Transpennine Upgrade : Manchester/Leeds

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Thinking out loud, Close Neville Hill, build a new servicing depot at Healy Mills, the money made from selling the land at Neville Hill, would pay for the new depot at Healy Mills, with some left over !

 

manna

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

When I used to travel from Manchester to York, most of the trains were 8 coaches long. Back then there were extensive carriage sidings on Redbank seen in the distance. 

 

Mike Wiltshire

And the 45 is actually passing Newtown coach sidings, or the remains of them, on it's way up the bank.

 

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

IIRC Red Bank carriage sidings were on the Manchester Loop which has long since been lifted.

The last time I was on a Manchester to York train was made up of two 185 units, I think.

Correct, the empty stock visible in the background just to the right of the cab is Red Bank.  That whole area was lifted when Victoria was remodelled as there was no need to stable stock there any longer, the eastern side of the route also later went over to Metrolink.

 

I found this document from 2018 by NR who were checking whether the Red Bank land or nearby Oldham Road Goods route could offer any stabling for Northern Hub or if the land should be released to the council for housing - they recommended the latter, neither site offered any benefit for stabling stock for trains out of both Victoria and Piccadilly without major remodelling at Victoria or impacting paths over the Ordsall curve and the restrictive pathing to platforms 13/14 at Piccadilly.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/media/14638/download

[Mike Storey]

16 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Beyond Holbeck, what is wrong with the sidings at Hunslet?  They seem to be used by Freightliner for storing (largely redundant) coal hoppers and are easily long enough to fit a depot for full length trains.  It would mean the empty stock movements running on the quietest(?) route out of Leeds.

 

It certainly would be a good replacement site. Unfortunately, the current plans show HS2 Phase 2b going bang right through it. That may change of course, with the current re-evaluation in connection with NPR, but it is hard to see an alternative route through South Leeds at this juncture.

[kevpeo]

Small steps in the West -

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/piling-work-signals-welcome-start-of-trans-pennine-route-upgrade-electrification-26-04-2021/?tkn=1

 

This whole scheme seems to be very 'bitty' at the moment. Kev.

[jamie92208]

It might well be worthwhile visiting Colton Junction this weekend, according to the April project tracker there is OHLE eqipment being erected this week at night.  Is this electrification  by stealth?

Jamie

[SHMD]

I've just come through Miles Platting (13:23 Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge) and I saw no piling!

Although I was busy trying to focus on the works for easing the curve at Mills Platting.

 

The report, that kevpeo links to, shows a Piling going in half way up Platting bank just in front of the MetroLink tunnel entrance.

 

Meanwhile, at the Queens road bridge renewal. . .

 

Not long for this bridge now.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that is a flange lubricator, (and not a Piling), in this view looking back towards Manchester.

 

At Stalybridge, it looks like some new mast positions have been marked out in new wood forming a square with ballast inside.

(The older squares of wood are still around.)

 

 

Kev.

 

[Coach bogie]

Just to show how much room they have to ease the junction. They have the width of four tracks and two platforms to play with. Here is Lion (as it is popular on other threads at the moment) in 1980, travelling on the platform lines. The freight lines are shown here, still in use and signalled from Miles Platting box in the distance.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Edwin_m]

41 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

Just to show how much room they have to ease the junction. They have the width of four tracks and two platforms to play with. Here is Lion (as it is popular on other threads at the moment) in 1980, travelling on the platform lines. The freight lines are shown here, still in use and signalled from Miles Platting box in the distance.

 

Mike Wiltshire

However, looking at an aerial view I think that to use the footprint of the freight lines without also re-aligning the track over at least one of the bridges either end, they'd actually have to tighten the radius at the extreme ends of the curve.  I know they're widening the Queens Road bridge (Victoria end) which is the more severe constraint.  Not sure about Oldham Road bridge though.  

[Mike Storey]

On 27/04/2021 at 13:27, kevpeo said:

Small steps in the West -

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/piling-work-signals-welcome-start-of-trans-pennine-route-upgrade-electrification-26-04-2021/?tkn=1

 

This whole scheme seems to be very 'bitty' at the moment. Kev.

 

Not sure why the NCE reports this is a "welcome start" when many previous activities we have seen, listed even on this thread, could have been entitled with that nomenclature. What is more obvious, is that the c.£500 million already earmarked, will not be enough to complete even this modest upgrade. We have seen the furtive electrification scheme east of Leeds / west of York. There is scant indication of when or how much additional funds will be required, or provided, to complete, whatever "it" is.

 

In other words, what is the TP Upgrade, and what is the NPR? How many additional committees/extra layers of local government/NGO's/ someone making a decision in the DfT/Treasury does it take? Does Mr Shapps know but does not want to say?

[jamie92208]

I've just looked at the Network rail site re the York to Church Fenton 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/York2CF

 

The May work program is now listed and it looks like they are out nearly every night putting up masts and the small steelwork all along the stretch.

 

Jamie

 

[Mike Storey]

On 30/04/2021 at 13:59, jamie92208 said:

I've just looked at the Network rail site re the York to Church Fenton 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/York2CF

 

The May work program is now listed and it looks like they are out nearly every night putting up masts and the small steelwork all along the stretch.

 

Jamie

 

 

Thank you Jamie - very useful and explains a lot (except how this got authorised in the first place!!).

[jamie92208]

28 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Thank you Jamie - very useful and explains a lot (except how this got authorised in the first place!!).

I've just done a bit of googling and thiscpopped up.

