BR Mk1 RMB or RU? Or both?

[R.Langley]

Hello all,

 

Researching Mk1 coaching stock and the formation of trains made up of these I haven't come across much mention of restaurant/buffet cars within trains. Now predominantly I'm looking to find out whether RMBs were in service at the same time as RUs which were used on WR trains (at least I'm pretty sure), so would both be seen running at the same time on the network? Also when did RUs and RMBs come into regular use? And was there a difference in the importance of trains that these two types of "catering" coaches were used on?

 

Thanks!

 

Richard

[chrisf]

RUs date from 1956 initially, RMBs from 1960 - so the latter should not be painted crimson and cream as some preservationists have done! RUs provided full meals, RMBs lighter refreshments. I would mention RBs and RKBs but that might serve only to complicate the issue.

 

Chris

[R.Langley]

Thanks Chris, plus I believe that RBs and RBKs are yet to be modelled in RTR format? Though I assume Comet probably do a set of new sides.

 

Richard

[robertcwp]

Thanks Chris, plus I believe that RBs and RBKs are yet to be modelled in RTR format? Though I assume Comet probably do a set of new sides.

 

Richard

Mainline did a very good model of the RB 30 years ago. The RB had a kitchen similar to the RU but a smaller seating area. In between was a buffet counter.

 

The RKB had a large kitchen and pantry, with a buffet counter (but no seats) at one end. Meals were served in an adjacent open vehicle, as was also often the case with RB and RU.

 

RB(K) was a c1970 conversion from RF. The LMR did not receive RU vehicles but instead had restaurant cars with 24 first class seats (built 1961-2). Almost all were rebuilt as restaurant buffet cars c1969-70 and reclassified RB(K) often written simply as RBK.

 

The WR had very few RMB vehicles early on. No one has yet managed to prove to me that any carried WR chocolate and cream livery.

 

For much of the 1960s and into the early 1970s, most East Coast Anglo-Scottish expresses had both an RMB and an RU in the formation.

[Bomag]

For much of the 1960s and into the early 1970s, most East Coast Anglo-Scottish expresses had both an RMB and an RU in the formation.

 

Apparently the Yorkshire/TT Pullman services also regularly ran with both for steerage passengers until the mid 70s

[robertcwp]

 

Apparently the Yorkshire/TT Pullman services also regularly ran with both for steerage passengers until the mid 70s

I don't recall the Yorkshire Pullman having RU/RMB but if I recall correctly the Tees-Tyne Pullman did in its final year and the Hull Pullman did for most, if not all, of its life after the second class Pullmans were withdrawn from it in October 1968.

[Hal Nail]

Just to resurrect this, given their late introduction, would all of these types have carried raised window frames from new?

[zarniwhoop]

Looking at pictures in Parkin, I would say no for the RU when new, but no idea for the RMBs. The one thing he doesn't seem to cover is replacement windows. By the 1970s I would expect all the windows to have raised frames.

 

The phase I 4-CEP EMUs had raised frames when built, and I think they were produced from 1960 to 61, so very possibly the RMBs did too.

[bécasse]

The phase I 4-CEPs came into service in June 1959 with the opening of the Kent Coast electrification so were built 1958-1959. It was the phase II 4-CEPS that were built 1960-1961, coming into service in June 1961, initially working to the ex-steam timetable. There were four prototype 4-CEPS (and two 4-BEPS) which came into service in 1956 and worked on the Central Division and they certainly had the original "frameless" windows.

[w124bob]

Tyne Tees Pullman I can't ID the first type of catering vehicle but there are certainly two.

 

[45125]

2 hours ago, w124bob said:

Tyne Tees Pullman I can't ID the first type of catering vehicle but there are certainly two.

 

It looks like the diagrammed RU. The kitchen should always be south and the bar on the RMB should be south on the Pullman diagrams.

 

I have been on the Hull Pullman with 2 RUs in the formation when changing over vehicles, both RUs were in use.

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by 45125

[keefer]

The high-speed 'Deltic + 8' sets had twin catering cars with either RU+RB or RU+RMB - I don't know which services these were though (KX-Newcastle?)

More manageable for modelling as well - 3TSO,RMB/RU,2FO,BG - you could even knock out one TSO and FO to save more space.

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, keefer said:

The high-speed 'Deltic + 8' sets had twin catering cars with either RU+RB or RU+RMB - I don't know which services these were though (KX-Newcastle?)

More manageable for modelling as well - 3TSO,RMB/RU,2FO,BG - you could even knock out one TSO and FO to save more space.

The very first Mk2D sets made up in April 1971 were formed:

 

BFK-FO-FO-RU-RB-SO-SO-SO

 

These worked the morning and evening London/Newcastle business runs and a middle-of-day fill-in run between (essentially a 3-leg out, back and out turn).