Andy C Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 In my guise as secretary of the Rochdale MRG I received an e mail, which is cut and paste below. Another commercial organisation moves in, this time offering "free space for your display" and the promise of a (unspecified) donation to your society. I suspect it wont cover the cost of transporting your layout there. The place they are using is a large former warehouse. but I cant help thinking that once more business is prepared to trample all over the patch of many societies, this time in the North West. And this time the money is definately not going back to the hobby. I do note the only layout mentioned attending is one which is a front for a business though. Go on, bite the hand that feeds you! Message sent via the RMRG web site at 14:54 on Monday, 21st November 2011. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: THE NORTHERN MODELLING EXHIBITION EVENTCITY, MANCHESTER, 2nd – 4th March 2012 We would like to invite Rochdale Model Railway Group to join us at this NEW Showcase exhibition by presenting a club display. Another exhibition! However the Northern Modelling Exhibition is intended to be AND DO more for your hobby than just an exhibition - it is planned to be a MAJOR SHOWCASE for all forms of Modelling the aim being to introduce modelling to a far wider audience - vital for the future of our skills based hobbies. The UK has five main Model Engineering exhibitions at present. Of these Bristol, Harrogate, Sandown and our own Midlands exhibition primarily attract model engineers and like minded enthusiasts and all are specialist events. One exhibition however, is different. The London Model Engineering Exhibition at Alexandra Palace with its far greater range of exhibits and interests attracts a far wider public in addition to dedicated modellers of many disciplines. This event, being at a major venue in the capital also attracts considerable media coverage and brings in new people every year to every hobby represented. Attracting the wider public to our exhibitions is vital to ensure our hobbies continue into the future and do not die out with the changes in lifestyle. We must attract new blood and SHOWCASE EXHIBITIONS like The London Exhibition at Alexandra Palace AND NOW- its sister event THE NORTHERN MODELLING EXHIBITION at the newly launched EventCity, Manchester together, are the answer. EventCity is a completely new high profile venue which is located right next to and is part of the famous TRAFFORD CENTRE. The Centre itself has over 30 million visitors annually the majority of whom will pass right by the EventCity main entrance. Event banners will be seen as people drive past and also on billboard sites throughout the Trafford Centre itself thus ensuring MAXIMUM visitor levels. We would like to invite you to present a club display and will be pleased to make space available for you to present a range of your members' work. As is our policy there is no charge made to any society for the space occupied, lighting, insurance or other additional services. Security of your models receives a very high priority and every endeavour is taken to ensure the safety of all exhibits. A donation is also made to every participating society displaying models. We hope that, like us, you can see the opportunity for long term growth in hobbies this new event presents. Like Alexandra Palace it is a major venue in a major city and will consequently achieve high profile media interest and create tremendous interest amongst the wider public. We are sure that you will appreciate the opportunity offered by EventCity and the Northern Modelling Exhibition join us in taking this great chance to build for the future of the hobby. Yours sincerely www.meridienneexhibitions.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I for one would not be prepared to exhibit my layout or man a demo stand for just expenses (or less that I have personally experiened in thr past) for a commercial organisation to make a profit. Starting a new venture like this in the current economic climate is very risky and you may find that this Show may well just be a one off. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Can't really see it being a huge draw, I know it sounds very insular, but mixed exhibitions aren't really my thing, isn't there something along the same lines at M/cr Airport, again not on my radar (sorry). Are we now getting to saturation state with exhibitions anyway, seems that way? To my mind, only the decent ones get my cash. Is the layout you mention an N gauge Scottish based set up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I for one would not be prepared to exhibit my layout or man a demo stand for just expenses (or less that I have personally experiened in thr past) for a commercial organisation to make a profit. Starting a new venture like this in the current economic climate is very risky and you may find that this Show may well just be a one off. XF Meridienne Exhibitions are the people who run the 'International N Gauge Show' as well as several model engineering and larger scale model railway shows. I don't see how their organisation of an exhibition is much different from someone like Warners arranging any of their three model railway shows, and I've manned society stands at quite a few of these and enjoyed it. I do agree with Andy C that it is competition for the society-organised exhibitions, and to be honest, I'm beginning to think that there are just too many shows now. Starting an event like this seems rather risky, especially a 'general' show, but they've presumably done their sums and think they can make a go of it. As an aside, was this the venue that used to be the ill-fated 'Museum of Museums'? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 To be fair to Meridiene, they have been organising and running exhibitions for a number of years now, and the events they tend to organise are much bigger than anything the 'average' club could manage. As a commercial company they are bound to want to make a profit, after all organizing exhibitions is their business, and no business can run without making a profit, Xerces points out that a new venture in these financially dire times is risky, but I suspect they are putting a toe into the water to gauge it's success. Other railway shows they have run in the past have done well as they keep running them on an annual basis. What they do have is the clout to easily use big bundles of money to get a large event space. How much does Warley cost for the weekend £25-30k? (And that's just the hire of the hall!) I'd say that for every modeller that says' 'I'm not going to exhibit there', another couple will be saying 'Look at my layout please!' They did invite me to one of their large scale shows at 'The Fosse', but I declined: Again if it's for a Club/charity = expenses only; Commercial companies can pay me my daily rate. I'm self employed so when I give up my time for a show, I'm losing money (I don't begrudge it if it's for a club/good cause, but not to line someone's pocket). I'm sure they will make a donation to the club, but i'm also sure that traders that go will also be asked to pay commercial rates for their stands. What they are doing is preying on the old system of modellers and clubs giving their time for expenses only and hoping we forget that someone is going to be taking sack loads of cash to the bank the following Monday. Suddenly I'm sounding bitter and twisted (Sorry) Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I wouldn't worry too much about losing visitors to new, large, commercial shows, we thought that would happen when BRM started the Doncaster Show and yet the scene is more booming than ever. I've been to a few Meridienne exhibitions at their own dedicated exhibition centre on the Fosse Way, and am surprised how they manage to make a profit after paying their staff the minimum wage and layout expenses....or what their motive is... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 As an aside, was this the venue that used to be the ill-fated 'Museum of Museums'? Andy Thats the place, used to be a distribution depot. I think one of the worst things about this is its slap bang in major exhibition time and whilst its very generalist modelling there are model railway societies in the NW like Preston who are having their show around that time, who this is trying to tap into the currently falling market of. People only have x amount of our english pounds at the moment, and will probably only go one place, not the other as well. I thought the Warners shows were the spawn of the devil as theres a tenuous link to money back into the hobby there (owners pockets more like) in this case it purely about pulling a buck, with no concern or thought to those who strive to put their club shows on to keep their heads above some very deep water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Sounds like its trying to be a lot of everything and consequentally only of general interest - the admission will be quite high so I would not see it as that much a threat, more to worried about would be if it was Warners doing a NW exhibition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 This place is just around the corner from me (literally I could walk there in 10 minutes). If a proper bona fide exhibition came that close to me I'd be daft not to pay a visit but this does sound more for the generalist and I'm not sure how it would actually fare. They also host Barry Potter Toy and Train fairs (next one in a week). This building has had a lot of uses - cigarette factory, Argos distribution before it became the museum of museums which then turned into a general exhibition centre for Peel which does have extensive free parking, excellent road connections and something for non modelling other halves in the form of a massive shopping centre. Is March really in the middle of the exhibition season - most of the North West based shows I attend are in the Oct-Jan window so it actually comes later and could act as a showcase like they say for other shows because being slap bang next to a massive shopping centre there is a big footfall of potential visitors who might be made more aware of modelling as a result. Ok it is commercial, but there might be benefits and it won't be a Warley because the punters are not a captive audience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I think it just spam The UK has five main Model Engineering exhibitions at present. Of these Bristol, Harrogate, Sandown and our own Midlands exhibition Where do the get this idea from? Other than Ally Pally I would not even list them as also ran exhibitions, not even on my radar and certainly not worth attending. Even Ally Pally has gone downhill IMO. Failure to include any of what I would count as top 5 and