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Transpennine Electrification : Manchester/Leeds


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And I bet the new cost of the masts is far greater than the scrap price received.

 

The world has gone absolutely bonkers.

 

Brit15

 

Of course they are more expensive - but that doesn't matter to HM Treasury who want NR to generate cash now.

 

No different to the DfT selling off houses they bought for the A1 upgrade to motorway in North Yorkshire when that got canned around a decade or so ago - houses which they then had to buy up again 5 years later when some money was suddenly found to bring the "M1 to Newcastle" to boost infrastructure spending and help grow the economy after the 2008 recession.

 

If electrification is resumed it will most Ilkley fall under the watch of a new batch of politicians at the DfT and thus any cost increases become "somebody else's problem" - and consequently don't feature in the logic of the current inhabitants.

Edited by phil-b259
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I agree with everything that you’ve said there Phil, but please don’t use the words “DfT” and “logic” in the same sentence.

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I hope they reuse the remaining DC portals on the viaduct between Guide Bridge and Staly... (Dukinfield?)

Can't see them using the cantilevers (Y-hangers) but the retention of some genuine bulletproof furniture would be nice.

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I hope they reuse the remaining DC portals on the viaduct between Guide Bridge and Staly... (Dukinfield?)

Can't see them using the cantilevers (Y-hangers) but the retention of some genuine bulletproof furniture would be nice.

Yes, it's always seemed to me a no - brainer that that was the quickest way to electrify into Stalybridge. At the moment, the termination point is just before the bridge over Cavendish Street in Ashton-under-Lyne (it isn't Duki until you go over the river) While the portals may not be in great condition, (have they been maintained much?) it's only about another mile to Stalybridge Station from there.

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delivered into the OLE compound at collyhurst street this morning talking to foreman where he stated the huge stack of OLE masts at the bottom of the yard are going for scrap along with most of the steelwork around it what a waste

 

That’s interesting if that’s the case. I was given to understand that those masts were destined for the electrification to Stalybridge via Philips Park West Junction and Ashton-under-Lyne. That work was orginally scheduled for completion before the electrification between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge, and as far as I know although delayed has never been formally dropped by Network Rail. Unless I’ve missed the announcement, of course.

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Ahh but sending it for scrap produces a nice bit of cash in the short term - just like selling off the arches and other property over which the tracks run.

 

All very useful for trying to reduce the large hole in NR finances now that they must abide by the will of HM Treasury - who are obviously absolute geniuses when it comes to the finances.

 

The fact that these sort of measures will come back to haunt NR in future years (through having to re-purchase items at higher prices or through a lack of long term rental income) is of no concern to such 'experts', or indeed their masters who will no doubt be enjoying well paid employment elsewhere by the time the aforementioned consequences have to be faced.

The way in which the Trans-Pennine and Midland Mainline electrification cancellations have been handled is in my view criminally irresponsible and incompetent, if not insane, but definitively criminal, with no accountability. The waste of taxpayers money - for example on apprenticeship schemes as well as all the hardware and planning - is huge. Comparable with the GWML electrification but at least that delivered 3/4 of a completed project. We will regret this bitterly for a long time and HS2, even if completed eventually, will be no substitute.

 

Dava

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We seem to have lost the appetite for electrification.

 

One of the first "new wave" lines to be electrified was Wigan to Liverpool. This was done very well. My son was using the line every weekday during these works to travel from Wigan to university in Liverpool and had very few problems with cancellations / line possession time over runs etc. Liverpool Manchester was done well also. Our tatty old 319's work well - 4 coaches are luxury after a crowded 2 car nodding donkey.

 

The Manchester Bolton Preston electrification is, in my view, a complete and utter shambles (Farnworth tunnel excepted - a good job there). Preston-Blackpool has been done quite quickly and well. (different contractors ? - I don't know).

 

Sorry to say it, our railways are a joke, management / government wise. I feel sorry for our rail workers who have to put up with such managerial incompetence on a daily basis.

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
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The fact that these sort of measures will come back to haunt NR in future years (through having to re-purchase items at higher prices or through a lack of long term rental income) is of no concern to such 'experts', or indeed their masters who will no doubt be enjoying well paid employment elsewhere by the time the aforementioned consequences have to be faced.

It was so much easier in my day. When we were told to reduce the stock holding of the stores, that which was deemed surplus was written off and supposedly binned. Anything we thought was of future use was loaded into our 12T box vans and labelled to another depot with a siding. They held the wagons for us until the coast was clear then labelled them back.

 

We ran a barter system between ourselves to keep the job running when there were failures of archaic equipment supposedly no longer available and exchanging surplus equipment from new works jobs. It even extended to the contractors and London Underground. 

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That’s interesting if that’s the case. I was given to understand that those masts were destined for the electrification to Stalybridge via Philips Park West Junction and Ashton-under-Lyne. That work was orginally scheduled for completion before the electrification between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge, and as far as I know although delayed has never been formally dropped by Network Rail. Unless I’ve missed the announcement, of course.

