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Heljan Class 16


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1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

If the gear train is heavily loaded with grease, then reducing it to a sensible quantity yields about a 30% gain in maximum speed in my experience to date. Models that started out with circa 75mph top speed would then be circa 100mph. That's all on the 'big motor' (mostly CoCo) models that I have looked at because they were sluggardly.

 

I have never bothered with looking at this on my small motored examples as they topped out nicely at scale for circa 60mph, 'just right' for classes 15 and 16, not that I ever saw either type going at their maximum rated speed.

Hi,

 

I'm hoping with the various locos I've bought cheap to use ~ 1 half of the chassis per multiple unit so the friction from the gear towers will be halved. I intend to use Bachmann style split axle pickups on any trailing bogies that need pickups so that should minimise friction elsewhere. I've bought a Faulhaber coreless motor to do some experiments with as it may have a higher top speed under load than the Heljan Class 16 motor (and I've had a Class 16 motor burn out during a test run). The ratio of the Class 16 gear tower appears to be about 21:1 (I suspect 20 to 1).

 

Regards

 

Nick

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  • 2 months later...
On 10/09/2018 at 12:17, John Tomlinson said:

Further to my last post, after running for a while I felt the loco to be a tad sluggish, and not quite as smooth at slow speed as many of my Heljan  paragons. It also seemed to be getting a bit hot, and being a #1603 D8407 GFYP, I was wary from previous posts that it might fail.

 

So yesterday I stripped the gear towers down for a closer look. The model will have been in store at Hattons for a while, being one of the first batch, and having taken all the cogs and worm assemblies out I wiped away the old white grease. Experience with a "Ribble Cement" Clayton some years ago suggested the grease could well be part of the problem, and so it seems to have proved on the basis of running this morning after re-assembly, the loco now seems a good bit more free running and definitely is more responsive to the controller. I couldn't find any obvious flaws in the gear cogs, or flash particularly on the insides of the casings, but some of the cogs did have small moulding pips on the sides that may have slightly snagged on rotation. I've trimmed these off anyway. The gear train has been lightly lubricated with silicon grease bought from Hobby Holidays, and does seem smoother at slow speeds now. It also seems not to have warmed up after several minutes continual running.

 

On balance I conclude that the old white grease was the main problem, and anyone finding sluggish or hot running on an older model may wish to take note.

 

John.

Well, that'll teach me not to be complacent!

 

I'd had no problems with the loco, and having bought a second one recently which I serviced, I decided to give both a wheel clean. My method for this, used for decades without problem, is cleaning fluid on a cottton bud held against the wheel whilst rotating under power. That was enough to generate a burning smell, and it looks as if the motor has gone the way of many others.

 

The new Gaugemaster site lists the motor, part no.68, as currently unavailable, so it looks as if the loco will be following prototype behaviour by going into store for a period!

 

John.

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Further to my last post, a bit of sleuthing revealed that Olivia's Trains can supply a replacement suitable for all Heljan locos with this type of motor. This does require the punter to fit the flywheels/ guides from the old motor, or they can do this for you if you supply the damaged item. I've gone for the DIY option and ordered two for £42 inc. postage, so we'll see how it goes!

 

For the record, I did contact Howes who used to do Heljan spares, however they advised that they returned all the spares stock to Heljan when they ceased to be the distributor, and so now have no items at all.

 

John.

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28 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

Further to my last post, a bit of sleuthing revealed that Olivia's Trains can supply a replacement suitable for all Heljan locos with this type of motor. This does require the punter to fit the flywheels/ guides from the old motor, or they can do this for you if you supply the damaged item. I've gone for the DIY option and ordered two for £42 inc. postage, so we'll see how it goes!

 

For the record, I did contact Howes who used to do Heljan spares, however they advised that they returned all the spares stock to Heljan when they ceased to be the distributor, and so now have no items at all.

 

John.

 

John

 

Gaugemaster have taken over the role of Heljan spares stockists

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/category/view/s/Heljan-spares/id/834/

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19 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

John

 

Gaugemaster have taken over the role of Heljan spares stockists

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/category/view/s/Heljan-spares/id/834/

Thanks Phil. I had a look on their new site and the motors are showing as unavailable for all the smaller diesels. The one for the Beyer Garratt is the same motor but appears to have a long shaft at one end only, so even if this comes into stock following the new BG releases I doubt if it could be used for classes 15, 16 and 17.

 

It'll be interesting to have to remove the flywheels/ guides from the old motor and refit to the new. Interesting being a euphemism for hopefully not being at home to Mr. Cockup! I have done similar things in the past and do have various sets of pullers, so we'll see.

 

John.

Edited by John Tomlinson
typo
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19 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

John

 

Gaugemaster have taken over the role of Heljan spares stockists

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/category/view/s/Heljan-spares/id/834/

That looks to be a very difficult way of getting spares I much preferred the Howes site. Can’t see a Hymek class 35 diagram and how do I  order latter axles/ wheels for class 47s to replace the early brass wheels?

