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Sad-Eyed People - the Class 21 and 29 livery resource


'CHARD

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Hi Steve,

 

I know D6127 was damaged by fire but do you know what happened to D6151? Are there any pictures? 

 

D6151 was withdrawn with 29 others in the great cull of 31/12/1967, having been transferred from Kittybrewster to Ferryhill on 24/09/1967 along with the rest of Kittybrewsters allocation, so I assume that there was no special circumstances surrounding its withdrawal

 

Jim

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D6151 was withdrawn with 29 others in the great cull of 31/12/1967, having been transferred from Kittybrewster to Ferryhill on 24/09/1967 along with the rest of Kittybrewsters allocation, so I assume that there was no special circumstances surrounding its withdrawal

 

Jim

 

Understood Jim, but among that great cull at the end of 1967 were locos which hadn't run for years because of accident or fire damage.  For example D6127 didn't run again after catching fire in 1962, so it never received yellow panels. If D6151 was also withdrawn with no yellow panels as Steve says, it seems likely that it too had been out of traffic for a long time, hence my query as to why that was.

 

Regards

 

Mike

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Understood Jim, but among that great cull at the end of 1967 were locos which hadn't run for years because of accident or fire damage.  For example D6127 didn't run again after catching fire in 1962, so it never received yellow panels. If D6151 was also withdrawn with no yellow panels as Steve says, it seems likely that it too had been out of traffic for a long time, hence my query as to why that was.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

I found a bit of an enigma tonight, there are three photographs in B.R. Diesel Traction in Scotland by George O'Hara purporting to be D6151.  Photo #5 on page 9 shows it ex works at Kittybrewster in June 1960, then on page 109, photo #247 is described as D6151 at Cornhill in June 1964 - complete with yellow warning panels, but at the end of the book, photo #697 on page 301 shown the loco forlorn in McWilliams Scrapyard  - with no yellow panels.  The number is not clear on photo #247 so it must be assumed that this has been wrongly identified.

 

Jim

                               
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I found a bit of an enigma tonight, there are three photographs in B.R. Diesel Traction in Scotland by George O'Hara purporting to be D6151.  Photo #5 on page 9 shows it ex works at Kittybrewster in June 1960, then on page 109, photo #247 is described as D6151 at Cornhill in June 1964 - complete with yellow warning panels, but at the end of the book, photo #697 on page 301 shown the loco forlorn in McWilliams Scrapyard  - with no yellow panels.  The number is not clear on photo #247 so it must be assumed that this has been wrongly identified.

 

Jim

                               

 

 

There's a picture on my HD of D6151 at Aberdeen Ferryhill with yellow panels - the number is visible, but taken from the other end to plate #697 in George O'Hara's book, with no yellow panel on the other end.

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Is it definitely D6151 without yellow panels at Shettleston? i.e is the number visible in the picture?

 

Yes - it is quite clear in the photo, but here is more to add to the mystery - http://www.railuk.info/gallery/notes/getimage.php?id=2005

 

So did it run round with one end yellow and the other plain green, or was there a cab swap

 

Jim

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Yes - it is quite clear in the photo, but here is more to add to the mystery - http://www.railuk.info/gallery/notes/getimage.php?id=2005

 

So did it run round with one end yellow and the other plain green, or was there a cab swap

 

Jim

There is a colour image on Eastbank MRC showing a more overhead view of McWilliam's yard taken with the same 3 Class 21's on view. Although you cannot see the number it is the same loco as in George O.Hara's book on page 301 that depicts D6151. I cannot dispute the other image with a half yellow end although it could be D6157, but it also could be that it only had it painted on one end. I'm sure another image will materialise to confirm this in due time so yet another challenge is laid down!

