East.

 

Yes the platforms are not as wide as they once were, but there are more of them so instead of thameslink and charing cross services sharing the same platforms, they now have dedicated platforms, ie fewer people waiting on each platform.

 

As a passenger I want to get home on a train, not hang about in a station. The track layout of the old London Bridge contributed to snarl ups causing thousands of people to accumulate in the station waiting areas only there weren't any for the SE section, the new track layout reduces the likelihood of this happening in comparison and the new ground level concourse provides somewhere for passengers to wait. The purpose of the modifications is to increase reliability and reduce delays and waiting times for passengers. Bravo. At least now if there are problems on one of the approach lines, the remaining lines are still potentially viable. I spent many extra hours sat on a train outside London Bridge waiting to get home or to get to work simply because an apparently unconnected event had caused a seize up at London Bridge. Now if there is an issue with TL I presume CX and CS services continue regardless, and vice versa.

 

*gribble*

 

 

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Ok, and just wait until the new South East franchise, and DafT's plan that all Hayes and almost all Main Line suburban and Sidcup trains will run to Charing Cross - and all Greenwich and almost all North Kent and Bexleyheath trains run to Cannon Street.  So there will be South East interchange as well as Southern and Thameslink.  I can foresee the platforms becoming rammed, the escalators taken out of service, the concourse rammed and trains running through the station on safety grounds.

 

Yippie?!?!?

 

Bill

Add to that the loss of Victoria service on the Bexleyheath line and a proposed additional 2tph to CHX as compensation..... The service franchise level for our line is 6tph off peak. right now that is 2 CST, 2 CHX, 2 VIC. From what I've seen they are planning on having 2 CST and 4 CHX after 2022. Insert a Yippee for having to change at Lewisham through that crappy narrow little tunnel. 

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This has been remarked on before - and once again I repeat that a train carriage only can carry a finite number of people. With Charing Cross / Cannon Street AND London Bridge all having exits at the front of the train (during the morning peaks) you would find everybody trying to cram themselves into the front 4 coaches of a much longer train. This caused delay and also the large gatherings of intending passengers bunged up the platform sections closer to the ramps making it harder to move along the platform.

 

The current setup with the platform access being in the middle of the train - and with the actual stairs / escalators pointing fore and aft will encourage commuters for London Bridge to travel further back down the train and not try and cram into the front with Charing Cross / Cannon Street passengers. Yes it means a longer walk to the Tube or the bus station - but its all under cover so I really don't see the problem.

 

As a 'passenger group', Commuters are one of the rudest, impatient and selfish bunch of travellers out there. Just because the new layout at London Bridge means they have slightly longer to walk, have to think about purchasing refreshments before accessing the platforms and can no longer sprint up the ramps / over the footbridge to make last minute connections does not entitle them to any sympathy in my book.

I see the spirit of customer service is alive and well.

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I see the spirit of customer service is alive and well.

 

Its got nothing to do with customer service and everything to do with the miserable sods doing the commuting. If you travel at peak times away from the major cities you will find that in general passengers are more polite to each other, don't push and shove as much, are less abusive to staff and a tad more understanding when things go wrong. Its also a fact that those travelling at peak times like expectant mothers, or those with a disability are generally ignored with very few commuters willing to give up their seats or to give them space to board / alight before sorting themselves out.

 

Commuters also have a warped sense of their own importance - the "my journey is far more important than anyone elses" syndrome - which conveniently ignores the fact that on busy routes such as those into the London termni there its impossible to give everyone what they want - particularly with the rapid rise in users over the past decade.

 

Granted commuting into London every working day on crowded trains and paying increasing amounts of money year on year will understandably take is toll and I don't expect commuters to be happy at these aspects - but given they are the net result of factors largely outside the railways control (namely the job market, business hours, Governmental Tax Policy) a bit of recognition that there is only so much the railway industry can do to make a difference. The railway tracks, signalling systems, station platforms all have a finite limit as to how many people they can accommodate - and they don't magically get bigger just because everyone wants to arrive or depart London at the same time each day.

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Add to that the loss of Victoria service on the Bexleyheath line and a proposed additional 2tph to CHX as compensation..... The service franchise level for our line is 6tph off peak. right now that is 2 CST, 2 CHX, 2 VIC. From what I've seen they are planning on having 2 CST and 4 CHX after 2022. Insert a Yippee for having to change at Lewisham through that crappy narrow little tunnel. 