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36 minutes ago, bubbles2 said:

That looks to be a very difficult way of getting spares I much preferred the Howes site. Can’t see a Hymek class 35 diagram and how do I  order latter axles/ wheels for class 47s to replace the early brass wheels?

I'm rather inclined to agree with you, as I found the Howes site very easy to navigate and use. The wheels to which you refer were up on a "general" page and off you went. This seems a bit like ploughing through treacle.

 

I also don't understand their idea of selling by item rather than by sprue. The cost of the plastic is microscopic, and one suspects the saving on this will be swamped by having someone's labour to extract each piece individually. I'd have thought as well that selling by sprue enables a bigger range to be offered with less detail on the site or indeed admin.

 

Better get used to it, all we've got!

 

John.

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47 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

Thanks Phil. I had a look on their new site and the motors are showing as unavailable for all the smaller diesels. The one for the Beyer Garratt is the same motor but appears to have a long shaft at one end only, so even if this comes into stock following the new BG releases I doubt if it could be used for classes 15, 16 and 17.

 

It'll be interesting to have to remove the flywheels/ guides from the old motor and refit to the new. Interesting being a euphemism for hopefully not being at home to Mr. Cockup! I have done similar things in the past and do have various sets of pullers, so we'll see.

 

John.

 

Sounds like fun John! 

 

1 minute ago, John Tomlinson said:

I'm rather inclined to agree with you, as I found the Howes site very easy to navigate and use. The wheels to which you refer were up on a "general" page and off you went. This seems a bit like ploughing through treacle.

 

I also don't understand their idea of selling by item rather than by sprue. The cost of the plastic is microscopic, and one suspects the saving on this will be swamped by having someone's labour to extract each piece individually. I'd have thought as well that selling by sprue enables a bigger range to be offered with less detail on the site or indeed admin.

 

Better get used to it, all we've got!

 

John.

 

You can bet we will all want the same bits off the sprues too

 

43 minutes ago, bubbles2 said:

That looks to be a very difficult way of getting spares I much preferred the Howes site. Can’t see a Hymek class 35 diagram and how do I  order latter axles/ wheels for class 47s to replace the early brass wheels?

 

And I cant see an 00 Class 35 diagram either!  The wheels are listed on the 47 sheet although they dont appear on the exploded diagram and according to the price list are currently unavailable any way....

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2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I cant see an 00 Class 35 diagram either!  The wheels are listed on the 47 sheet although they dont appear on the exploded diagram and according to the price list are currently unavailable any way....

I’m surprised you managed to cross reference to the price list I couldn’t figure out  how to do that!

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9 minutes ago, bubbles2 said:

I’m surprised you managed to cross reference to the price list I couldn’t figure out  how to do that!

 

They havent made it easy!

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On 12/03/2020 at 15:45, bubbles2 said:

That looks to be a very difficult way of getting spares I much preferred the Howes site. Can’t see a Hymek class 35 diagram and how do I  order latter axles/ wheels for class 47s to replace the early brass wheels?

 

I specifically asked about replacement wheels and sent them a picture and ref number.  Was told they can't get them.

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On 12/03/2020 at 16:28, John Tomlinson said:

I also don't understand their idea of selling by item rather than by sprue. The cost of the plastic is microscopic, and one suspects the saving on this will be swamped by having someone's labour to extract each piece individually. I'd have thought as well that selling by sprue enables a bigger range to be offered with less detail on the site or indeed admin.

 

Better get used to it, all we've got!

 

John.

I was caught out by this, ordered what I thought was enough parts for 3 locos', received hardly enough for one, plus I was nearly stung with the £2.50 small order charge, on top of the postage charge (then I saw the free postage option)

 

When I queried this I was told it was price per item, not by sprue, and told to order more if I want them,  Needless to say there are none left!  I suggested that they make it clear on the HJ Spares price list that its price per item.  

 

 

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In my general sleuthing I noticed that Peter's Spares have a section on their website for Heljan items saying "coming soon".

 

I've no idea if this will amount to anything but might be worth keeping an eye open.

 

My two replacement motors for the class 16 arrived from Olivia's today, under 24 hours since ordering which I thought was impressive. I've a few other things on the workbench at present, but will post my progress (or otherwise!) in due course.

 

John.

Edited by John Tomlinson
typo
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  • 3 years later...

I have a PITA aspect to record on the class 16.

 

My Heljan knowledge is modest, all BoBo from classes 15, 16, 23, 26/0, 128. Running and appearance fine, all most satisfactory; the 'chinese puzzle' mechanism assembly template simple enough once understood.

 

But now I have been asked to look at a 16 that had an accident, which is perfectly fixable. But who on their design team decided to deviate from the usual method of mounting the pick up wipers on 'pegs' on the bogie towers, instead having them on the outside frames which makes re-assembly a pain? 

 

Just in case anything else in Heljan's twin bogie range tempts me, are there any others so afflicted?

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