RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted November 26, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Hi I am trying to find out if anyone has produced bogie sideframes as per the photo for the early Brighton or Midland style Pullmans in 4mm. I got as far as a test etch of the main body a while back but stalled on the casting for these. Does anyone know of an existing source before I start making masters? Thanks Ian in Blackpool Edited November 27, 2011 by ianmaccormac 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Looks like a Wild West coach, the roof is a very complex shape, when you say side frames what do you mean? I thought that they were of monocoque construction and all you can see underneath are a few tensioning ties? Looking at the survivor at Butterly does not help as it was a grounded body and now rest upon a goods wagon. Edited November 27, 2011 by relaxinghobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted November 27, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Amended to read bogie sideframes! I was forgetting I am close to the subject and know what my brain means! They were built in America. Cheers Ian Edited November 27, 2011 by ianmaccormac Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Anything suitable in the MJT range, as is or for adaptation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterR Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Hi Ian, Are you talking about the original bogies of 6ft 6inches wheelbase or the later 8 footers wheelbase? That does not include the diners which were longer! IF the latter Roxey do a LSWR 8ft American bogie which is virtually the same as them: I don't know of a 6ft 6inch one. Link to Roxey though there is no view of them http://www.roxeymoul...2510e02e9b2770# I have sent you a small drawing of the LSWR American bogies, which I think is the Roxey style. Edited November 27, 2011 by PeterR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Hi I am trying to find out if anyone has produced bogie sideframes as per the photo for the early Brighton or Midland style Pullmans in 4mm. I got as far as a test etch of the main body a while back but stalled on the casting for these. Does anyone know of an existing source before I start making masters? Thanks Ian in Blackpool The bogie is a pretty standard American passenger bogie of that era. The problem is the Yanks don't model in 00. At the risk of commiting complete heresy there is something very similar in the Bachman On30 range (16.5mm gauge) which might be a suitable starting point for a pattern. http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=400 I believe that EDM stock these in the UK so you might be able to measure a set up. http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Bachmann/parts.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted November 27, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks, I hadn't thought of the Narrow Guage parts, I'll investigate. I have Tower Models here in Blackpool so will pop down and have a gander! Ta Ian in Blackpool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Ivan Smith's Southwark Bridge Models has this type of bogie (8' wheelbase) in his range for LSWR coaches - link here for drawing. I have seen these in the flesh and they are nice clean castings on an etched subframe. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 That's a nice-looking etch, Ian. Interesting choice for a model - I like it Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted November 27, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks Adam, I'll look at the references but I think these are slightly different. Thanks Mark, this is the first pullman I have had a go at. I like the early Brighton vehicles especially. Three layers of etch to get that and they curve at each end and join over the central doorway. Just getting on with the floor and roof. Cheers Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 NP Ian - as a 4mm Midland man, it's always nice to see MR prototypes being modelled Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted June 9, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 9, 2018 I have been quietly getting on with lots of things but mainly got distracted by 7mm scale. I am aiming to get them ready for the Brighton Circle AGM in October. Both 4 and 7mm. Still working on the castings for the bogie, both 6'6" and 8' wheelbase 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted June 10, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) I am interested in the bogies from 247. What type are they? Have yòu a photo of them? Many thanks Ian Edited June 10, 2018 by ianmaccormac Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted June 10, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2018 Many thanks, not quite what I'm looking for then! Back to making my own. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted June 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2018 The transverse leaf springs are characteristic. Clayton used Pullman-style bogies on his earliest bogie carriages; not exactly the same pattern but rather close. I don't know if any of the makers of Midland carriage kits or bogie sideframes offer these - not, I think, 51L/Wizard but 247 or Stevenson? I don't have a list for the latter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) Can I help with Pullman bogies? Here are some I have rustled up over the years, the grey one is from some old Lima continental coaches, short but when you take out the original Lima pizza cuter flanged wheels and re-wheel with 00 size wheels it make a good version for early 6 foot 6 inch Pullman. This Cheap Lima coaches are often seen at swap meets, they must have been sold as part of trains sets originally, mine are from a 1960's era train set. 6 wheel version are again swap meet finds they came as part of an American outline H0 coach again re wheeled, at 36 mm wheelbase a bit short perhaps? But if I take my glasses off they make the right