Fat Controller Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 There is! Channel Islands, but it would likely be narrow gauge like the Jersey Railway. That way you could have British outline stock with German stuff brought over and battle-scarred buildings. Also Northern France in the run up to Dunkerque- the BEF had quite a lot of British locos, such as Dean Goods (one of which ended up on the Eastern Front), along with some wagons. The MoS had even ordered wagons to continental specifications for use in France, though only a few made it before 1940. Other possibilities might be parts of Italy- the Allies brought in their own stock, mainly to shunt the port networks, some of which was still in service until the beginning of this decade at least. Indeed, there was a private line near Arezzo which had both an ex-LMS 0-6-0 shunter and an ex Wermacht one in regular use in 2001. By and large, though, railways didn't last long in the immediate vicinity of battle, being targets for both invading forces and retreating occupying ones- though some Allied locos arrived in France in the week after D-Day, even before the Mulberry Harbour was in service, they didn't see much use until mid-autumn, when the front was approaching Paris. Damage to infrastructure was immense- my uncle Harry and his colleagues, who were part of a Royal Engineers unit rebuilding bridges and track behind the advancing forces, spent six months rebuilding one bridge just east of Rouen (a 'temporary' structure, which was finally replaced two years ago!) If you do go down the road of modelling post-D-Day France, bear in mind that, although there might be some German freight stock, the locos were almost entirely local French stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I wonder if there is someway I can combine British and Continental stock and a battlefield (using History and not a what if scenario).:icon_confused: From a prototype point of view the best bet is WW1 rather than WW2. There were locos taken up for the ROD from most of the pre-grouping railways to serve in France and Belgium (0-6-0 from LNWR, MR, GCR, GWR, GER, NBR, CR, LYR, as well as NER T1 (Q5) 0-8-0, GWR 43xx, GCR 8A (Q4) 0-8-0 GCR 8K (04) 2-8-0, LBSCR E4 0-6-2T, Kerr Stuart "Victory" class 0-6-0T). There were also American "Pershing" 2-8-0s, 4-6-0s, 2-6-2ST, 0-6-0ST and New South Wales 2-8-0 - all alongside the native French and Belgian types (some of which were very close relatives of Caledoinian designs). If you want variety WW1 Belgium is it (and I have never seen it attempted). "Vapeur en Belgique Tome II" has a few pages of photos (one of each type)in ROD livery. The "Battlefield" bit is more of a problem as they transferred goods to the NG systems for that (but then 009 is well placed for WW1 stock). Andy May Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBSC123 Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 Thanks for all the replies, I the field of interest for me would really be Eygpt post war, as my late grandad served there just after the war. are there any books on that era and location? Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 It was known to the forces as the Canal Zone. http://www.suezcanalzone.com/ This looks like a good starting point for you, Will. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBSC123 Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Loco near the bottom on the page Pictures of Tank trains at top of the page and also some arila pictures of a railway swing bridge. those pictures look like a good start for the railway scene but there are plently of Pictures for an everydace scene. Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Err, combining British and Continental stock is, of course, up to you and others have given some historical precedents that might work. There is, however the problem of scale. British 00 is 1:76, Continental HO is 1:87, and most of the suitable vintage war equipment (aircraft, tanks etc.) is 1:72. Maybe this is a problem, maybe not? :icon_e_confused: HTH David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Err, combining British and Continental stock is, of course, up to you and others have given some historical precedents that might work. There is, however the problem of scale. British 00 is 1:76, Continental HO is 1:87, and most of the suitable vintage war equipment (aircraft, tanks etc.) is 1:72. Maybe this is a problem, maybe not? :icon_e_confused: HTH David The difference between 1/72 and 1/76 is neglible in comparison with that between OO and HO. If you were to stick to HO, then Roco-Minitanks used to do a range of armoured vehicles, albeit with a bias towards ex-Wermacht and American types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Balin Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Rather abstract so far as railways are concerned, but a fascinating thread nonetheless. As has already been mentioned, a large war-game scenario played out in the 1980's suggested that even if the RAF had lost the Battle of Britain, the Germans would still have failed in any invasion attempt. You only have to look at the years of planning and effort that went into the allies D-Day invasion to see that Sealion was a pretty half-hearted affair. I have long believed that the whole thing was something of a bluff by Hitler, who thought that he could force a negotiated peace. After all, he never meant to go to war with Britain, he was really interested in pursuing his expansionist policies in eastern Europe and Soviet Russia. Having thousands of troops tied up controlling Britain would have seriously jeopardised these plans. What really intrigues me is what Lezz01's Aunty Doris was doing packing parachutes on a U-Boat in the Atlantic...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted December 10, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hi there people. Leaving my Aunty Doris aside for the minuet LOL There are 3 possible scenarieos you might consider. 1, WWI with ROD locos and stock on a mainline intrchanging to a narrow gauge system feeding a R.A. battery line in the rear of the weston front,this could be fun as it was all a bit muddy with shell holes, shattered trees and the start of the comminication trenches upto the front line. 2, WWII with a model of one of the big K5 railway guns firing positions and supply trains in nothern France. 3, WWII The seige of Servastapol. You have a lip smacking selection of Very VERY heavy railway guns, upto and including DORA, to play with. Indeed all of the large German, railway bourn, guns were used in the seige and are avalible in either 1/72 scale in the case of the K5 and the Karl series of morters or HO for the K5. Although your on your own for the Dora. However I doubt you would have the room for Dora as she was very VERY big. Either of these would make a very convincing model. As a bonus these all avoid those embarssing "cattle trucks" as they are a bit inconvient in the not offending people stakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 If ww1 or ww2 is a problem you could always go for a hypothetical Cold war scenario for the early 1980's with equipment either being moved to port in Britian of moved up to staging areas in West Germany. Would be differant, and incorporate continental and UK rolling stock as well as military equipment. Also if you do decide to do anything on Sealion let me know as I have a load of literature on it that my help you for planning and design. However as others have said, the scorched eath policy was planned for all major ports as well as most railway bridges being scheduled for demolishion in the event of invasion. As reards the problem with depicting the movement of people in cattle trucks out of Britain, if you take Jersy as an example this did not occur until the rea was brought under control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I believe the Longmoor Military railway had one of those track-ripping hook things that they were messing around with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted December 12, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2009 Hi guys. The track ripping hook is not a new thing they were first used in the American civil war. I belive it was used extensively during U.S. Grant's march to the sea. It was just one way Grant made Georgia howl. Other ways included, but were not cofined to, looting, sacking, rape, pillage and slaughtering the civil population. Who said war is hell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Overll, I think the idea behind this entire thread is a fascinating one. There are a few books about a possible Nazi invasion of the UK. The most likely scenario is the British losing the BoB, and being unable to hold the channel in the face of the air superiority of the Luftwaffe. The entire idea is a fascinating political question. BUT... If you are thinking about exhibiting the layout, it won't get a good response. WW2 is a very sensetive area evne now, and some may not take kindly to anything like this. Worst case scenario, people might consider you to be pro-nazi. If you are thinking about this for a personal layout, then no-one can tell you not to build it. However, exhibiting it is a different question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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