 

The scope was cut back to Victoria-Miles Platting a little while back, any wiring through to Stalybridge would presumably now be covered by the Transpennine Upgrade - I gather this section, if upgraded, offers some relatively low-hanging fruit for cutting the journey time between Manchester and Leeds which may have influenced the decision?

Edited by Christopher125
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The scope was cut back to Victoria-Miles Platting a little while back, any wiring through to Stalybridge would presumably now be covered by the Transpennine Upgrade - I gather this section, if upgraded, offers some relatively low-hanging fruit for cutting the journey time between Manchester and Leeds which may have influenced the decision?

From what I read elsewhere it's been cut back even further and most or all of the structures have already been erected up to the current planned limit.  Which means that even with bi-modes part, at least, of the bank up to Miles Platting will have to be run on diesel power.  Because of the need to warm up the engine and be sure it is working properly it will probably be started under the low roof of the Victoria through platforms. 

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The class 88's were supposed to replace 68's on the loco hauled TPEx services once the electrification work was completed.

The way things are going, I suspect the 68's and Mk5 / Nova 3 stock, will, at some stage, be banished to Scotrail or somewhere and the bi-mode units will take their place, with the trans-Pennine franchise being financially adjusted and restructured to take into account the cuts and NR's change of plans.

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I believe the bidders for the current Transpennine franchise were told not to expect significant extra electrification to be in place during the franchise term and would have ordered stock on that basis.  The Nova 3s are intended for Scarborough and Middlesbrough workings which don't spend much time under the wires, and nor do the remaining 185s which will work between Manchester and Leeds or Hull and on the South Transpennine.  I assume these are leased until the end of the franchise as is standard practice.  Bidders for the next franchise, starting around 2022, will have a new set of assumptions on electrification and may choose to lease the same or different fleets.  But it's highly unlikely the mix of trains will change from what is currently on order until then. 

Edited by Edwin_m
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I have just tried to read and understand the latest situation as regards HS2 Phase 2B and the Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) strategy intentions, the latter of which seems highly dependent on the former. It would appear that Phase 2B has been put back for consideration of the Hybrid Bill to mid-2020, and the much lauded TfN strategy which covers this, which was due by now, has had no updates since consultation finished many months ago.

 

The NPR proposals still appear to include some significant stretches of new lines, between Leeds and Manchester, and Manchester Airport and Liverpool. https://transportforthenorth.com/northern-powerhouse-rail/

 

Has anyone seen anything more recent?

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I have just tried to read and understand the latest situation as regards HS2 Phase 2B and the Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) strategy intentions, the latter of which seems highly dependent on the former. It would appear that Phase 2B has been put back for consideration of the Hybrid Bill to mid-2020, and the much lauded TfN strategy which covers this, which was due by now, has had no updates since consultation finished many months ago.

 

The NPR proposals still appear to include some significant stretches of new lines, between Leeds and Manchester, and Manchester Airport and Liverpool. https://transportforthenorth.com/northern-powerhouse-rail/

 

Has anyone seen anything more recent?

As far as I know nothing official has been published.  I believe the deferment of the Hybrid Bill is to allow HS2 phase 2 to be better integrated with NPR, such as by providing for junctions in the locations hinted at by the map on the link. 

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I've seen nothing recently Mike apart from the putting back of the HS2 2b proposal. I believe that there is a much delayed statement due from Mr Grayling about the future of the Transpennine lines and was expecting something to have been announced by now. So we are no further forward it seems.

 

Jamie

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The UK budget statement is tomorrow so that may bring further announcements, either 'good news' of new investments or retrenchment & delays being slipped out. Wait & see...

 

OK I got the date wrong, its Monday 29 Oct! So 'Spreadsheet Phil' has a few more days to find, cut, invent & respend our money....

Edited by Dava
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Take a look at the way that most countries in Europe are putting up the wires on most major and some minor lines as they realise that subject to renewing the power cables it's a long term investment.

 

I remember in the 1980's when the Leeds line was being electrified many of the residents of Bradford had a petition to electrify to there.  They got it but not where they expected.

 

Just think how much of the Newcastle to Manchester airport is wired and a dual mode train could be running on the juice for quite a lot of the journey.

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8 hours ago, peanuts said:

noticed today tree clearance and work going on around the bridge to the atochem siding at stalybridge .new scafolding underneath on  the road below any ideas 

 

They have installed a new footbridge, over Clarence Street, parallel to the running lines.

I can only assume that this is to be used by line side workers only.

 

 

Kev.

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Not strictly Manchester-Leeds, but I went into Manchester, from Newton for Hyde station, yesterday afternoon. The platforms at Flowery Field station have been extended, but what was much more interesting was that there has been some vegetation clearance on the site of Dewsnap Yard; the 4-doll signal (minus arms) which had been hiding in the undergrowth is now visible. The clearance extends from the White Bridge down to around Guide Bridge East Junction. Anyone know why?

 

Edited by 62613
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29 minutes ago, Edwin_m said:

There was some talk of EMU stabling around Guide Bridge but I haven't heard anything for a few years. 

With the new Northern units arriving they will need stabling and maintenance facilities for them as presumably Ardwick is only for Siemens stock.

 

Jamie

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