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Yes - it is quite clear in the photo, but here is more to add to the mystery - http://www.railuk.info/gallery/notes/getimage.php?id=2005

 

So did it run round with one end yellow and the other plain green, or was there a cab swap

 

Jim

 

Yes that is the photo I was referring to in #130, not Aberdeen Ferryhill as I thought, but Kittybrewster

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The MLI issue doesn't add much other than to record D6151 was stored unserviceable from July 1967.

 

And BR Database says the Railway Observer from July 1968 records its movement from Aberdeen to Shettleston with two others in May 1968. Anyone got this issue and feel like checking the reference?

 

Another anomaly is that the Shettleston pic is supposedly from 1972, a longtime to keep 6 complete locos.

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Interesting. If the date is correct it's late for it not to have panels, only 2 years before it was officially withdrawn. No visible damage, either accident or fire, but does this have the look of a loco in the early stages of being robbed for spares? No windscreen wipers, missing side window, open engine room doors. OK, I'm reading far too much into one picture!!
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I like the map, it’s a good idea, but it’s made me think.

 

Where they not used to Kyle of Lochalsh?

 

And why not?

 

Many thanks.

 

Kyle diagrams were responsibility of Inverness shed; the GNoS fleet of NBLs were Aberdeen allocated.  I doubt that Inverness Control had the confidence/ devilment to send a borrowed 21 out in the Dingwall direction, nor would its traincrew be trained for that traction over the route.

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Kyle diagrams were responsibility of Inverness shed; the GNoS fleet of NBLs were Aberdeen allocated. I doubt that Inverness Control had the confidence/ devilment to send a borrowed 21 out in the Dingwall direction, nor would its traincrew be trained for that traction over the route.

That would seem reasonable. D6146 was based at Inverness from 24th April to 18th June 1960 ostensibly for crew training, though I have not seen anything to suggest it was used North of Inverness. It has been suggested that this was simply an exercise in spreading the burden of maintenance in areas where the class worked but were not necessarily allocated; Perth and Dundee each had one allocated (D6145 and D6151 respectively) around this time too.

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Where they not used to Kyle of Lochalsh?

 

And why not?

 

Hi Michael,

 

When I compiled the map I worked primarily from photographs as well as written notes and I was - to my great chagrin - unable to find any evidence that the 21/29s reached Kyle of Lochalsh.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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If the Class 21s deputised for failed Class 28s, did this mean that they would run double head with 28s, or were double headed 21s substituted?

I am sure this could give modellers an interesting pairing to run if they did.

Jamie

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In the book 'On West Highland Lines' by Robert Robotham there is a picture of D6108 and D6135 on a Glasgow-Oban in the Pass of Brander between Crianlarich and Oban on 13 May 1961.  So they got to Oban.  I cannot ever recall seeing any of them on the Kyle or Far North routes - maybe too far away from home - and away from the loco fitters.   

 

I have to hand 'On Scottish Lines' by Derek Penney  - as mentioned by Mike Delamar.  It is all steam and no diesels in this book.

 

Also I can highly recommend 'First Generation Scottish Diesels' by David Dunn which has D6135 on a Stirling - Edinburgh passenger service. And there any more sad eyed pictures in the NE of Scotland illustrated in this book.  

 

And they were used extensively around Glasgow on freight.  Three pictures taken in the early sixties at the Clyde Iron Works at Carmyle on the east side of Glasgow attached.  (AM)

post-1767-0-82416600-1546523080_thumb.jpg

post-1767-0-87179200-1546523096_thumb.jpg

post-1767-0-53844400-1546523124_thumb.jpg

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In the book 'On West Highland Lines' by Robert Robotham there is a picture of D6108 and D6135 on a Glasgow-Oban in the Pass of Brander between Crianlarich and Oban on 13 May 1961.  So they got to Oban.  I cannot ever recall seeing any of them on the Kyle or Far North routes - maybe too far away from home - and away from the loco fitters

Thanks I think that’s the book I remember, I remember using it to try and detail my Hornby 29. The book has been lost but I’ve now ordered a replacement.

 

Many thanks.

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