even top 10 (which includes a few truly North of Britain shows - despite being located South) just reaffirms they must be way out of touch with reality and with their heads so far up Brisbane. Of course if the exhibitors don't go and the trade ignores it they will soon realise that such enterprises are not wanted. Their inflated admission prices should keep everyone else away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Am I missing something in the original email "The UK has five main Model Engineering exhibitions at present. Of these Bristol, Harrogate, Sandown and our own Midlands" It then goes on to mention Ally Pally, but I havn't heard of the four mentioned in that sentance, and I thought Ally Pally had closed down - which begat Doncaster - and then someone decided to restart the Ally Pally show. Not that it matters to me, in my mind "comercially organised" shows, like this one advertised, the Warners/BRM and 'Warley' show at the NEC are not focused on the enthusiast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2011 This is a different 'Ally Pally' show as shown on their own website and not connected to the Warners (BRM) show http://www.meridienneexhibitions.co.uk/our-events-detail.php?id=0000000002 This (and the others listed) are model engineering exhibitions. Looking at this specific show they have 15 traders and 17 exhibitors shown - but not much that's railway related - 3 layouts but the others are model engineering clubs.. http://www.meridienneexhibitions.co.uk/our-events-detail.php?id=0000000015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Having been invited as a trade and see a proposed floor plan the model railway section is quite small. The rents for small trade stands are very high and not viable for a small company like mine. It may get some people in to the hobby but railway modelling judging by space allocation will be the poor relative to remote control sections (boats, planes, cars etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 Am I missing something in the original email "The UK has five main Model Engineering exhibitions at present. Of these Bristol, Harrogate, Sandown and our own Midlands" Yes. These exhibitions are "Model Engineering" and have little to do with model railways unless it is of the ride-on size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Why not ask for more information that shoot the idea straight away. It could be beneficial to have a mixed exhibition and prove to the public that we are not all geeks that go to the n'th degree about our trains. I organise a charity show that was done for the Scout Group Im an active part in. Railways made up around half of the things on display, which was part of the enjoyment for visitors. It wasn't just about trains and they became interested all round. With exploring if your group wants to prosper.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I seem to remember that many years ago an exhibition company tried this sort of thing at Ingliston show ground in Scotland, same conditions, expenses only but not guaranteed, mixed subjects. Many clubs declined to attend and the word went round. It died a very quick death.... Perhaps someone can remember who the company was and what happened to them. Dave Franks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 From promoters e-mail: ...newly launched .. EventCity is a completely new high profile venue which is located right next to and is part of the famous TRAFFORD CENTRE... ... this Show may well just be a one off. New exhibition venue being launched: exhibition promoter trying to drum up near free exhibits, doubtless on some sort of discount offer for the space from the venue management who need their investment to start getting some visibility and a chance of paying clientele. Unless it supplies something long wanted will never be seen again... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I tend to find the 'large' shows rather soulless personally, and much prefer the smaller club shows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Not that it matters to me, in my mind "comercially organised" shows, like this one advertised, the Warners/BRM and 'Warley' show at the NEC are not focused on the enthusiast. To me that's a bit like saying that a commercially organised gig isn't focused on fans of the band, and the only proper gig is something else entirely, which sounds like it could start us on a similar musical journey as the road to gauge snobbery (to give but one example). I failed to see anything at Warley last weekend to suggest it is anything other than enthusiast-focused. By any measurable attribute. Unless of course, we are narrowing 'enthusiast' into some specialist nano-genre that I haven't encountered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Its been a good few years since I went, but I always enjoyed the Model Engineering exhibition at Wembley and later Ally Pally (and the one I went to at Sandown). Similarly to appreciating layouts outside my normal range of interests, I enjoy seeing modelling outside my normal range of interest. If I'd had more money as a child I would have had a radio controlled plane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 First thought is "Here we go again" It's only two or three years ago that many of the Yorkshire clubs were having similar concerns about the short-lived commercially run show at the Pickering Showground. I