'CHARD Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I can't believe we haven't started this previously, based on the popularity of the prototype and the clamour for a definitive RTR release. Here is a classic Transition shot with late sixties West Highland credo. http://www.eastbank.btinternet.co.uk/images/NBL/nb06.jpg And a bowler-tip to STIFF LITTLE FINGERS for the thread title, for you eagle-eyed punk rock fans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Maiden Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Excellent choice of thread Mr Chard... I've been known to have a wee affection for these beasties, here are two stabled at Eastfield (B/W I'm afraid) but both are two tone green with FYP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I eagerly await the release of Dapol models of the 21/29's. Essential for a North Glasgow 19-69-71 layout! I grew up in sight of Eastfield, and went to primary school right next to it, but being born in 1970 I was too late! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 For reasons best known to myself, I'm considering a scratch build of D6128 in O gauge at some point in the future! If anyone has a picture of it in as withdrawn livery, I'd be most chuffed to see it. Great pictures so far chaps. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 For reasons best known to myself, I'm considering a scratch build of D6128 in O gauge at some point in the future! If anyone has a picture of it in as withdrawn livery, I'd be most chuffed to see it. Great pictures so far chaps. Cheers. Sean. Well she was toast here: http://www.derbysulz...ttybrewster.jpg so I suspect this very distressed state was her final motley. Good luck, PoD! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Piszczek Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 These are the Flickr 'D61XX' photos. There are probably more, later locos without the 'D' leading the number, but the search criteria returns an exponentially larger group of photos when only numerals are used. D6102: http://www.flickr.co...ter/5315643729/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/3574983115/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/johngreyturner/3927309982/ D6103: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/4217944811/ D6104: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/4621356872/ D6105: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5977551928/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/17889585@N03/4102139045/ D6106: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/3574983115/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2190714782/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/3575790776/ D6107: http://www.flickr.com/photos/johngreyturner/3974312301/ D6108: http://www.flickr.com/photos/curly42/5315345761/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5977552080/ D6111: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingfisher24/5405579541/ D6112: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmc1947/5864369184/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingfisher24/5248189087/ D6114: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40263244@N04/5722015577/ D6116: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16236990@N08/2953953359/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/16236990@N08/2954799912/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/16236990@N08/2954799014/ D6117: http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/3780660171/ D6118: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/5526889640/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikealaska/4597809729/ D6120: http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6263026215/ D6121: http://www.flickr.com/photos/johngreyturner/3843964354/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/monochrome_trains/2995628142/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2364627728/ D6122: http://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/213142948/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2832273661/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/59613544@N08/5457057779/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/16236990@N08/2954795624/ D6123: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/3087680138/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/5029784045/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/iainrobbie9/3684252768/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingfisher24/5521098746/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2146439821/ D6126: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingfisher24/5103534164/ D6128: http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6263026587/ D6130: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21611052@N02/4428681603/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5861057843/ D6131: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tcs-pics/5563114727/ D6136: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanwade94/5921626291/ D6137: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmc1947/5863815733/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/curly42/5478371585/ D6142: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lonegroover/1270077192/ D6145: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lonegroover/1269218661/ D6150: http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6229932524/ D6152: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmc1947/5863815597/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 D6150: http://www.flickr.co...N03/6229932524/ I do believe this beastie has a trace of oil spillage marring the characteristic Kittybrewster tidiness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 D6127 was withdrawn in all over green (with melted/burned patches!), having not run since 1962ish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I particularly like this photo. http://www.flickr.com/photos/johngreyturner/3891943629/ If the date is right, then that loco had been withdrawn quite sometime, yet if you look carefully its running. It was not unusual at that time for withdrawn locos to be started up and used for shunting etc if they would! I wonder if thats the fabled D6109 in the shed..... Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I particularly like this photo. http://www.flickr.co...ner/3891943629/ If the date is right, then that loco had been withdrawn quite sometime, yet if you look carefully its running. It was not unusual at that time for withdrawn locos to be started up and used for shunting etc if they would! I wonder if thats the fabled D6109 in the shed..... Jim I reckon the shot is 1968, not 1969. I also think the class 29 in the shed is D6124 judging by the style of full yellow end. It does allow a comparison to show how ugly class 29's looked compared to the original class 21's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'd say it could be any of the blue 29s with the exception of D6124 due to it having odd horns. I've not seen the picture of D6109 for such along time I cannot remember what the front details are like. I just wish I could remember where I did see it...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 It could be the B end of D6124 Whilst on the subject of horn placement, has anybody ever noticed that the horn/lozenge on the drivers side of all class 21/29's are about an inch further inboard, than that of the one on the second mans side and its not an optical illusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I particularly like this photo. http://www.flickr.co...ner/3891943629/ If the date is right, then that loco had been withdrawn quite sometime, yet if you look carefully its running. It was not unusual at that time for withdrawn locos to be started up and used for shunting etc if they would! I wonder if thats the fabled D6109 in the shed..... Jim My records show D6105 as overhauled and released back to traffic in Aug 67. And we know it was withdrawn from traffic a year later in Aug 68, whilst it is reported as been cut up the following month Sept 68. So looking back at the picture and the condition of the class 29 behind, I would possibly date it early 68. As to the class 29 sticking it nose out the shed, usually I can identify most class 29 pictures (I'm a bit sad there and also their was only twenty to choose from), but the clarity of the image and what can actually be seen makes it very difficult. What I can say, its either D6124, D6129 or D6137. I don't think its D6137 and a higher resolution image would tell me straight away weather it is or not. So that would leave D6124 or D6129 and as Jim mentioned D6124 had odd horn arrangement at its A end, but again the clarity of the picture makes it impossible to clarify which end the loco is. But it is one of those three. Sorry Jim its not the fabled one! A small (not much use) image of D6109 appeared in Rail Magazine 524 (Oct 2005), but the best picture was in Railways Illustrated (Dec 2008). If anyone has a scan of the Rail Illustrated image, I would love to see it, I've never seen it and i'm wondering if it is different to ones i have seen. Trevor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thanks Trev! At last i can now hunt it down. I'll PM you as soon as I've got hold of a copy. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Grahame Wareham (Brush Veteran) has a very nice selection of photo's on his flickr pages. Here's the 29's: http://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/sets/72157627812443639/with/6263553742/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 OK, here's an old conundrum for you all, I know me and my friends would argue about it nearly forty years ago and its still something that comes up by others on occasions. I know it seems rather bizarre and something that just shouldn't of been able to happen, but the question is did D6121 & D6122 swap their identities in 1965? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 The latter being the Woodhams, Barry survivor - and only S-E I ever saw Wasn't one cab from D6121 transplanted onto its sister at some point? Hence the confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 D6122 got a cab off of D6121. As the paint started to fade, the old D6121 number, which had just been painted over, showed itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Yes the possibility of a cab change could of happened, and the same could be said of the B end cabs of cl29 D6100 and cl21 D6109 been swapped over in 1967. The cabs were built as separate units, but how much work It would be to just swap one with another. I will go into my reasons for D6121 & D6122 a bit later but ideally I need to find an early shot of D6121, the one I have of it doesn't clarify the number, although the caption does. Just to add as a teaser for now, if the southern eloper D6122 did have a cab change, then they changed both, as neither is as built!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The cabs were actually fabricated by a manufacturer in London, and not at the NBL factory. They used a lot of heavy aluminium castings, especially the skirts and buffer cowlings on the D600's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The cabs were actually fabricated by a manufacturer in London, and not at the NBL factory. They used a lot of heavy aluminium castings, especially the skirts and buffer cowlings on the D600's. Yes, Lightalloys Ltd, Acton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted December 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2011 D6122 got a cab off of D6121. As the paint started to fade, the old D6121 number, which had just been painted over, showed itself. Ahhh that explains a near 40 year old mystery. Although I knew D6122 was at Woodhams (I scrambled all over it as a kid) I do recall seeing D6121 at one end. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 One of the oddities over the years has been the Barry scrapyard D6122 and for me this goes back to my only visit there back in1972 and seeing D6122 one end and D6121 the other Now their have been many stories over the years, such as, the #1 was fudged on, had the loco been fitted with a replacement cab earlier in its life, or was it really D6121. Whatever the reasoning the records show that it was D6122 and that it would go on to outlive the refurbished class 29 D6121, albeit by sitting in the graveyard. So I go back to the question did D6121 end up at Barry and did D6122 become a class 29 in the guise of D6121, or were the records correct. Whatever the answer I shall go through my reasons, on why I feel these two locos may have switched their identity's at some time, pre 1965. Also please understand this could be total speculation on my part, so I don't want to read my reasons as been gospel in the future railway press Anyhow here are some of the facts/reasons I have uncovered: A) The loco arrived at Barry in 1968, clearly showing it as D6122 on all four corners. The only photo I have of it at Hither Green before then, is not clear enough to distinguish the number and I have no reason to believe it been in any different state, as the change must of happened pre 1965. Most of us know or have seen the evidence at an early stage, clearly showing the B end, with its worn paintwork and visibly showing the numbers D6121 on both the drivers and secondmans cab sides. Now we come to the more difficult A end. C) On the drivers side the #2 doesn't seem to match the other #2 in size (this may well be just down to the image been distorted in some way, I don't know). Also you can visibly see where behind the numbers, their is a rectangular patch which has faded differently to the rest of the cabside. This may be down to using some kind of lacquer before applying numbers when built, or where the old number may of been scrubbed out, or patch painted over the old number, again I don't know the answer to this. D) On the secondmans side we seem to have the same thing with the patched area under the numbers. Now we go away from the Barry findings for a while. E) Much like the D6300's, the D6100's had the ventilators (eyebrows) above the front cab windows. D6100-20 had the eyebrows and D6123-57 didn't, which leaves D6121 & D6122. F) Now the part I can't 100% clarify, I have a slide of D6121 when built and although the slide is marked as D6121, it is impossible to read the number, (if anybody does have a photo of this loco when built or sometime pre 1965, it could be the answer). Anyhow what the slide does show you, is that the loco has the eyebrows, problem is D6121 never had eyebrows post 1965! G) Then we move on to D6122, in all the images I have of this loco, from 1965 onwards and obviously any Barry shots, it clearly has the eyebrows. Now I have two images of this loco in 1960 & 61, clearly showing its number and guess what, definitely no eyebrows! H) When I realized a couple of years ago that class 29 D6121 was missing its eyebrows, it got me thinking. Why wouldn't it? and yet D6122 has, was it just a case of been built out of sink, (cl22 D6333 is the same), but earlier evidence shows D6122 didn't start life with them and D6121 possibly did. So finally we return to D6122 at Barry, with its new eyebrows. I) A few more photos of the A end and the secondmans side, this is the cab end which clearly states the loco to be D6122 and the patches under the numbers. But what is that under the #2, surely it couldn't be a #1, it is! Which shows that three out of the four cabside numbers as been D6121. So their you have it, some of my reasons for believing D6122 was actually D6121 and the refurbished/re-engined class 29 D6121 was possibly really D6122. If i am correct how or why did it happen, why was it never noticed by BR, or was it and if it did happen, somebody out their must know. As I say, I could be barking totally up the wrong tree with my speculations, but perhaps my findings have shown their is evidence to my story. If anyone could add to my reasoning one way or the other i would be interested to hear and if anyone has a clear shot of D6121 when built or the early part of its life, that would clear up another part of the mystery. Trevor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Fascinating stuff Trev, my totally unscientific feeling is that you have something here - based mainly on the eyebrow evidence and (more convincingly IMO) the fact that it wasnt just one cab that had the new '2' digit, as it might have been in the case of a bump or other localised damage. Possibly it was a case of 6121 being found unsuitable for conversion for some reason (as occurred with one of the ETH Peaks and one of the ETH push/pull 27s), and the IDs got swapped to keep the books straight if the paperwork had already been done? BTW what's the deal with 6109 getting a cab off 6100? Does that explain why the former had headcodes, and if so, was it only the one end? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 BTW what's the deal with 6109 getting a cab off 6100? Does that explain why the former had headcodes, and if so, was it only the one end? Hi Ian, I cant imagine D6109 and 6100 had a cab change, the work involved would be too much, but i would more likely say that the cab doors were swapped with each other at the B end. If you remember 6100 was the solo liveried cl29 which had the large BR arrows at the centre of the loco and no arrows on the cab doors. But by May 1968 it had received the more traditional small arrows on both cab doors of the B end, making it unusual looking ie. large centre bodyside arrows and small arrows on the doors at one end only. With D6109, the class 21 that had all the body mods of a class 29, but not the Paxman engine. Well that started with the more traditional four small arrows on all the cab doors. But by April 1968 it was withdrawn and parked on the other side of the mainline at Eastfield, in the triangle and at this time the two cab doors at the B end were now plain blue and no longer had the arrows, ie. small arrows on cab doors at the A end only. The logical explanation suggest doors been swapped to me. As to D6122 i believe i could of added something, but will the evidence ever come to surface, meanwhile its another twist for people in our hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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