 

Interchange at Lewisham is indeed not great and is definitely deserving of improvements. However more folk changing trains there strengthens the business case for any improvements - if the powers that be can turn around and say "It isn't necessary as you can change at London Bridge" then that will reduce the incentive to do anything.

 

However as I pointed out earlier, if Wimbledon loop commuters were sucessfull in bouncing the Transport minister to issue an edict saying the route must stay part of Thameslink there is no reason in principle why concerted political action won't change things....

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Its got nothing to do with customer service and everything to do with the miserable sods doing the commuting. If you travel at peak times away from the major cities you will find that in general passengers are more polite to each other, don't push and shove as much, are less abusive to staff and a tad more understanding when things go wrong. Its also a fact that those travelling at peak times like expectant mothers, or those with a disability are generally ignored with very few commuters willing to give up their seats or to give them space to board / alight before sorting themselves out.

 

Commuters also have a warped sense of their own importance - the "my journey is far more important than anyone elses" syndrome - which conveniently ignores the fact that on busy routes such as those into the London termni there its impossible to give everyone what they want - particularly with the rapid rise in users over the past decade.

 

Granted commuting into London every working day on crowded trains and paying increasing amounts of money year on year will understandably take is toll and I don't expect commuters to be happy at these aspects - but given they are the net result of factors largely outside the railways control (namely the job market, business hours, Governmental Tax Policy) a bit of recognition that there is only so much the railway industry can do to make a difference. The railway tracks, signalling systems, station platforms all have a finite limit as to how many people they can accommodate - and they don't magically get bigger just because everyone wants to arrive or depart London at the same time each day.

And London commuters are probably the least social of any - at least north of the Watford Gap ordinary folk talk to you, even strangers.

 

Jim

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It's got nothing to do with customer service and everything to do with the miserable sods doing the commuting.

 

I don't know how many folks commute into London every day, but it's quite a few. Lumping them all together seems a bit unfair. The person you are calling a miserable sod might turn out to be the medic who saves your life, or the only person on the planet who knows how to stop slugs eating your marigolds. A smile costs you nothing. You might get one back.

 

Martin.

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I don't know how many folks commute into London every day, but it's quite a few. Lumping them all together seems a bit unfair. The person you are calling a miserable sod might turn out to be the medic who saves your life, or the only person on the planet who knows how to stop slugs eating your marigolds. A smile costs you nothing. You might get one back.

 

Martin.

 

I was of course speaking generally. In volume terms, of commuters to central London, (about 80% of 1.1 million) arrive by either the Underground (400,000 daily) or by surface railway into these termini (860,000 daily).

 

With numbers like that of course there will be nice and happy commuters, however speaking personally  to those who either do commute, or have to deal with commuters on a daily basis the evidence says that happy, understanding commuters are in the minority (which is backed up by various behavioural studies and reports).

 

While they should obviously be treated with caution, the following stuff found by a quick Google search tends to support the view that commuters (as a particular market segment) do seem to be involved in quite a few displays of selfishness.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/713123/Cat-Lee-disabled-reserved-train-seats-refused-move

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/11128608.London_commuters___shocking__rudeness_to_pregnant_woman/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3596976/Rail-passengers-refuse-seat-heavily-pregnant-woman.html

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93222160/stand-up-for-decency--train-staff-cant-make-commuters-move-for-disabled-passengers

https://japantoday.com/category/national/disabled-woman-yelled-at-for-using-trains-priority-seat-not-looking-like-a-handicapped-person

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They only come out at night......

 

 

DSxZj7wXUAEPW2D.jpg

 

So strange to see a train at London Bridge showing Finsbury Park as its destination! One day soon, it will be as common as muck.....We live in interesting times indeed.

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One of the design elements  I was impressed by is the provision of a section of straight platform on the through lines at the centre of the train, and adjacent to the lifts. This presumably allows the train/platform gap to be minimised there with all sorts of advantages.

 

Dave

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I was told there is 3 more weeks of work to go before the end of the project.  The next project was to be Woking, but I told it has been caped as SWR do not wish to provide a  share of the funding.

So spare a few thoughts for the workforce of London Bridge who may be looking for new jobs 

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I don't know how many folks commute into London every day, but it's quite a few. Lumping them all together seems a bit unfair. The person you are calling a miserable sod might turn out to be the medic who saves your life, or the only person on the planet who knows how to stop slugs eating your marigolds. A smile costs you nothing. You might get one back.

