Chrislock Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 It was suggested a while back that I should move these occasional updates on my modest layout under the 2FS umbrella, so I hope noone minds - not that I have done much on it for a while due to a distraction or two. Anyway here is a photo of a short coal train leaving Glenfield tunnel, which shows the west end of the layout as it is thus far. In case you are not aware, Glenfield was the first station on the old single tracked Swannington Line from Leicester West Bridge to Ashby-de-la-Zouche, which was taken over by the Midland Railway in 1845. Sadly it no longer exists, which has made fact finding something of a challenge, but the layout is in most parts accurate, i think, apart from the actual length of the layout! A double framed engine never ran on this line as far as I am aware, especially 229 which was based at Nottingham. The line was usually run by a Class 2 in MR days, an engine small enough to get through the narrow tunnel. However certain artistic licenses have been taken, .and in any case the tunnel has had to be made wider to take the Union Mills tenders which power my engines... Regards, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham R Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi Chris, Thanks for posting here, I'm not very good at RMweb orienteering, and hadn't found your thread before. I've just spent a pleasurable hour reading your previous postings for the first time... I will certainly be following you in future, and drawing inspiration accordingly ! Out of interest, what controller do you use? Apologies if you covered it before. regards Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted November 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hi Chris, welcome to 2mm corner. The Kirtley looks great. One of those is high on my list of locos to build for Bath - it should be black by my early 1920's period but I think I may use some license and paint it red. Keep the pictures coming. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 The umbrella must work. It looks really sunny Looking forward to further updates, and maybe seeing it in the flesh at an association outing in the not too distant future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted November 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2011 Looking very good especially the Kirtley. I am right in thinking these may have been green at some time, or was that pre-Kirtley? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Answers: The green period was used up until the mid 1880s,then was replaced by red. I think these were lined out prior to 1900, After the war they were painted black, as Jerry points out. No 229 was one of a very few which ran with the Johnson style tender, though I had to cut the UM version down a great deal so that it didn't dwarf the engine itself. I don't have any intentions of exhibiting this little layout, which has been done purely for my own indulgence. Maybe my next one... I have plans to DCC the layout ( it is actually more or less wired for that), but at present it is running on a little gaugemaster Combi ! As the line was one engine in steam, it doesn't really affect its operation - though I have yet to construct the cassettes for either end of the board, so it isn't really operational as such. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heruss Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi Chris, just found this little thread part of yours. There were in fact four or so locomotives kept specifically for the Glenfield line right up until the late fifties based at Coalville shed, traffic was handled exclusively by Johnsons 2Fs (passenger or goods) due to being small enough to handle the narrow Glenfield Tunnel. Confirmed numbers under BR that used the branch line were 58143, 58182 and 58148. 58138 and 58163 were also based at Coalville, but wether they ran on the Glenfield branch I do not know. In later years the traffic was handled by a Standard Class 2 "mickey mouse" who's cab was specially lowered for use in the tunnel. Midland railway era locomotives were also 2Fs with 3118 and 3161 being a pair of locomotives used on the line. It also appears that Johnsons 1F 0-6-0 no. 1830 was also present on the line. Have you made any moves to build the coaching stock that was designed especially for the narrow tunnel or will you use some sort of North Staffordshire Railway stock instead? Oh, and on top of that the map of Glenfield I have does seem to show you've done a bang up job, well done! I take it space issues have meant you couldn't model the L&S cottage that stood by the Leicester tunnel portal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2012 Not forgetting the class 25 too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heruss Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Rats definitely handled the back end of traffic on the Swadlincote loop line when it was truncated due to the degrading state of the Midway and Woodville tunnels and they had to treat them like two seperate branchlines (A Rat with the demolition train was the last to travel the whole line) Not 100% sure if they'd have fit in the Glenfield tunnel without a series of loud bangs though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Bang... banng... ouch! Hi Heruss, thanks for your contribution to this little thread. I have to say I still haven't got on with the grass, trees and other bits I need to do. Nor have I made hard decisions about the use of that curved siding - I don't suppose you can throw light on that? The cottage was the Leicester end of the tunnel from what I can see, so no I haven't. Nor have I modelled the little hut or the tunnel gates which