impression. The white one is home made, here I'm trying them out on a Ratio MR coach to try and get the ride height correct. Built up from layers of thin P-card, plastic lumps and bumps, 4 sides laboriously built up over photo copied plans of bogie sides, Just cosmetic, stuck onto the working part of the bogie, which I built up from strips of brass sheet and rail to make a strong metal frame. Very difficult to get every thing to line up and be square but the purist form of scratch building, I was following a David Jenkinson article in an old Railway Modeller to build an original type wild west Pullman as used on the Midland, London and Sou'western and Brighton lines in the 1870s and 80s. I could not cut the windows out accurately and then the sides collapsed, all I have left is one end, as for the clerestory roof nothing worked and I gave up. But the bogies remain, a 10% success story, Yeh. Then I tried modifying a continental H0 Wagon-Lit coach, it's the right length and when widened slightly the right width, the windows are not correct but it gave the right impression of Pullman opulence. This worked well but over the years the roof has warped into a banana shape, due to all the added layers of plastic and glue I guess. This picture shows what happened when I tried to gently bend it straight. The grey is the original roof model. Can any one help with a technique of how to build an all new Pullman clerestory roof, with all those curves, reverse curves and detail? Edited August 31, 2018 by relaxinghobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted August 31, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2018 Hi Thanks for those thoughts. I shall look out for parts. I have almost completed the bogies, just making axlebox parts for casting in the next week. I have redrawn various parts to get them to assemble more easily and corrected a couple of stupid mistakes with the dimensions - floor was 2mm too long!! I am aiming to have etches and castings available for the Brighton Circle AGM but usually miss my deadlines so the Windmill Meeting at Blatchington more likely. Lots of transfers drawing is eating into available time. Cheers Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennisbristow Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Hi Ian, I am in the throes of rebuilding Hellifield in 0 gauge and have found out that there was in the ?1930's an old Pullman carriage similar to the one shown in your post being used as a canteen and where the cleaning ladies were "stationed". It is no longer there but I want to place it on the layout it had no bogies etc. Do you have a) a detailed drawing to scratch build one, or b) a spare one????? Ha! Ha! I add an historical photo showing it with the ladies and potted trees! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2022 That Pullman was one of the original MR cars... Now at the Midland Railway Museum. I'm not sure it survived the arson attack mind.... Drawings are available in the book on Pullmans on the Midland (But I can't remember its proper title!) Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennisbristow Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Thanks for your reply Andy, I am new to this modelling lark! even in my mid 70's. .... but I am enjoying what I am doing. Googling this subject I came across the publication you mention for sale on line, but it was £54 plus PP! so this is well out of my scope to get it I'm afraid. I shall watch for Ian's reply - hopefully! Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/the-american-pullman-cars-of-the-midland-railway/author/radford-j-b/ From £8 here! Where I always get secondhand books from! Andy G Edited February 16, 2022 by uax6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennisbristow Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Thanks Andy, I have just purchased said book!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, dennisbristow said: Hi Ian, I am in the throes of rebuilding Hellifield in 0 gauge and have found out that there was in the ?1930's an old Pullman carriage similar to the one shown in your post being used as a canteen and where the cleaning ladies were "stationed". It is no longer there but I want to place it on the layout it had no bogies etc. Do you have a) a detailed drawing to scratch build one, or b) a spare one????? Ha! Ha! I add an historical photo showing it with the ladies and potted trees! Wonderful photo! I've not come across a list of final disposal of the Midland Pulman cars but in J.B. Radford, The American Pullman Cars of the Midland Railway (Ian Allan, 1984), there's an H.C. Casserley photo of the Hellifield body, taken in 1954. Radford's caption identifies it as a "Pullman sleeping car body of early date". This photo shows that in addition to the double doors seen in your photo an additional door had been cut in the next window bay along - but possibly sealed up. Since I started typing Andy @uax6 has replied. The body at Butterley is the remains of Midland, the very first of the Pullman sleeping cars on the Midland, which was grounded as offices at Skipton. Drawings of this and other cars are in Radford's book so that's a good start. so far as I can see the Hellifield body is of the same type, so I think it must have been Midland's twin, Excelsior. Subsequent sleeping cars were slightly longer and I had a different arrangement of the compartments and hence windows - compare the Photo of Princess in Radford's book, when you get it. 3 minutes ago, dennisbristow said: Thanks Andy, I have just purchased said book!! You won't be disappointed, certainly not at that price. Modelling Hellifield, have you checked out the resources of the Midland Railway Study Centre? Just putting Hellifield into the online catalogue search turns up over 200 items including downloadable copies of original drawings of the engine shed and a 40 ft/1 in Engineer's Department plan from the 1940s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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