 

Martin.

Whatever the possible merits of their day jobs or horticultural talents, a miserable sod is still a miserable sod. :jester:

 

As for the reasons, I doubt it has much to do with the price of the ticket - they just hate commuting but can't find a nicer way to finance their lifestyles.

 

One once summed it up to me as "Can't afford to live in London, but can't afford to work anywhere else".

 

John

 

Back on topic, the new London Bridge looks superb and I'm planning a trip to see it as soon as the weather warms up.

Edited by Dunsignalling
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I was told there is 3 more weeks of work to go before the end of the project.  The next project was to be Woking, but I told it has been caped as SWR do not wish to provide a  share of the funding.

So spare a few thoughts for the workforce of London Bridge who may be looking for new jobs 

 

Do you mean the Platform 6 works?

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Do you mean the Platform 6 works?

I'm referring to P-way  renewal work ,   last weekend  20 chains of plain line on 2 Reversible  renewed  near the old  Spa road station , 

This weekend I think that  30 chains of 1 Down between Spa Road and NKE Junction is to  be renewed

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Is NKE junction the spur that joins the Hayes line to the main line between Ladywell and Lewisham? There were a number of new P&C panels stacked up in that area when I went past this morning.

 

Hopefully it will get rid of that TSR over the current junction.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

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Is NKE junction the spur that joins the Hayes line to the main line between Ladywell and Lewisham? There were a number of new P&C panels stacked up in that area when I went past this morning.

 

Hopefully it will get rid of that TSR over the current junction.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

The spur you refer to is the Ladywell Loop, connecting  Ladywell on the Mid-kents to the Up and Down Fast lines at  Parks Bridge on   Hither Green to London Bridge route. The TSR  you refer to may not be for a P-way  condition, it is possibly a TSR speed  reduction to assist signal sighting for drivers.

 

NKE  = North Kent East is the junction  to Deptford/Greenwich from the main London Bridge to New Cross lines

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Thanks :)

 

I wondered whether it was the points because the ride has got a bit rough over them, the crossing nose looks quite worn and on one crossover there are multiple sleepers that are pumping due to the trackbed condition. Given the Hayes line is shut this weekend I figured the Ladywell Loop was the focus of works as there are wacker packers and other P-Way equipment stored on the lineside by that junction.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

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I'm referring to P-way  renewal work ,   last weekend  20 chains of plain line on 2 Reversible  renewed  near the old  Spa road station , 

This weekend I think that  30 chains of 1 Down between Spa Road and NKE Junction is to  be renewed

 

No, sorry, I meant your reference to Woking. The only prospective major work I have seen for that area was either the conversion of Platform 6 to a through road, requiring a major re-build of that side of the station buildings, or the flyover beyond the station. These were both in the last Network Route Utilisation Strategy, but I have seen no further mention of them, other than some reports dating back to 2016 in the local press (which also included the possibility of an upgrade to the north side entrance as part of "Woking One"). I have seen no plan for a total re-build of the station. I was just interested to know which scheme it was that you had been told was now cancelled?

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Thanks :)

 

I wondered whether it was the points because the ride has got a bit rough over them, the crossing nose looks quite worn and on one crossover there are multiple sleepers that are pumping due to the trackbed condition. Given the Hayes line is shut this weekend I figured the Ladywell Loop was the focus of works as there are wacker packers and other P-Way equipment stored on the lineside by that junction.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

 

Parksbridge Junction was replaced due to "life expired components and contaminated ballast". I googled Parksbridge Junction as I wasn't aware of the name. I found this link...

 

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/all-change-at-parksbridge-junction#

 

To be specific, it's the junction on the Kent mainline that splits off to the right for Ladywell and onto Hayes (ie the Lewisham avoider route to Hayes), or straight on for Hither Green. It seems they were also working upto and possibly on the lower levels points on the Hayes route where is splits for Lewisham, crossing under the mainline, or the main line - the ladywell loop as you say... which is even more curious as the lower level points were replaced only 3 or 4 years ago.

 

At best 12 years from new to life expired for the p-way and presumably whatever was laid back in 2005 was contaminated. Ouch. Pretty surprised at this as trains done seem to go very quick across that junction.

 

*gribble*

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