haven't got a list any more but if I recall there were several clubs including some from Lancashire/North West who DID exhibit there and justified their attendance as "it doesn't affect our show" well now the boot is on the other foot... [though, to their credit I don't think the two clubs (Rochdale and Manchester) that Andy is associated with were among them] Second thought is that it is a bit late to only now be trying to book layouts for an exhibition next March. - Any decent Exhibition Manager should have the majority of his content sorted a year in advance! As they are a commercial organisation, I would be requiring a written contract in advance including a set 'appearance fee' of £xx per person per hour on top of expenses, not some woolly promise of an unspecified donation after the event... Meridienne Exhibitions are the people who run the 'International N Gauge Show' as well as several model engineering and larger scale model railway shows. Indeed they are, in the case of the N-Gauge Show, in association with a well known group of n-gauge modellers who are the owners of what I suspect to be the "layout which is a front for a business" Andy mentioned... My experience of dealing with them as an exhibitor at the N Gauge Show is that they don't match the standards of hospitality taken for granted at regular 'club' exhibitions. No meals were provided - you are even expected to pay for tea/coffee, they are very 'careful' with expenses claims and apart from the bouncers on the door and one fairly junior member of staff, Meridienne representatives were conspicuous by their absence... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMal Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Firstly this is advertised as a "Model Engineering Exhibition" which suggests larger scales (garden railways, sit on and ride, etc.) than 7mm which the model railway world is use to, although I appreciate there is some overlap. A local entrepeneur tried a purely commercial show in the north east a few years ago, claiming that proceeds would be donated to the North Yorks Moors Railway. After the first year we discovered this was not true. Add to this, problems with claiming expenses, accommodation many miles from the venue, and the disappearance of all the organisers staff after about 1pm when they had collected the bulk of the gate monies (leaving trades/exhibitors to sort out the afternoon and "run" the show). The second similar event was shunned by most local modellers and clubs, leaving the organiser pulling in most layouts/traders from north Scotland. A third event did not happen!! My advice is to shun this event and north west clubs should try and persuade as many people as possible in the model railway world to not get involved. If you are interested in larger scales there are several well established events throughout the year organised by GOG or ALSRM. As for the Warners events - at least BRM is a model railway magazine, integral to our hobby and involves clubs (i.e. The Model Railway Club at Ally Pally) in their exhibitions. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMal Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Sorry PLD you gazumped me whilst I was typing the above. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 First thought is "Here we go again" It's only two or three years ago that many of the Yorkshire clubs were having similar concerns about the short-lived commercially run show at the Pickering Showground. I haven't got a list any more but if I recall there were several clubs including some from Lancashire/North West who DID exhibit there and justified their attendance as "it doesn't affect our show" well now the boot is on the other foot... [though, to their credit I don't think the two clubs (Rochdale and Manchester) that Andy is associated with were among them] Paul Thats true Paul, we didnt and we wouldnt!! In point of fact didnt go as a paying punter either despite the attractions of some nearby steam railway and several good boozers. Now heres a revelation, lets face it as far as the two clubs I'm involved with, it hardly likley to affect us being in 6 months apart from this show, in fact theres a bloody good case for taking our display stands there and plugging our show gratis. So why did I raise it and put Mr Indignant head on when in actual fact it could benefit us? A point of principle actually, there are other shows on around that time within the usual "commute " of Manchester - I mentioned Preston for a start and heres the rub - its the same weekend Les Nerlich has worked hard to build up the standards of Preston show, including moving it from the inclement Jan date to this new date. Its a damn good show and well worth a visit. Now some commercial vultures come, and lets make no bones about it, by sending this e mail out to all MRCs they can find in the North West try to hijack their customers, and lets face it they make it quite clear in that e mail they are trying to penetrate "our" market. If people are aware - by fora like this - then they may just think about not supporting it in deference to the hard working volunteers to graft to put a show around this time of year on to keep their club going for the next year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2011 we didnt and we wouldnt!! Ditto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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