were attached to keep curious locals out! I have had a few encouraging comments about the overall look of the place. I do wish it had been possible to add an extra foot or two to the tunnel approach, but otherwise I am fairly happy. Of course, few of my MR engines should run on it,... Thanks for the info about engines on shed at Coaville. All I have carriage-wise at present are a few rewheeled ( and oversized) Graham Farish 4 wheelers, drafted in as emergency stock! I'm not sure I want to build line-specific stuff, as I have plans for another, grander MR layout at some point. cheers Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heruss Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Afraid to say I am not 100% sure! My own books on the matter simply refer to it as a "The old pattern rails and chairs on an extremely sharply-curved private siding in a small yard are worth inspection." Which suggests to me that, whatever it was used for, it used original L&SR chairs and rails until the line's removal. Because of its extreme angle I am wondering if its at all related to the needs of a Mr E. Childs and the stone traffic... but again I am not sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Interesting, because in my correspondence with Nelson Twells one of the suggestions was some kind of stone wharf - but why there at Glenfield - and why a curved siding? Another suggestion was a gunpowder platform and shed, linked t the quarrying roundabout - and just down the line at Ratby. The third suggestion was it might be simply a spur - in which case, why so much landscaping to fit it in? That siding is one of two aspects proving elusive, the other being the arrangement of yard buildings opposite the station platform. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If you can get hold of an old appendix to the working timetables for the area you might find some special instructions relating to the operation of goods trains at the station. This might give a clue as to the purpose of the siding. If it is tightly-curved there might be restrictions on what could be run on it, for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 There were in fact four or so locomotives kept specifically for the Glenfield line right up until the late fifties based at Coalville shed, traffic was handled exclusively by Johnsons 2Fs (passenger or goods) due to being small enough to handle the narrow Glenfield Tunnel. Confirmed numbers under BR that used the branch line were 58143, 58182 and 58148. 58138 and 58163 were also based at Coalville, but wether they ran on the Glenfield branch I do not know. In later years the traffic was handled by a Standard Class 2 "mickey mouse" who's cab was specially lowered for use in the tunnel. Midland railway era locomotives were also 2Fs with 3118 and 3161 being a pair of locomotives used on the line. It also appears that Johnsons 1F 0-6-0 no. 1830 was also present on the line. A few more confirmed BR-era Glenfield 2F sightings based on photographic evidence, with dates of photos: unrenumbered LMS 3229 (1948), BR 58246 (1956), 58298 (c1958/9), 58247 (c1951), 58163 (1959), 58214 (1961), 58305 (1960), 58209 (REC Railtour, 1957, so possibly a visitor?). 58143, 58148 and 58298 in particular seem to star in a lot of published photos of the line. There were a pair of Standard Class 2s used- 78028 and 78013. Looking back to the Midland era, I can definitely confirm the half-cab 0-6-0T No 1830- a photograph of it standing outside the engine shed at West Bridge c.1904 appears in a couple of books Afraid to say I am not 100% sure! My own books on the matter simply refer to it as a "The old pattern rails and chairs on an extremely sharply-curved private siding in a small yard are worth inspection." Which suggests to me that, whatever it was used for, it used original L&SR chairs and rails until the line's removal. Because of its extreme angle I am wondering if its at all related to the needs of a Mr E. Childs and the stone traffic... but again I am not sure. Interesting, because in my correspondence with Nelson Twells one of the suggestions was some kind of stone wharf - but why there at Glenfield - and why a curved siding? Another suggestion was a gunpowder platform and shed, linked t the quarrying roundabout - and just down the line at Ratby. The third suggestion was it might be simply a spur - in which case, why so much landscaping to fit it in? That siding is one of two aspects proving elusive, the other being the arrangement of yard buildings opposite the station platform. Chris Yes, that siding has puzzled me for a while. I don't have a copy of the original MR plans of the site, but a 1960's 1:10000 OS map I'm currently looking at clearly omits it- Could it have been lifted before the demise of the branch? I've wondered about Mr Childs' stone dock as well- If you've corresponded with Nelson Twells, I suspect you already know this, but for the benefit of others, .in his 1985 book on the Leicester-Burton line, he describes this as: In July 1932 there was the prospect of considerably increased stone traffic, and a proposal from Mr E. Childs for a tipping dock siding to be provided so that stone from the Bradgate Hill Quarry could be carried by rail....However, in February 1933, the trader said he could no longer proceed with the arrangement because of a depression in the roadstone trade' You really have done a great job with the layout- it definitely captures the atmosphere of Glenfield compared with the pics I've seen over the last few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 I have a 2 chain plan which I photographed at the Midland Railway Centre at Derby last year. You can see the curved siding and that a store is marked - hence the speculation about powder for quarrying, especially given it distance from the station. It could also be interpreted as a dock plus store of some kind. PM me if you'd like a copy. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heruss Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 We could also speculate both theories. A tipping dock and a gunpowder store... after all with a limited area like Glenfield one would try and combine the two. By 1960 I beleive a lot of disused sidings were being lifted. (in fact according to my own sources this happened across the line, hence the loss of the siding into the gas works by the late 50's in Swadlincote) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Well it's worth noting that anything taken off at such a dock would have to be transported back along the line/yard as there is no other access.than the entrance by the toll house cottage. I think that rules out livestock and a stone wharf. There is no evidence of a quarry beyond of the siding though the plan suggests there might have been. I've had my scout out to look! While I have temporarily placed buildings at these 2 points of mystery, I the layout will not feel quite complete until I know the whole story... I had thought of taking the cop-out and renaming it Millerfield! ( Cue: In the Mood..!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If there is no easy access from the road, that almost suggests a PW siding - access by rail only and well away from thieving eyes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Sorry - PW? You've got me there... By the way, any ideas where I might copies of the working timetables for Glenfield? I can onlythink of the Midland Railway archive at Derby Silk Mill. Cheers Chris If there is no easy access from the road, that almost suggests a PW siding - access by rail only and well away from thieving eyes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 PW siding = railway company engineers permanent way siding - used by the people that maintain the track and railway infrastructure. As for WTTs I have no idea about MR info - there is a study centre at the Silk Mill in Derby as you suggest, but Kew, the NRM, HMRS, Midland Railway Society etc may all be able to help. Look for early LMS ones too, as working practices lasted a long time. It is actually the appendices to the WTTs that you would need, not the WTTs themselves. These are normally separate publications. I guess the WTTs change frequently, whereas the appendices don't, so they were normally printed as separate books. The Appendices normally cover a large area, potentially the whole of the Midland Railway. They list each line in turn with stations, junctions etc. that require special notes about operation - like information about operating private sidings and the like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Cheers for that. I am a member of the HMRS and the MRS so will put out enquiries. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Chris, An undated LMS WTT from Nelson Twells' book "A Pictorial Record of the Leicester and Burton Branch Railway" (1985) gives the following: Weekdays Only UP Trains Desford Jn dep 12.20pm (Empties) Groby 12.30-12.40pm West Bridge arr 12.55pm Desford Jn dep 3.25pm (Mineral) Ratby 3.35-3.50pm West Bridge arr 4.05pm Desford Jn dep 5.50pm (Empties) West Bridge arr 6.40pm DOWN Trains West Bridge dep 0.40am (Empties) Desford Jn arr 1.10am West Bridge dep 2.00pm (Empties) Glenfield 2.20-2.50pm Desford Jn arr 3.05pm West Bridge dep 4.30pm (Stopping freight) Groby 4.45-5.15pm Desford Jn arr 5.30pm Regards, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted February 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2012 Midland Railway October 1922 working timetable for passenger trains gives: Weekdays Desford 8.25am 2.08pm Desford Junc 8.27 2.10 Ratby 8.33 2.16 Glenfield 8.39 2.22 West Bridge 8.45 2.28 Note : Arrival at both Ratby and Glenfield is 2 minutes before the departure time shown for both down trains West Bridge 1.00pm 5.30pm Glenfield 1.08 5.39 Ratby 1.14 5.45 Desford Junc 1.17 5.48 Desford 1.19 5.50 Notes 1pm train arrives at Ratby 2 minutes before departure time shown 5.30pmTrain arrives at Ratby and Glenfield 2 minutes before departure time shown At Desford Junction both up trains are denoted by an *, the notes say "Stops to shunt for or to follow other trains, or for staff or tablet" Both Desford Junctioon and West Bridge are denoted as "Staff station". There was no Sunday service. Hope this of interest. David PS Sorry about the formatting - it looks nothing like it did when I typed it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted February 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2012 In July to September 1903 the public passenger timetable gives: The 1pm is Sat excepted and the 1.15pm isSat only Leicester West Bridge 9.00am 1.00pm 1.15pm 5.30pm Glenfield 9.08 1.08 1.23 5.38 Ratby 9.14 1.14 1.29 5.44 Desford 9.20 1.20 1.35 5.50 The 2.05pm is Sat excepted and the 2.15pm is Sat only Desford 8.30am 2.05pm 2.15pm 7.05pm Ratby 8.37 2.12 2.22 7.12 Glenfield 8.43 2.18 2.28 7.18 Leicester West Bridge 8.50 2.25 2.35 7.25 This is from one of the timetables reprinted by Ian Allan back in the late60s/early70s. This requires 2 sets of passenger stock. Again sorry about the formatting. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Peter thanks for that. I have the Twells book but haven't delved into it recently so forgot it had a timetable on page 40 Very useful detail David if I ever get it operational and running to a timetable sequence... I really need to find out about pick up goods movements now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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