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2020/W26/729612495

Reading between the lines it looms as if some call off contracts were signed in 2014 after the originsl authorisation and they have now gone live. However interpreting this sort of documentbis not my speciality so I am quite happy to be corrected.  I still think thst we will find a grid connection has been built near Church Fenton, under the original contract and someone has made a sensible decision to put wires up from there to York to feed into the ECML rather than run a 25kv feeder.  

 

Jamie

[Mike Storey]

This is from February, so may be out of date, but I have seen nothing announced about additional funding (apart from the T&W Orders and this £17m call-off project award for Colton to Church Fenton).

 

http://www.transport-network.co.uk/article/17133#

 

There is also a warning that £1 billion has been slashed from NR's CP6 Enhancements settlement, which is being interpreted as stringing out the Trans-Pennine route upgrade well beyond 2024.

[Coach bogie]

I was at the ex Droylsden junction between Miles Platting and Stalybridge yesterday and there is no sign of any mast work yet. Colour light courtesy of the Ashton Moss North reorganisation. Before resignalling, it was a semaphore distant.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

[jamie92208]

I have just watched the Look North Leeds BBC news and apparently some funding has been released for two new stations at White Rose and Thorpe Park, both on the core Trans Pennine York Manchester Route. The presenter also mentioned electrification between York and Leeds around Church Fenton.  Grant Shapps is now trying to tell us about these plans but having to talk about Cummings and Covid.  We may get more clarity later today as apparently Shapps is due to give some evidence to the Transport Select Committee later today. I will not hold my breath.

 

Jamie

[Gordon Connell]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I have just watched the Look North Leeds BBC news and apparently some funding has been released for two new stations at White Rose and Thorpe Park, both on the core Trans Pennine York Manchester Route. The presenter also mentioned electrification between York and Leeds around Church Fenton.  Grant Shapps is now trying to tell us about these plans but having to talk about Cummings and Covid.  We may get more clarity later today as apparently Shapps is due to give some evidence to the Transport Select Committee later today. I will not hold my breath.

 

Jamie

 

As reported on the BBC website: Government announce £401m boost for rail services - BBC News

[62613]

Isn't this the third time that these upgrades have been announced? I seem to recall that we were going to get a railway fully electrified between Liverpool and York by the start of the December 2019 timetable; then there was the £590 million allocation announced by Shapps a couple of years ago, and on which physical work has, in some places, already started? Not counting the road bridge work in Ashton-under-Lyne after the first announcement?

Edited May 26, 2021 by 62613

[4630]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I have just watched the Look North Leeds BBC news and apparently some funding has been released for two new stations at White Rose and Thorpe Park, both on the core Trans Pennine York Manchester Route.

 

As you probably know Jamie, both of those new stations have been promoted and planned by Leeds City Council and West Yorkshire Combined Authority for some years, so it's positive news that both have now reached the stage where funding has been released.

 

I seem to recall that once White Rose has been built and opened, that the nearby station to the east at Cottingley is to be closed.

[jamie92208]

37 minutes ago, Gordon Connell said:

 

As reported on the BBC website: Government announce £401m boost for rail services - BBC News

Yes, it does only say York to Church Fenton in the announcement plus some unspecified amount of doubling between Leeds and Huddersfield.  It also seems to be a a classic tactic of trying to deflect a bad news day with Cummings by announcing something good. Perhaps I'm being a tad cynical which is hard to believe in one so young.

 

Jamie

[AMJ]

When I was at Ravensthorpe station over May BH there were NR notices on the fence indicating that the station is going to be relocated west of the road bridge and junction which could enable Wakefield trains to add it.  This is part of the increasing track capacity between Leeds-Huddersfield.

 

[31A]

1 hour ago, 62613 said:

Isn't this the third time that these upgrades have been announced? I seem to recall that we were going to get a railway fully electrified between Liverpool and York by the start of the December 2019 timetable; then there was the £590 million allocation announced by Shapps a couple of years ago, and on which physical work has, in some places, already started? Not counting the road bridge work in Ashton-under-Lyne after the first announcement?

 

Trying not to get political, but it seems to be a common ploy amongst politicians these days to keep announcing the same thing repeatedly in the hope that people will think they actually are doing something new!

 

[jamie92208]

29 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Trying not to get political, but it seems to be a common ploy amongst politicians these days to keep announcing the same thing repeatedly in the hope that people will think they actually are doing something new!

 

It's particularly  obvious now as NR have been issuing detailed updates on the progress of the Elelectrification to Church Fenton for several months and as this thread has demonstrated  the work is well advanced.  Somehow I am not surprised. One of my favourite quotes from a Ton Clancy book is when the newly arrived President Ryan asks his Chief of staff why politicians do corrupt things.  The reply was "When a dog p1sses on a lamp post it's just being a dog."

Maybe we get twice as much for our money if it's announced twice.

 

Jamie

Edited May 26, 2021 by jamie92208

[ess1uk]

On 04/04/2021 at 13:01, jamie92208 said:

I suppose that part of it is to keep the teams and expertise alive.
The main reason for Market Harborough is to connect up to the feeder station at Bessbrook. 

 

Jamie

Bessbrook is in Northern Ireland.

you mean Braybrooke

Edited May 27, 2021 by ess1uk
Auto incorrect

[jamie92208]

14 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

Bessbrook is in Northern Ireland.

you mean Braybrooke

That would have needed a rather long feder cable. Thanks I've corrected it..

 

Jamie

Edited May 27, 2021 by jamie92208

[ess1uk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57246461
so what’s new here?