St. Simon Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Hi, The best place I can find for this bit of news Although not directly London Bridge related, it has been reported by Philip Haigh (don't know who he is, but reported via the SEG Facebook page) on Twitter that: "GTR ran a Thameslink train in automatic mode for the first time on March 17. Unit 700019 stopped automatically at St Pancras at 1353 having switched to ETCS Level 2 and ATO on the way from Kentish Town. After its driver shut the doors it left under auto control." Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Philip Haigh is a former deputy editor of RAIL and now a freelance writer on railway matters. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Philip Haigh is a former deputy editor of RAIL and now a freelance writer on railway matters. Chris Thanks Chris, you learn something new everyday! There’s now a proper article on the railway gazette: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/thameslink-first-with-ato-over-etcs.html I personally think it really is an exciting time to be in UK Signalling, it is amazing that it can be done! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railsquid Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I agree with all you have said, but, whilst an overall roof would have been very nice, I am not sure how it could have been built economically or relatively quickly without shutting the entire station (or at least each side of it) for prolonged periods. A primary requirement of the project was to keep the station open for the maximum possible. I also doubt the arches could have supported such a structure without considerable extra intervention, although less of an issue on the Central side it is true. If we look elsewhere, I do not recall any done in the UK over an operating railway station. Abroad, I recall those that have been done that have required total closure of the area affected during the works. cf Zurich, Liege-G, Rotterdam Centraal (partial), but I also recall that the new Berlin station roof was built whilst trains continued to run, but I believe the whole project took over 20 years? No, it was completed in 2006, don't recall when work started but certainly no earlier than the mid-90s. It was an entirely new construction, consisting of a north-south tunnel and the east-west viaduct, which was built somewhat to the south of the existing Stadtbahn viaduct, with basically no disruption to the existing services other than when the tracks were diverted. However the then DB boss (one Hartmut Mehdorn) insisted it be finished in time for the 2006 World Cup (football IIRC), and they ended up leaving off the ends of the roof on the viaduct section. (Now if you want a ridiculously delayed German infrastructure project, look no further than Berlin's new airport, which is still not open). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I personally think it really is an exciting time to be in UK Signalling, it is amazing that it can be done! Simon Technically it's not particularly difficult. After all we had ATO with the Victoria line in 1968! As far as the ATP (ETCS) system is concerned, it doesn't know if the train is driven by man or computer. It merely (!) enforces movement authority, speed supervision and door enable. In my experience the issues with ATO tended to be with jerk rate, speed profile optimisation and stopping position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2018 No, it was completed in 2006, don't recall when work started but certainly no earlier than the mid-90s. It was an entirely new construction, consisting of a north-south tunnel and the east-west viaduct, which was built somewhat to the south of the existing Stadtbahn viaduct, with basically no disruption to the existing services other than when the tracks were diverted. However the then DB boss (one Hartmut Mehdorn) insisted it be finished in time for the 2006 World Cup (football IIRC), and they ended up leaving off the ends of the roof on the viaduct section. (Now if you want a ridiculously delayed German infrastructure project, look no further than Berlin's new airport, which is still not open).0 Leeds was reconstructed whilst trains were running, twice in 50 years. In 1960 they dismantled the old roof and then built the new one. In 2000 IIRC they built the new roof over the old one then cut the old one away though it may have been some sort of crash deck that was installed. Groups of platforms were taken out of use in sequence but that was mainly to rebuild the actual platforms and relay the track. There were a few blockades and a very ingenious solution was to build a temporary platform on the Leeds avoiding line aka the Wellington curve and then run a series of services that arrived from one direction then went straight through onto a different route. My memory is that the scheme worked very well. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Leeds was reconstructed whilst trains were running, twice in 50 years. In 1960 they dismantled the old roof and then built the new one. In 2000 IIRC they built the new roof over the old one then cut the old one away though it may have been some sort of crash deck that was installed. Groups of platforms were taken out of use in sequence but that was mainly to rebuild the actual platforms and relay the track. There were a few blockades and a very ingenious solution was to build a temporary platform on the Leeds avoiding line aka the Wellington curve and then run a series of services that arrived from one direction then went straight through onto a different route. My memory is that the scheme worked very well. Jamie On Leeds 1st Jamie, whilst it did go fairly well (although we had two major design changes mid-way), you have to remember that the first thing we did was to build one new and extend 4 platforms, outside of the main shed (going from 12 to 17 platforms eventually). That, together with the additional approach tracks and Leeds Whitehall, meant we had the capacity to run between 75% and 90% of the normal service (depending on the stage/day of week), albeit more of them terminating, during the works. That left only two through platforms available for most of the three year period, with a couple of bays for eastbounds, whilst the roof works and other platform/track changes could take place elsewhere (apart from the four blockade periods). That sort of additional capacity creation was simply not available to London Bridge, outside of the works. I am sure there may well have been a methodology by which LB could have had an overall roof constructed with most trains running, but I am not at all sure just how much more it would have cost and how much longer it would have taken. You have to remember that the new Leeds roof was to be lighter than the old metal canopy, such that the original supports could be (partially) relied upon. LB would have had to start from scratch with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Not only have I walked through Stainer Street arches since the redevelopment and not noticed this, I knew nothing about the bombing either. I shall be more observant on my way home this evening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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